(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[patryn33]

Well its not about comparing the circuit design per se. Its not like high end audio where circuit design can have an effect on the sound. more of the the workmanship and quality components.

Here are some tips:
1. Look at the boiler and compare. lead free brass, stainless steel, chrome plated. large stainless steel boilers cost more. apparently less prone to scaling.

2. Group. VBM has done alot of testing with theirs for temp stability. I'm not saying VBM makes the bestest or the most solid group ever but at least you can be assured some testing is done and its not just a copy with some parts shaved off to save costs. Look at the chrome plating too. The group and portafilter will be one of those parts that will experience alot of wear and tear at the mating surfaces. which one is over engineered for structural stability? 1mm of thickness can make a world of difference. for E-61 check out the thermosyphon design. does it overheat at idle (i'm not taking about the HX), or does it maintain stable temps after reaching a good set point?
Is your HX design a dragon, mixer or agnostic? I really feel this is very important to know esp if you want to explore different roasts. If you vendor doesn't know...well then he doesn't know his product very well.

3. pressurestat. some are better than others. tighter dead band and reliability. compare jaeger and sirai and MATER.

4. Chassis. any flex when you lock in the portafiler. how is the boiler and pump mounted on the chassis. Some brands used to have a flexing problem. (alex i think). Vibrations? loose panels? sharp drip trays?

5. Wiring and layout. examine the wiring, soldering. If inside is a total mess then likely the machine is not well made and will present a headache when doing repairs. Are wires directly touching the boilers? Is the power control unit, PIDs and other electronics (volumetric brewing etc etc) isolated far from the boiler? Will there be a problem over time when the electronics are exposed to boiler heat?

6. Are things that you need to adjust easy to access? Do you need to remove all the panels and find some hard to reach screw to turn? or is everything within easy access? (OPV, Rotary pump pressure, pressurestat, pid,) Whether need to adjust or not for new machines wearing in really depends on luck. Some do some don't. My guess is most do. Pressure stat almost definitely. What to adjust depends on what machine you have. settings are likely to drift from default factory settings. if it changes to much eg boiler pressure or brew pressure then its really a good idea to adjust it back to factory settings.

Sure some settings are easily googled. but still very difficult to do, like rancilio silvia opv adjustments to get correct brew pressure...

Circuit design may not affect functionality but can affect longevity of system, stress over time or in the circuit breaker trip due to a surge.

1: how to tell lead free brass?

2: this is hard stuff! How to compare chrome plating? Sound like need to bring a micrometer to measure different parts of machine.
Design of this and that? Which is better? Seller tell u that but if the baby is open and cannot tell the diff and seller said the wrong thing how? BS sales person can talk techie exist out there.

3. This also hard. Ppl need to study and understand this! Put college degree to good use!
http://web.applied.com/base.cfm?page_id=4492

5. Agree messy wiring is a headache come to repair but messy wire does not mean poorly made product. How far away from heat source is recommended, need to pull data sheet to understand each electronic parts heat tolerance behavior!

Just by these few stuff, I felt one already master enough to buy parts and assemble your own machine. No need to buy mass produce ones. This buying experience is intimidating for me if one really study so much and zero down the comparison

 

[patryn33]

No wonder the name and logo so familiar.

I saw the Quickmill shop in Bangkok last yr, not far from my hotel.
Inside there's an Italian guy, Mr. Giampiero Feletti, very nice and knowledgeable guy. He actually gave me his card.

I think most of his range are E61.
He says he only has Quickmill because all E61 works essentially delivers the same result so did not bother paying more premium for more expensive brands.

Most places outside EU only carry their E61 units.
I nearly got myself a quick mill, missed a deal that could save me usd$500.

 

[sohzai]

Wow! Thanks for your replies! Guess we have some really technical advice. But patryn has a point. It may be too technical for a buyer in general. We are after all not that we'll equipped to find out some information. All advice Is appreciated nevertheless

I feel, the main 3 models I am looking at (domobar junior, magica and anita) are all pretty well made, at least based on Chris coffee's videos on them. He shows internal and specific parts. Now more of local support, brand preference plus some minor differences, AND budget! Thanks patryn for alerting me about quick mill. I did ask about them in smitten 2 years ago, but have forgotten all about them.

Anyone knows the last known price of anita at necessary provision? They are closed for 2 weeks.

By the way, noticed members like to keep asking about grinder when I am focusing on machine purchase now. We all know importance of it, me too. I ordered a ROK grinder. If it is not good enough, then I will get the necessary. But I think it wouldn't disappoint.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Wow! Thanks for your replies! Guess we have some really technical advice. But patryn has a point. It may be too technical for a buyer in general. We are after all not that we'll equipped to find out some information. All advice Is appreciated nevertheless

I feel, the main 3 models I am looking at (domobar junior, magica and anita) are all pretty well made, at least based on Chris coffee's videos on them. He shows internal and specific parts. Now more of local support, brand preference plus some minor differences, AND budget! Thanks patryn for alerting me about quick mill. I did ask about them in smitten 2 years ago, but have forgotten all about them.

Anyone knows the last known price of anita at necessary provision? They are closed for 2 weeks.

By the way, noticed members like to keep asking about grinder when I am focusing on machine purchase now. We all know importance of it, me too. I ordered a ROK grinder. If it is not good enough, then I will get the necessary. But I think it wouldn't disappoint.

Some of the tech stuff can be found online on forums. So don't really need the tech knowledge to examine the machine so much, can also rely on what others already know about the specs of the machine and see what is important to you.

just curious why a e61? May want to add Rocket to your list too. Very similar machines and chye seng huat is well equipped to service them.

Welcome to the hand grind club. Do let us know how does the ROK performs!

 

[sohzai]

Welcome to the hand grind club. Do let us know how does the ROK performs!

Lol! I am always been pro-hand grind. Up till now have only been using hario skerton and slim. But machine change will no longer allow me to accept their inconsistencies. Thus the ROK.

Anyone else ordered it here?

 

[Sylar22]

Lol! I am always been pro-hand grind. Up till now have only been using hario skerton and slim. But machine change will no longer allow me to accept their inconsistencies. Thus the ROK.

Anyone else ordered it here?

Me!! It has been a very long wait since December! The hario skerton is too much of a hassle to use in the morning when you are rushing for work. Too many revolution and takes too long for a 16g dose.

 

[sayang_pillow]

wa this thread so chim,...got time i will reread from page 1.

 

[The_King]

wa this thread so chim,...got time i will reread from page 1.

i give up after a while, me just a layman trying to save money by making my own fresh espresso and latte(after it gone stale).


try it, you enjoy it

 

[patryn33]

i give up after a while, me just a layman trying to save money by making my own fresh espresso and latte(after it gone stale).


try it, you enjoy it

interesting u use stale beans for latte, some wouldnt use it but use it for frech press or chemex.

 

[CTBR]

interesting u use stale beans for latte, some wouldnt use it but use it for frech press or chemex.

Well the power of covering up anything with milk worked for starbucks, so why not stale beans

 

[derazor]

Define stale?

Since we use 250gm, packs most of the time between 10 to 14 days sure finish.

 

[sohzai]

Me!! It has been a very long wait since December! The hario skerton is too much of a hassle to use in the morning when you are rushing for work. Too many revolution and takes too long for a 16g dose.

Lol! Yeah...hope they ship soon, and that it gives good grind with lesser effort. HG One would be nice, but footprint and cost is abit too much for me.

 

[sohzai]

Well the power of covering up anything with milk worked for starbucks, so why not stale beans

Starbucks don't cover it with milk. They use more flavouring than anything else. The 'baristas' can't even make a proper hot coffee. Don't blame them though, salary is super low and there is no proper training.

 

[CTBR]

Starbucks don't cover it with milk. They use more flavouring than anything else. The 'baristas' can't even make a proper hot coffee. Don't blame them though, salary is super low and there is no proper training.

Yes, syrup and milk to mask the over roasted coffee beans. I'm not blaming the baristas, they were trained that way for the sake of "consistency".

 

[The_King]

interesting u use stale beans for latte, some wouldnt use it but use it for frech press or chemex.

i still can taste the different using fresh bean for latte vs stale bean for latte.

it lack the body, the acidity

hey better then nothing.

my french press have retired.

unless i need it for cold brew

 

[patryn33]

Lol! Yeah...hope they ship soon, and that it gives good grind with lesser effort. HG One would be nice, but footprint and cost is abit too much for me.

Hg one is the best! Foot print no issue for me, cost is.

 

[patryn33]

Define stale?

Since we use 250gm, packs most of the time between 10 to 14 days sure finish.

You may use 250gm others maybe use larger size.
Some ppl even buy lavazza from taobao and swear by their product.

I agree 250gm should have no issue finishing it within 2 weeks

 

[patryn33]

Starbucks don't cover it with milk. They use more flavouring than anything else. The 'baristas' can't even make a proper hot coffee. Don't blame them though, salary is super low and there is no proper training.

I find other big chains using fully automatic machines to produce espresso shots. No need to train 'barista' just operator to push a button and someone to clean end of day.

With frappachino one cannot even taste quality milk let alone quality coffee.

 

[testerjp]

I don't even believe the coffee from the local coffee roasters are fresh. I usually purchase from JB where i know a lot of the local "roasters" get from.

Anyway the first notes that will easily oxidise are those sweet, floral and fruity notes. They are pretty much gone by the first week. Actually when roasters dark roast them, the characters are pretty much toasted.

Coffee that have those characters like Columbian and Ethiopian are more vulnerable, especially if it's a pure origin or not blend well enough. That's why, i avoid pure origin.

If you going to put with milk, seriously, don't think it matters much as your milk will mask most of those notes. I won't even recommend spending on expensive beans if you drink mostly lattes.
How you do your milk is even more important, don't screw up the taste with latte art.

The body will also get thinner as the coffee oxidise, just make the fines smaller and squeeze it out.

 

[sohzai]

Guess it depends how you define fresh. I buy beans from highlander, geisha, Dutch colony etc. They are usually within 1 week of roast, depending on your luck when you visit them. The roast date also clearly labelled most of the time, isn't that quite sufficient?

Agree with you on the floral part, they diminish the most.

I don't know how to appreciate espresso. My coffee are all with milk - cappuccino, latte or picolo, iced, mocha etc. But I still do taste the fruity notes quite well.

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