(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[IntelFlash]

I think lever machines are the way to go. Even LM is recreating them.

 

[derazor]

I think lever machines are the way to go. Even LM is recreating them.

difficult to use? finicky? too many variables to have a consistent cup?

 

[derazor]

btw, today i descaled my Silvia. Wah.... first thing I notice is the steaming power like in turbo mode.....

 

[calbay]

difficult to use? finicky? too many variables to have a consistent cup?

Lever machines that are hard to use are those that have to extracted by using your arm strength to exert the pressure.

Spring levers are easier to use. They are normally for commercial purpose.
No back flushing, lesser cooling flush.
Longer longevity as the extraction is done by the spring.
Just pull, release and let the spring does the work.
Extracts from a high pressure then gradually reduce, pulling various profiles in one shot.

Compare those commercial machines i've used.
Pressure profiling, E61, and spring lever.
If i have to choose, i will not hesitate to take the spring lever.

It's always easier to pull a good shot, the flow rate is easier to get right, the profile of aroma is always full and complex.
The way it extracts can't be totally replicated by pressure profiling machines.

Many parts of Italy are still sticking to such machines.

 

[derazor]

CoffeeGeek - Choosing a Manual Machine

 

[IntelFlash]

Lever machines that are hard to use are those that have to extracted by using your arm strength to exert the pressure.

Spring levers are easier to use. They are normally for commercial purpose.
No back flushing, lesser cooling flush.
Longer longevity as the extraction is done by the spring.
Just pull, release and let the spring does the work.
Extracts from a high pressure then gradually reduce, pulling various profiles in one shot.

Compare those commercial machines i've used.
Pressure profiling, E61, and spring lever.
If i have to choose, i will not hesitate to take the spring lever.

It's always easier to pull a good shot, the flow rate is easier to get right, the profile of aroma is always full and complex.
The way it extracts can't be totally replicated by pressure profiling machines.

Many parts of Italy are still sticking to such machines.

Yup, i went to Fine Coffee Coy showroom tried the Bezzera Strega side by side with a double boiler and other hx machines. (E61s)

Really no horse run.

 

[sky00sky]

Yup, i went to Fine Coffee Coy showroom tried the Bezzera Strega side by side with a double boiler and other hx machines. (E61s)

Really no horse run.

Got try other machines equipments there ?

 

[IntelFlash]

There's 1 spring lever, 1 double boiler and 2 heat exchangers. The rest are just for display.

I think the most educative part is to test side by side exploring different profiles with different pressure extraction or extraction done at different temperature.

 

[The_King]

agreed. lever machine are hard to get consistent result.

but after a while, most of the time i get above ok result.

hard to get great shot using lever unless you ar a pro(me just a normal home user).

i always wonder how those home user using Olympia Cremina do it? getting great shot every single time

 

[calbay]

Yup, i went to Fine Coffee Coy showroom tried the Bezzera Strega side by side with a double boiler and other hx machines. (E61s)

Really no horse run.

Hmm..

It's actually a totally different world between a spring lever and those normal groupheads.

Say a double boiler, you fidget with the temperature to adjust the right intensity.
At different temp, you explore different levels of bitterness and sourness.
With the lower temp, you get the fruity notes at the expense of the more sour coffee. At higher, it gets more bitter and nutty but burn out the fruity notes. Bla bla.
End of the day, you will extract the coffee at a single temperature and extract out only a single profile. You will have to tinker and slowly figure out the sweet spot to your preference. This tinkering to find the sweet spot isn't easy for amateurs and is the PITA in coffee extraction.

Pressure has a similar principle but lesser impact as temp in the level of bitterness/sourness.
As well as that, for a spring lever grouphead, as the pressure goes lower, the speed of how water flow goes slower and more sticky to pull other profiles along. This gentler channelling does help a lot to the flow rate and less likely to disturb the bed of coffee during extraction. Modern designed spring levers are different, it pulls water onto your coffee bed first.
The critical thing is not on the pre infusion. Is there's a layer of water standing on top of your bed of coffee. Then when the pressure comes in, it's pushing the water down to force the water through the bed of coffee for the channelling. This is a better idea than injecting higher pressured water straight and disturbing the bed of coffee and possibly cause a crack and produce a bad flow. So in simple words, it's more forgiving.

The first impact of high pressure makes the way to a nice channelling, then the slow gradual flow flows down. Again it makes the success rate higher.

A good thing about why extracting with continuously different pressure, is you can pull various profiles all in one shot. It will almost never be flat.
Just like a split roasted coffee or a blend of coffee, it's a better idea than a single origin single roast coffee.
You can't do continuously different temp no matter how much heat control the machine has.

Another thing is, with its extracting way, it's able to take in finer powder than normal groupheads. You pull out more from the larger surface area exposed.
As for temp, modern spring levers are already with hx systems. It no longer matter as much as it extracts a spectrum of profiles,not 1. Flavours should be fuller, bitter, sour, sweet, everything

 

[derazor]

so HX/DB for home use for the most consistency and value for $?

 

[IntelFlash]

HX.
DB has almost double startup time, something that will negatively affect the user everyday.

Unless you like to drink your coffee at the end limits of temp. It gives you some extreme characters at the same time some undesirable notes. It's a zero sum game.

Most of the time, i set in the middle somewhere around 88 degrees. TBH not very signifiant changes by 1 to 2 degree changes.
HX is suppose to come out in around that mid range of temp after flushing. Though you cannot hit the precise temperature you want, it should land withing a safe range.

As what i was educated by the specialist, espresso coffee roasters normally roast their coffee blends to a roast suitable for HX. At most commercial machines are still HX.
So if you are pulling at a very light/high temp to enjoy the beans, it's different from what the roaster intended to make it taste like. Different from what the roaster think it best express.

The benefits of DB don't really justify the userability and cost imo.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

cool batch roaster controlled via IOS

50g yield max

order before 1 july and receive 200 pounds off SRP.

 

[chikyblink]

cool batch roaster controlled via IOS

50g yield max

order before 1 july and receive 200 pounds off SRP.

very cool product. wonder what's the srp on this.

 

[patryn33]

Not famous but students going penn state are blessed
W.C. Clarke's Fine Roasted Coffees

 

[IntelFlash]

What roasters are those local "specialty cafes" using to roast their beans?

I know papa is using Probat.

 

[chikyblink]

I know Highlander using Diedrich.

 

[squeeish]

jin satki man. drink coffee can 3.5k.

 

[IntelFlash]

jin satki man. drink coffee can 3.5k.

Last time when i was using Nespresso, one month $100-200+.
End up half a grand in 2-3 years.

This is far more economical

 

[The_King]

Last time when i was using Nespresso, one month $100-200+.
End up half a grand in 2-3 years.

This is far more economical

yea, when you say how good the nespresso maestria is.

i nearly taken in by the word.


but heng ah got a lever machine, now i spend from $11 to $18 for freshly roasted coffee bean for around 20 shot about 250gram of coffee per month. using 12gram per shot on my La Pavoni Europiccola

out of the 20 shot.

the first week and the half i drink around 8 espresso shot cause it fresh

the last 3 week or around 12 shot, i drink latte as the coffee is becoming stale