(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[IntelFlash]

Yes I use my vbm db pid when I want to fine tune. Updosing, down dosing, adjusting grind size, pulling ristretto, normale or lungo, start dump, centre cut are all ways to fine tune the drink but more leh Cheh compared to just pressing buttons on the pid. Good buy on your brewtus.

If u think it's too intense then can try to down dose and grind finer. If too bitter then updose and grind coarser and cut the shot early.

Heh...I think u need to do more experimenting with beans from local speciality cafés....not all are good (or rather suitable to ones own palate) but most are actually very similar to what is sold in renowned cafés overseas and they do get a good crop.

Just now i tried a bag of the left over beans bought from a local roster, bought 3 days ago.
I brew at 82 degrees to taste the notes.

Almost the same as the cheap pack i got from JB.
Don't know the content from the local roaster is as real as they say they are from or not. Suppose to be some nutty notes but turn out also same grapefruit notes.

Scali all come from the same JB supplier.

 

[IntelFlash]

BTW shipping to SG above certain qty need food permit.
I know cause i kana several times before and it costed me $50 to get the "permit" and the "permit" is one time use only.

 

[The_King]

guys if you can find la pavoni europiccola basket do let me know

 

[derazor]

I might be a bit rusty on this but the Vst is designed to get about 20% extraction yield when used properly ie 18g dose in 18g basket, brew ratio of between 1.5 - 2. Some coffee experts Scott rao, James Hoffman vst maker himself and a lot of other 3rd wave coffee people think that 19-20% extraction yield is "usually" able to get the best bits out of the bean. While I have not heard of any experiments conducted to verify the claim, these coffee guys claim to have done many informal experiments of their own to support this claim.

Generally not a good idea to put more than the specified amount In the vst because it will lead to under extraction.

Vst not easy to pull. Your distribution have to be good, and tamp must be level. I weigh the dosed basket after grinding to ensure the weight is correct before tamping. One interesting thing I find about the vst is that if you observe the extraction from the bottomless portafiler you can see an almost instantaneous point where suddenly most parts of extraction will suddenly go "transparent". This usually happens at the 25-30 sec mark for normale and just slightly longer for espresso. U can try to separately collect this transparentnish bit to see if u want it In your brew. I have I have found it to be unpleasantly bitter so I usually cut my shot before that.

Another interesting fact is that Originally the designer wanted the different sized vst baskets to be able to use 1 common grind size so that they baskets can be easily interchanged on the fly at cafe without having to change the grinder setting. Apparently he didn't manage to do it. From my own personally testing. 15 and 18g baskets do not need to change grind setting, extraction time and weight is the same. 22g need to grind coarser.

Another advantage is that many 3rd wave cafés use then too and will give u recommended brewing parameters based on the vst baskets.

Have fun and good luck.

Wah need to measure after weight ah? If need to be so accurate, should I just 1g more instead of 2g.

Since the basket is 18g, I'd be expecting ( 27ml to 36ml ) x 2 since I'm using 2 spouts. Based on your exp, it would be better to "stop" before 25s.

Pls let me know if my understanding is correct?

Thanks

 

[IntelFlash]

Thanks everyone for your comments, I already have a nespresso at home, and while its convenient, I do find the output "lacking" (for lack of a better description) compared to that from CSH/Highlander after a while.

Original plan for upgrading from the nespresso (before chancing upon this thread) was to hoot a Gaggia classic and a OE Lido 1 or 2.

My main concerns are:

1) space - anything that takes up much more space than a nespresso citz and aeroccino together would be a problem

2) cost - the usual

3) time - don't really have time to wait for the machine get up to temperature in the morning, that means I only get to make coffee on weekends and essentially the machine will probably be used to make 4-6 cups of coffee max a week

Your citiz milk is not small bro.
I had a standalone with a separate frother too, the width add together i remember is about the same as the all in one.

TBH i think my Brewtus like same size or just slightly bigger 10%.

Unlike the other crazy bros here who put ice kacang amount of powder and have to use crazy patterns of distribution to flatten it.

I use just 8 grammes, no distribute, straight tamp and extract. Less than a min settled.

I think steam frothing is faster than the Aeroccino frothing, and easier to clean.

Startup time no problem, i'm using this.

Cost just $10+ from NTUC or wherever i got it.
I program the machine to wake up for 1 hour in the morning only. It's on when i need it.

I also programmed it to on at around 1pm to 1.30pm to heat up incase i got the afternoon urge.

Even if i want to drink at 3PM later, the boiler be still warm, it will heat up in less than 5 mins.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Just now i tried a bag of the left over beans bought from a local roster, bought 3 days ago.
I brew at 82 degrees to taste the notes.

Almost the same as the cheap pack i got from JB.
Don't know the content from the local roaster is as real as they say they are from or not. Suppose to be some nutty notes but turn out also same grapefruit notes.

Scali all come from the same JB supplier.

82 is a very very low temp. I've used only 86 with very dark roasts.

Squaremile recommended 94 degrees for their red brick blend. Most others between 91-93.

But all this talk about temp also depends on your machine design and the way the pid measures the temp inc off set etc. I under stand the vbm db machines uses a multiple point measurement instead of 1 point measurement. Might want to check your pid settings. Happened to me before the pid settings mysteriously changed on its own and steam was coming out.

I do know some locals cafes here are actually a startup from Malaysia companies seeking to expand

But must have some faith in the cafés claim where they get their bean unless you have some strong evidence to believe otherwise. Or else will just become paranoid.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

BTW shipping to SG above certain qty need food permit.
I know cause i kana several times before and it costed me $50 to get the "permit" and the "permit" is one time use only.

Wah thanks for the tip. Can circumvent this with multiple shipments?

 

[IntelFlash]

Wah need to measure after weight ah? If need to be so accurate, should I just 1g more instead of 2g.

Since the basket is 18g, I'd be expecting ( 27ml to 36ml ) x 2 since I'm using 2 spouts. Based on your exp, it would be better to "stop" before 25s.

Pls let me know if my understanding is correct?

Thanks

Your grinder don't have any timer?
Argaration is enough.


I programmed my grinder to give 8 grammes in 4 seconds.
So whack two times will get 16 grammes.
Another 2 secs if i want the other 4 grammes.

I think it's better to look and not overfill that much.
Because if it's really too much, i can't fit the portafilter into the grouphead.
That time i tried once, really scare it will spoilt the machine cause it's really loaded to the max.

Also if you dose too much, the powder will just fall off and end up on your table.

 

[IntelFlash]

Wah thanks for the tip. Can circumvent this with multiple shipments?

One tracking number 1 permit.

 

[IntelFlash]

82 is a very very low temp. I've used only 86 with very dark roasts.

Squaremile recommended 94 degrees for their red brick blend. Most others between 91-93.

But all this talk about temp also depends on your machine design and the way the pid measures the temp inc off set etc. I under stand the vbm db machines uses a multiple point measurement instead of 1 point measurement. Might want to check your pid settings. Happened to me before the pid settings mysteriously changed on its own and steam was coming out.

I do know some locals cafes here are actually a startup from Malaysia companies seeking to expand

But must have some faith in the cafés claim where they get their bean unless you have some strong evidence to believe otherwise. Or else will just become paranoid.

82 degrees was to try the notes only.
If i remember correctly, that's the lowest limit i can set.

It was originally at 88 degrees and i did not played with the PID.
Then i tried 85 degrees, later 82.

85 is the best for me but 82 can taste the notes more. Quite unique because the notes are pretty obvious.

Mine is a double boiler, i flushed extensively before i make to make sure the temperature isn't really that off.

Going by the test, the higher the temperature, the more bitter it gets, i don't think i like that.

I bought from this local cafe in SG, the pinoy barista said until it's like god's beans. Anyway i don't think it's where they claimed from, or probably heavily blended.

My tongue as a judge, i don't think i will buy from them anymore.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Wah need to measure after weight ah? If need to be so accurate, should I just 1g more instead of 2g.

Since the basket is 18g, I'd be expecting ( 27ml to 36ml ) x 2 since I'm using 2 spouts. Based on your exp, it would be better to "stop" before 25s.

Pls let me know if my understanding is correct?

Thanks

I just try to be as accurate as possible so that my shots are consistent and I can make comparisons between shots when I tweak 1 parameter. I think its a good practice to weigh the filter basket after u grind to make sure u get the correct amount. But must be fast or the filter basket may lose too much heat.

Also it's better to weigh the shot instead of using volume to calculate because crema tends to mess up volume as a good way to measure. Since u dose 18g get a shot that weight 1.5-2x of 18g ie ( 27-36g) in 25-30s. Since u are using a Silvia with no preinfusion u can aim to get your shot in the low range of 25-30s. So with your double spout Silvia u should get 2 shots that weigh 27-36g in total.( volume wise 36g is about 50ml but depends on the crema)

Tat being said taste is king.. So even despite all this and your extraction is even and your shots taste worse then it's better to just go back to normal bAskets. Everyone's taste buds are different. But honestly I have found vst baskets to very useful in experimenting with different doses to get the best taste u want and consistency. 18g works best for me for most blends but not all.

Are u using a bottomless basket? I highly recommend using one especially if you find your results being inconsistent despite being very precise with your dosing and temp surfing, flushing etc. the usually suspects for very bitter and astringent espresso is massive channeling.
Some slight unevenness is ok but if the flow is consistently gushing at one side then there is probably some problems during distribution, uneven tamp etc. things like knocking the portafilter too hard against the tamper to settle the grounds or banging the portafiler when trying to lock it in can damage the puck.

Since you are using a Silvia becareful when locking in your portafiler and updosing too much because the screw at the shower screen can damage the puck leaning to channeling. Vst baskets deeper so I don't think u will have this problem with the correct dose.

Good luck and take it slow.

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

82 degrees was to try the notes only.
If i remember correctly, that's the lowest limit i can set.

It was originally at 88 degrees and i did not played with the PID.
Then i tried 85 degrees, later 82.

85 is the best for me but 82 can taste the notes more. Quite unique because the notes are pretty obvious.

Mine is a double boiler, i flushed extensively before i make to make sure the temperature isn't really that off.

Going by the test, the higher the temperature, the more bitter it gets, i don't think i like that.

I bought from this local cafe in SG, the pinoy barista said until it's like god's beans. Anyway i don't think it's where they claimed from, or probably heavily blended.

My tongue as a judge, i don't think i will buy from them anymore.

Heh I can guess from where already. I think they might have a problem with freshness or storage, wasnt impressed with their beans despite trying it a few times and I also don't buy from there anymore.

 

[chikyblink]

ok this is probably the most awesome video I've seen regarding coffee.
Stephen Sweeney's TPF - Transparent PortaFilter on Vimeo
wasn't a very nice pull though, you can see some squirts here and there.

 

[chikyblink]

Heh I can guess from where already. I think they might have a problem with freshness or storage, wasnt impressed with their beans despite trying it a few times and I also don't buy from there anymore.

where where?? share leh I also wanna try

 

[IntelFlash]

ok this is probably the most awesome video I've seen regarding coffee.
Stephen Sweeney's TPF - Transparent PortaFilter on Vimeo
wasn't a very nice pull though, you can see some squirts here and there.

Why the bed of coffee levitate first after it activate?
Won't that release all the pressure during the tamp?

 

[chikyblink]

Why the bed of coffee levitate first after it activate?
Won't that release all the pressure during the tamp?

The machine is a Londinium. I have no idea how lever machines work but I'm guessing the part where the puck rises is when the lever is being pulled upwards.

 

[derazor]

Will be going nyc in may.

Which cafe is a must to visit and what beans to buy?

Suggestions?

 

[CaoAhGua]

cum shot coffee

 

[Lazy_Tiger]

Will be going nyc in may.

Which cafe is a must to visit and what beans to buy?

Suggestions?

Blue bottle! I think intelligentsia also has a cafe in NYC. See if u can get your hands on the black cat espresso. I've never tired it before but it's pretty reputable.

If u can join a 1 day workshop or cupping class would also be great.

Pls do share your experience when u return.

 

[IntelFlash]

I tried intelligentsia and duno what stump, tbh , they are just so so.