HDMI 2.1, HDCP 2.3 discussion thread

[LiLAsN]

This thread is meant for all HDMI 2.1 & HDCP 2.3 related discussions.

Hi, thanks for the query. Right now I am using the

UGREEN 1m High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet Gold Plated Zinc Alloy Case Support 4K*2K and 3D

which I got from Lazada on both the TV -> soundbar -> media player. The media player I am currently using is the NVIDIA Shield TV and it's connected to the soundbar. The app in use is Kodi. Also, when I play any 4K movies using the app, the HDR logo will appear on the TV.

Thanks for the detailed response. Just to inform you, your HDMI cable is not capable of a proper HDMI 2.0 bandwidth. Even if you got HDR, it is probably running at 4:2:0 chroma subsampling. And it is only capable of ARC. Even the stats on the page you gave me states it only runs at a maximum of 10.2Gbps. This is a HDMI 1.4 cable btw. Just that it's cable name is HDMI High Speed cable.

You will need a HDMI Premium Certified Cable with Ethernet. (Yes, this is the name for a HDMI 2.0b cable) It will have a 3D barcode and an orange border to show that it has been approved by the HDMI organisation to run at the maximum 18Gbps bandwidth. With the Ethernet part allowing some extra bandwidth to allow some HDMI 2.1 features like eARC, ALLM and so on on a HDMI 2.0b port. Only then, can you get true lossless audio that uses 37 Mbps thanks to the Ethernet feature in that Premium certified cable.

Only then, can you maximize your C9 and Soundbar via a HDMI 2.0 interface. If you want future proofing, there are HDMI 2.1 cables out on the market. But their length seems to be the limiting factor at the moment. But if you can afford it, then this will allow you to take full use of all HDMI features such as eARC even though you only have a HDMI 2.0b soundbar. Plus, you won't have to upgrade your HDMI cable down the line. But the price may be the reason why you would not opt for it. It is only limited to 2m too. If you want a longer cable, the price will jump exponentially to hundreds.

If you want, just stick to HDMI Premium Certified cable. Though it's best to at least have one HDMI Ultra High Speed cable (yes, this is the name for HDMI 2.1 cable capable of 48Gbps) so you can verify if its a cable problem when you have a new device plugged in through your HDMI 2.1 TV.


This is the HDMI Premium Certified cable's logo to certify it capable of running 18Gbps. But remember to get one with Ethernet for the eARC support.

 

[deep3lue]

Thanks for the detailed response. Just to inform you, your HDMI cable is not capable of a proper HDMI 2.0 bandwidth. Even if you got HDR, it is probably running at 4:2:0 chroma subsampling. And it is only capable of ARC. Even the stats on the page you gave me states it only runs at a maximum of 10.2Gbps. This is a HDMI 1.4 cable btw. Just that it's cable name is HDMI High Speed cable.

You will need a HDMI Premium Certified Cable with Ethernet. (Yes, this is the name for a HDMI 2.0b cable) It will have a 3D barcode and an orange border to show that it has been approved by the HDMI organisation to run at the maximum 18Gbps bandwidth. With the Ethernet part allowing some extra bandwidth to allow some HDMI 2.1 features like eARC, ALLM and so on on a HDMI 2.0b port. Only then, can you get true lossless audio that uses 37 Mbps thanks to the Ethernet feature in that Premium certified cable.

Only then, can you maximize your C9 and Soundbar via a HDMI 2.0 interface. If you want future proofing, there are HDMI 2.1 cables out on the market. But their length seems to be the limiting factor at the moment. But if you can afford it, then this will allow you to take full use of all HDMI features such as eARC even though you only have a HDMI 2.0b soundbar. Plus, you won't have to upgrade your HDMI cable down the line. But the price may be the reason why you would not opt for it. It is only limited to 2m too. If you want a longer cable, the price will jump exponentially to hundreds.

If you want, just stick to HDMI Premium Certified cable. Though it's best to at least have one HDMI Ultra High Speed cable (yes, this is the name for HDMI 2.1 cable capable of 48Gbps) so you can verify if its a cable problem when you have a new device plugged in through your HDMI 2.1 TV.


This is the HDMI Premium Certified cable's logo to certify it capable of running 18Gbps. But remember to get one with Ethernet for the eARC support.

Wow thanks for the detailed information. I’ll make sure I’ll look out for that cable but there isn’t a need for such high speed cable at the moment unless I am trying to watch an 8K movie? Maybe in an year’s time when the market matures further then the need to use those kind of cables will probably manifest itself.

Till then, until I encounter issues with issues, I won’t be in a rush to change the cable since the improvement is very minimal.

 

[LiLAsN]

Wow thanks for the detailed information. I’ll make sure I’ll look out for that cable but there isn’t a need for such high speed cable at the moment unless I am trying to watch an 8K movie? Maybe in an year’s time when the market matures further then the need to use those kind of cables will probably manifest itself.

Till then, until I encounter issues with issues, I won’t be in a rush to change the cable since the improvement is very minimal.

No worries. Yup. Just HDMI Premium certified cable with Ethernet will do as you need it to achieve a proper Dolby Atmos lossless connection from the C9 to the Soundbar.

 

[deep3lue]

No worries. Yup. Just HDMI Premium certified cable with Ethernet will do as you need it to achieve a proper Dolby Atmos lossless connection from the C9 to the Soundbar.

I just saw the price of the HDMI 2.1 cables!

Is there really going to be a visual and audio difference using that kind of cables?

 

[LiLAsN]

I just saw the price of the HDMI 2.1 cables!

Is there really going to be a visual and audio difference using that kind of cables?

I just saw the price of the HDMI 2.1 cables!

Is there really going to be a visual and audio difference using that kind of cables?

For now, no. Literally no other devices have HDMI 2.1 port built in. Next year however, we'll start seeing Soundbars, Receivers and even the PS5 and next Xbox come out with HDMI 2.1 ports built in along with the features they offer. And chances are, those devices might have a HDMI 2.1 cable with it especially for consoles.

For games on next gen consoles, no more tearing due to you having VRR or G-Sync/FreeSync in case you didn't know what VRR means. So you won't see splits on your screen when the game is running at low framerate. ALLM for low input lag.

Full 4:4:4 colour accuracy per pixel.
In case you didn't know, Chroma Sub-sampling is one of them. You noticed that sometimes, TV Netflix app 4K videos look colourful and has more tiny details in the colour than 4K videos from other devices transported via HDMI. Like my PC to the TV. And immediately, I compare the 4K video from Netflix and PC 4K Bluray player and you'll think that Netflix might be boosting the image colours a bit.

In reality, it is because of Chroma Sub-Sampling. You know, the keyword like BT.2020 or REC 2020 or 4:2:2. When in every 4 box of pixels, the 2 on top and the 2 pixels below share the same colour as the pixel beside it. So instead of having red and purple on top and green and blue below, it will be 'red and red' for top and 'green and green' for below. This is because of HDMI 2.0's limited bandwidth. Even worst. Your HDMI 1.4 cable. Is sending 4:2:0 which means, 1 box of 4 pixels will share the same colour as just 1 of the pixels. So the entire box will be red for example. The other colour information will be completely lost. A HDMI 2.0 cable will be a step up for you since most content are mastered in 4:2:2 to begin with. Until next year when new devices roll out and you'll have to replace your current BluRay for the ones that are now Mastered in 4:4:4. This will take a while and will be in the future. Not as quickly as 1 year.

And lastly, eARC. Currently yes, you are having issues with getting getting the C9 to send the full lossless audio signal over to your Soundbar to decode and play it losslessly. But the future firmware update might solve this once they get the hang of HDMI 2.1's features. And that 'HDMI 2.0 Premium Certified cable with Ethernet' will be crucial for the connection between your Soundbar and TV. Since your Soundbar is only HDMI 2.0, you don't really need a HDMI 2.1 Ultra High Speed cable. So that Premium cable with Ethernet will do.

There are more features that might not be of relevance like the 120Hz signal sent to your 120Hz capable LG C9 TV. Since if you don't plan on buying the next gen console, you won't really take advantage of the 120Hz. Though yes, your TV is more than capable of it. I look forward to it but I'll have to wait for a future PC graphics card with HDMI 2.1 port as well to play PC games at 120Hz! But that's for me. So might not be relevant for you if you don't need it.

TLDR; So overall, the 'HDMI Premium Certified cable with Ethernet' (HDMI 2.0 cable) is a MUST. As you will be connecting future hardware like maybe the next gen console, Nvidia Shield with HDMI 2.1. Both these devices will have to go through your TV instead of your Soundbar as your soundbar is only HDMI 2.0.
But... Thanks to your HDMI 2.0 cable with Ethernet, you can receive the full lossless TrueHD signal from your TV which your console or Android TV Box is connected.
So your Soundbar will be well utilized as well as your TV getting the best picture quality it can from the next gen devices coming next year.
You can get the HDMI 2.1 cables for cheaper next year or it comes bundled with the new next gen consoles for example. So no need to worry about that cable now.

PS. Thanks for listening to my long comment. Much appreciated and I hope this educates you on what your C9 is capable of.

 

[86technie]

I just saw the price of the HDMI 2.1 cables!

Is there really going to be a visual and audio difference using that kind of cables?

Yes but at the moment there is only HDMI 2.0 cables for what I know.

Just get Elecom HDMI premium from Challenger, like LiLAsN mention for 4K and Dolby Atmos/DTS-X you need such cable.
Elecom wise is pricey depending on length, 1M goes around $30.

But if you can invest on Atmos setup, I suppose you have budget for cable as well.
For my AVR with Atmos setup, I am using Elecom Premium HDMI so far so good no issue.

FYI in the past I have used more ex cables like Belkin (Their high end), monster but I feel Elecom are more for value than others.

 

[deep3lue]

For now, no. Literally no other devices have HDMI 2.1 port built in. Next year however, we'll start seeing Soundbars, Receivers and even the PS5 and next Xbox come out with HDMI 2.1 ports built in along with the features they offer. And chances are, those devices might have a HDMI 2.1 cable with it especially for consoles.

For games on next gen consoles, no more tearing due to you having VRR or G-Sync/FreeSync in case you didn't know what VRR means. So you won't see splits on your screen when the game is running at low framerate. ALLM for low input lag.

Full 4:4:4 colour accuracy per pixel.
In case you didn't know, Chroma Sub-sampling is one of them. You noticed that sometimes, TV Netflix app 4K videos look colourful and has more tiny details in the colour than 4K videos from other devices transported via HDMI. Like my PC to the TV. And immediately, I compare the 4K video from Netflix and PC 4K Bluray player and you'll think that Netflix might be boosting the image colours a bit.

In reality, it is because of Chroma Sub-Sampling. You know, the keyword like BT.2020 or REC 2020 or 4:2:2. When in every 4 box of pixels, the 2 on top and the 2 pixels below share the same colour as the pixel beside it. So instead of having red and purple on top and green and blue below, it will be 'red and red' for top and 'green and green' for below. This is because of HDMI 2.0's limited bandwidth. Even worst. Your HDMI 1.4 cable. Is sending 4:2:0 which means, 1 box of 4 pixels will share the same colour as just 1 of the pixels. So the entire box will be red for example. The other colour information will be completely lost. A HDMI 2.0 cable will be a step up for you since most content are mastered in 4:2:2 to begin with. Until next year when new devices roll out and you'll have to replace your current BluRay for the ones that are now Mastered in 4:4:4. This will take a while and will be in the future. Not as quickly as 1 year.

And lastly, eARC. Currently yes, you are having issues with getting getting the C9 to send the full lossless audio signal over to your Soundbar to decode and play it losslessly. But the future firmware update might solve this once they get the hang of HDMI 2.1's features. And that 'HDMI 2.0 Premium Certified cable with Ethernet' will be crucial for the connection between your Soundbar and TV. Since your Soundbar is only HDMI 2.0, you don't really need a HDMI 2.1 Ultra High Speed cable. So that Premium cable with Ethernet will do.

There are more features that might not be of relevance like the 120Hz signal sent to your 120Hz capable LG C9 TV. Since if you don't plan on buying the next gen console, you won't really take advantage of the 120Hz. Though yes, your TV is more than capable of it. I look forward to it but I'll have to wait for a future PC graphics card with HDMI 2.1 port as well to play PC games at 120Hz! But that's for me. So might not be relevant for you if you don't need it.

TLDR; So overall, the 'HDMI Premium Certified cable with Ethernet' (HDMI 2.0 cable) is a MUST. As you will be connecting future hardware like maybe the next gen console, Nvidia Shield with HDMI 2.1. Both these devices will have to go through your TV instead of your Soundbar as your soundbar is only HDMI 2.0.
But... Thanks to your HDMI 2.0 cable with Ethernet, you can receive the full lossless TrueHD signal from your TV which your console or Android TV Box is connected.
So your Soundbar will be well utilized as well as your TV getting the best picture quality it can from the next gen devices coming next year.
You can get the HDMI 2.1 cables for cheaper next year or it comes bundled with the new next gen consoles for example. So no need to worry about that cable now.

PS. Thanks for listening to my long comment. Much appreciated and I hope this educates you on what your C9 is capable of.

Thank you so much for educating me! Appreciate that you have been patient to share all those information as well! Well, looking at those prices, I think it will not be so soon that the manufacturers will incorporate HDMI 2.1 cables into the package.

So my backside got itchy and I went to ordered the HDMI 2.1 cables from Aliexpress..

 

[deep3lue]

Yes but at the moment there is only HDMI 2.0 cables for what I know.

Just get Elecom HDMI premium from Challenger, like LiLAsN mention for 4K and Dolby Atmos/DTS-X you need such cable.
Elecom wise is pricey depending on length, 1M goes around $30.

But if you can invest on Atmos setup, I suppose you have budget for cable as well.
For my AVR with Atmos setup, I am using Elecom Premium HDMI so far so good no issue.

FYI in the past I have used more ex cables like Belkin (Their high end), monster but I feel Elecom are more for value than others.

So I decided to get adventurous and ordered the HDMI 2.1 cables from Aliexpress..

Optical Fiber Cables HDMI 2.1 48Gbps Ultra High Speed 8K 4K 4320P UHD HDR High-Definition Multimedia Interface MOSHOU amplifier

I know there most probably no huge difference in audio and display quality, but if the cables will give me no issues at all, I guess it's well spent.

 

[benedium]

Reliability is easier to get from established brands. But all the best to u. I would have waited for Elecom to make premium certified hdmi 2.1 cables. Then can just buy from challenger outlets.

 

[LiLAsN]

So I decided to get adventurous and ordered the HDMI 2.1 cables from Aliexpress..

Optical Fiber Cables HDMI 2.1 48Gbps Ultra High Speed 8K 4K 4320P UHD HDR High-Definition Multimedia Interface MOSHOU amplifier

I know there most probably no huge difference in audio and display quality, but if the cables will give me no issues at all, I guess it's well spent.

It's a bit shoddy though to buy cables that are not verified and approved by HDMI makers themselves. Nor buying from an untrusted brand.

Like I tried searching for the same cable on Amazon and it seems to have some quality control as well as 1 person who seems to be slightly tech savvy mentioning that it is not HDCP compliant.
Here's the Amazon US link to the same cable and read the reviews by other customers. They all seem to be from customers buying the cable from before the C9 and Samsung Q90R TV came out. So I doubt any of them have and HDMI 2.1 devices and TVs to plug the cable to.
https://www.amazon.com/SIKAI-Compatible-High-Definition-Multimedia-Interface/dp/B07K27SBSP/

HDCP is a sort of Copyright protection feature that prevents someone from recording the video. TVs, receivers need to have HDCP. The version changes with newer HDMI standards like 2.0 to 2.1. Without it, you will not get any videos through the cable. For HDMI 2.1, it should have HDCP 2.3 not HDCP 2.2 meant for HDMI 2.0.

As benedium/techidiot mentioned, it is best to get it from reliable brands. I'd highly recommend you use Amazon Prime app for Singapore. Only pay 1 time subscription of around $3 + for that month and cancel it right before your next monthly subscription. You can buy the cable for a very cheap price and still have the great Amazon return policy will be much better. I recommend the cables sold on our local Amazon store. Belkin, Club3D, Monoprice, Amazon Basic cables work well. And I've personally used Club3D and Monoprice. I'd recommend buying braided cables if you have tight bends as it will impact the bandwidth like it did with the Monoprice ones. But all is fine once I managed the tight bends. I've used Elecom in the past. They are reliable too. But reason for going to Amazon is for your safety. Any issues and you can easily return it.

There is really no worries to buying cheaper Monoprice cables. Because HDMI uses digital and do not act like traditional analog cables do. Where over longer distances or a thinner wiring may cause a degradation in quality.

HDMI being digital is a lot simpler. You will NOT see quality improvements for buying higher quality cables nor will you get a degradation in quality for buying cheaper cables. If it is not able to achieve the proper bandwidth with Deep Colour on the LG turned on, it will either display a blank screen or you will have intermittent flickering.


My worry here is that you are buying an unverified/uncertified HDMI 2.1 cable. Yes, it may be able to achieve HDMI's full bandwidth. But look at this video of this China company from CES. They mentioned the bandwidth is there for their prototype. But it is incapable of using any of the HDMI 2.1 feature such as eARC. They need to get the necessary features implemented from HDMI. And most importantly is that HDCP. Without it, you can't even get a video signal. You won't be able to verify if this cable works until HDMI 2.1 is enabled and you can use your TV with another HDMI 2.1 device.

Even if you are using it for just your HDMI 2.0 devices, without HDCP, again, no signal. That's what I'm worried about.

If you can cancel, please do. And just buy from Amazon Prime Singapore. A lot safer and the cables are verified to work considering you purchase the right cable. Or just buy from Amazon US for as long as they have the right certification like Belkin and Club3D which do have HDMI 2.1 cables and are confirmed reliable.

 

[petetherock]

This thread is meant for all HDMI 2.1 & HDCP 2.3 talk

 

[petetherock]

Thank you so much for educating me! Appreciate that you have been patient to share all those information as well! Well, looking at those prices, I think it will not be so soon that the manufacturers will incorporate HDMI 2.1 cables into the package.

So my backside got itchy and I went to ordered the HDMI 2.1 cables from Aliexpress..

Look out, as the standard is very new, some of these cables may not be true HDMI 2.1
Unless you need to bury the cables in the wall or something, it may be best to hang back first.

This HDMI 2.1 is an evolving standard and I expect some 2.1a or even 2.2 being issued.. Companies like to change standards to force us to buy new cables and accessories...

 

[86technie]

Reliability is easier to get from established brands. But all the best to u. I would have waited for Elecom to make premium certified hdmi 2.1 cables. Then can just buy from challenger outlets.

Agree the one that deep3lue shared, probably OEM and the cable
could be 2.0 but they brand it as HDMI 2.1.

 

[86technie]

Please take note as far as I know HDMI 2.1 are not widely adopted yet.
At the moment HDMI 2.0 is used in TV, soundbar and AVR.
HDMI 2.0 cable is needed in order for 4K HDR playback as well as
Dolby TrueHD/Atmos and DTS-Master Audio/DTS-X.

When buying HDMI cable please do not look at pricing.
Quote example this Elecom cable which cost less than it's premium
counterpart.

Elecom DH-HD14ER30BK 3M

Challenger/Hachi Tech - $26.91(Member)

https://www.hachi.tech/accessories-...om-hdmi-cable-3m-dh-hd14er30bk--4953103258716

https://www.elecom.co.jp.e.gj.hp.transer.com/products/DH-HD14ER30BK.html

Take note of the cable standards as that is HDMI with Ethernet meaning HDMI 1.4.

It does support 4K but the standards and bandwidth are not HDMI 2.0.

Elecom DH-HDP14E10BK 3M

Challenger/Hachi Tech - $36.81 (Member)

https://www.hachi.tech/accessories-...for-ethernet-30m-dh-hdp14e30bk--4953103495098

https://www.elecom.co.jp.e.gj.hp.transer.com/products/DH-HDP14E10BK.html

This cable is HDMI Premium certified so compatible with 4K HDR.

I know some don't feel the need to spend extra on cable if it can work than it should be OK. However there are different HDMI cable with different standards so have to take note.

So far I have not seen any HDMI 2.1 cable in market I do not want to talk about it.

Rule of thumb, more expensive HDMI doesn't mean it is better.
There are other more premium brands HDMI like Audioquest, Monster and etc. but don't waste money on such cable.

Like LiLAsN mentioned, beside Elecom, there is Monoprice, Amazon basic are good alternate brands. My AVR is using Monoprice subwoofer cable, very study and well build cable.

Best place to get cables like HDMI, speaker cables and etc.
Amazon would be better than Taobao and etc.
Since Challenger now have E-store, you can purchase through it.

Take note using less reputable brands HDMI or OEM ones, you may face several issue:

- Flickering
- Occasion Green screen/No image
- Occasion Picture/audio drop in/out

Which means the cable is not of good quality and you have to change it.

 

[deep3lue]

Thanks guys for the advice. So I have cancelled the order and will instead order the Monoprice from Amazon.

 

[hmsweethm]

Just bought the elecom 4KHDR cable from Best Denki.
Saw like the ones in this thread.
App Store can download a HDMI app to scan the QR code of the cable’s box.

Spoiler

After scan with the app,

Spoiler

 

[86technie]

Just bought the elecom 4KHDR cable from Best Denki.
Saw like the ones in this thread.
App Store can download a HDMI app to scan the QR code of the cable’s box.

Spoiler

After scan with the app,

Spoiler

This cable I have been using for my AVR setup for many years now.
Decent price and reliable.

 

[skpuppy]

Why not use those fiber optics hdmi cable sold at amazon?

 

[benedium]

Wah didn't even know got such thing.

 

[hmsweethm]

Why not use those fiber optics hdmi cable sold at amazon?

I read only USA people using Fiber optic hdmi, cos house big, is got Long distance.
Regular copper HDMI got length limitation. So fiber resolves that.
AMDK Seems particular about audio/visual quality.
I think most people stream in SG since house not so big & don’t mind the compressed quality.