Help: Dad passed on

[Eternit]

Hi guys,

My Dad passed on 2 days ago, I am more emotionally stable now to settle administrative stuff. He did not leave a will. There is quite a lot and frankly, I need some help and guidance:

1. Bank Accounts:

He gave us access to his main DBS account before he passed on. So we already transferred out the funds. However, I know he might have other bank accounts. Problem is, we don't know which bank, or the account number/login details. How should we go about doing it?

2. Car:

He has an old Toyota Wish still parked in the HDB carpark (probably season parking already expired as he was hospitalized for quite long). As I don't intend to drive it, I plan to sell it. I'm not sure where / how to begin. I'm not sure how many years COE left (is this even relevant). All I know is, his car insurance included my name as a second driver (even though I never drove that car before. )

3. DPS Insurance:

I know he is covered under Dependants’ Protection Scheme (DPS). I am not sure if he made a nomination though. How do we proceed to make the claim?

Other matters I am still figuring out. I need help with the above 3 for now. Thanks all.

 

[happycanliao]

Bring the death cert and your birth certificate to go banks, LTA n insurance,cpf to claim and sell car

 

[woof]

Sorry to hear about your loss.

Not so simple - you will need official/legal proceedings.
I googled this and found this article which seems to provide decent guidance:

https://dollarsandsense.sg/estate-settlement-singapore-funeral/

 

[Devilsire]

Hi guys,

My Dad passed on 2 days ago, I am more emotionally stable now to settle administrative stuff. He did not leave a will. There is quite a lot and frankly, I need some help and guidance:

1. Bank Accounts:

He gave us access to his main DBS account before he passed on. So we already transferred out the funds. However, I know he might have other bank accounts. Problem is, we don't know which bank, or the account number/login details. How should we go about doing it?

2. Car:

He has an old Toyota Wish still parked in the HDB carpark (probably season parking already expired as he was hospitalized for quite long). As I don't intend to drive it, I plan to sell it. I'm not sure where / how to begin. I'm not sure how many years COE left (is this even relevant). All I know is, his car insurance included my name as a second driver (even though I never drove that car before. )

3. DPS Insurance:

I know he is covered under Dependants’ Protection Scheme (DPS). I am not sure if he made a nomination though. How do we proceed to make the claim?

Other matters I am still figuring out. I need help with the above 3 for now. Thanks all.

Hello, sorry to hear about your loss. I may share some infos as i had similar experience recently

1. Bank Accounts
Spouse still around and you have any siblings? As it may complicate things
Firstly, u may make enquiry/request for Bank account details i.e Account no. + Balances with Death Cert / NRIC / Birth Cert
If Balance is <$5000, one can sign indemnity (signed by every direct beneficiary, with Birth/Death/Marriage/NRIC) and close account + withdrawal, simple.
If >$5000, Can consider Public trustee first if meet all requirements and total related estate is <$50000 https://pto.mlaw.gov.sg/deceased-cpf-estate-monies/information-for-next-of-kin-estate-monies/
Once >$50k, your only way is through the long and costly Letter of Administration application process which will take months

2. Car
Valuation/COE? As stated above, mostly likely LOA

3. DPS
Applies only <60yo iirc. Same as CPF, nomination > independant distribution via Intestate Succession Act. They will auto mail you letters to file claims

Some other matters which u may need to dig/find/research on:
- SGX/Stocks/Brokage
- Insurance Policies, Endowments
- Credits like loans, settlements
- Telco / Ultilities
- HDB
- Memberships

 

[BBCWatcher]

My sympathies.

You’ve received some good suggestions. Here are a few more, most not time critical:

1. The distribution of his funds from his bank account needs to be consistent with the Intestate Succession Act. Or (in other words) don’t spend those dollars if by law they belong to someone else. Get them to the someone else if/as the ISA specifies. If that person (or persons) wishes to give the money to someone else, fine, but I think it’s prudent to create a record of fund transfers that comply with the ISA lest there be any future dispute or controversy.

Also, is there something he was paying from that account that’s important to keep paying — that survives his death because it affects someone living (not discharged by death)? A zero or too low balance cannot handle such payments. For example, if he was paying someone’s school fees via GIRO deductions then presumably that someone still wants to attend school.

2. Check the DBS account for linkages to other accounts, and check the bank statements for evidence of other accounts. You may see transfers from CDP, insurance policies (premium payments for example), and other financial accounts that will then give you powerful clues where to go look. And then when you have records from those accounts you can look for further linkages.

3. You mentioned DPS. If he had NTUC membership then his survivor(s) may be able to make a claim for some more life insurance, a modest amount. Also, if he had the Home Protection Scheme (which is popular in Singapore) then there could be a HPS claim available.

4. If he had any overseas assets (or you think he might have) then you may have foreign country procedures to follow to claim those assets. Usually those are pretty straightforward once affairs are reasonably settled in Singapore.

5. If you missed something then eventually it should end up as unclaimed property held with a trustee. So you can set a reminder to look for unclaimed property in the future. When my grandfather passed on he left some financial account nobody knew about in Massachusetts (of all places). A couple years after he passed on I checked their unclaimed property database (available online at an official state government site), his name popped up, and then other survivors (since that account was their inheritance) were able to chase it.

6. Keep notes. It’s easy to forget something. A spreadsheet might work for you, or even a simple paper notebook. Also download all electronic statements you can find (PDFs) and scan the paper ones so you have everything at your fingertips.

7. This one is a bit exotic, but since I met a Singaporean who has this situation I’ll mention it briefly. If he lived and worked overseas then occasionally foreign benefits apply. I know someone who worked in the U.S. for 10 years (on a long assignment, and I think it was two separate stints), and thus he qualifies for U.S. Social Security benefits. Meaning if he were to die tomorrow there’s a modest death benefit, any minor child dependents would ordinarily be eligible for monthly support payments (until they grow up), and his surviving spouse would often be eligible for his retirement benefit (when he/she reaches retirement age).

8. If it’s not too expensive (or at least can be made cheap) then you might want to keep his mobile phone service going for a while to see if a financial institution (or other entity holding assets) you don’t yet know about sends him a SMS text message, to give you another clue. I think you might also be able to pull his credit report for some possible clues there. For example, if he has a credit card with Bank XYZ that you don’t know about then he might also have an account there.

9. If he has a SRS account then I think there’s an option to transfer invested assets to a survivor (per the ISA) without selling the securities. For example, if he has 100 shares of DBS in his SRS account then (I believe) they could be transferred to the survivor’s CDP account as-is. There’s probably a fee to do that, but there’d also be a fee to sell the shares. Sometimes it makes sense to keep the assets as-is. Same thing with CPF Investment Scheme assets, I believe.

10. Since you mentioned a long illness it seems possible there’s a Critical Illness or Personal Accident insurance claim available (depending on the ailment) if he had that type of insurance. Worth checking the policy terms if you think there might be something there. His bank and credit card statements should give some clues whether he was paying premiums (if you search back at least a year).

 

[Devilsire]

My sympathies.

You’ve received some good suggestions. Here are a few more, most not time critical:
1. The distribution of his funds from his bank account needs to be consistent with the Intestate Succession Act. Or (in other words) don’t spend those dollars if by law they belong to someone else. Get them to the someone else if/as the ISA specifies. If that person (or persons) wishes to give the money to someone else, fine, but I think it’s prudent to create a record of fund transfers that comply with the ISA lest there be any future dispute or controversy.
Also, is there something he was paying from that account that’s important to keep paying — that survives his death because it affects someone living (not discharged by death)? A zero or too low balance cannot handle such payments. For example, if he was paying someone’s school fees via GIRO deductions then presumably that someone still wants to attend school.
2. Check the DBS account for linkages to other accounts, and check the bank statements for evidence of other accounts. You may see transfers from CDP, insurance policies (premium payments for example), and other financial accounts that will then give you powerful clues where to go look. And then when you have records from those accounts you can look for further linkages.
3. You mentioned DPS. If he had NTUC membership then his survivor(s) may be able to make a claim for some more life insurance, a modest amount. Also, if he had the Home Protection Scheme (which is popular in Singapore) then there could be a HPS claim available.
4. If he had any overseas assets (or you think he might have) then you may have foreign country procedures to follow to claim those assets. Usually those are pretty straightforward once affairs are reasonably settled in Singapore.
5. If you missed something then eventually it should end up as unclaimed property held with a trustee. So you can set a reminder to look for unclaimed property in the future. When my grandfather passed on he left some financial account nobody knew about in Massachusetts (of all places). A couple years after he passed on I checked their unclaimed property database (available online at an official state government site), his name popped up, and then other survivors (since that account was their inheritance) were able to chase it.
6. Keep notes. It’s easy to forget something. A spreadsheet might work for you, or even a simple paper notebook. Also download all electronic statements you can find (PDFs) and scan the paper ones so you have everything at your fingertips.
7. This one is a bit exotic, but since I met a Singaporean who has this situation I’ll mention it briefly. If he lived and worked overseas then occasionally foreign benefits apply. I know someone who worked in the U.S. for 10 years (on a long assignment, and I think it was two separate stints), and thus he qualifies for U.S. Social Security benefits. Meaning if he were to die tomorrow there’s a modest death benefit, any minor child dependents would ordinarily be eligible for monthly support payments (until they grow up), and his surviving spouse would often be eligible for his retirement benefit (when he/she reaches retirement age).
8. If it’s not too expensive (or at least can be made cheap) then you might want to keep his mobile phone service going for a while to see if a financial institution (or other entity holding assets) you don’t yet know about sends him a SMS text message, to give you another clue. I think you might also be able to pull his credit report for some possible clues there. For example, if he has a credit card with Bank XYZ that you don’t know about then he might also have an account there.
9. If he has a SRS account then I think there’s an option to transfer invested assets to a survivor (per the ISA) without selling the securities. For example, if he has 100 shares of DBS in his SRS account then (I believe) they could be transferred to the survivor’s CDP account as-is. There’s probably a fee to do that, but there’d also be a fee to sell the shares. Sometimes it makes sense to keep the assets as-is. Same thing with CPF Investment Scheme assets, I believe.
10. Since you mentioned a long illness it seems possible there’s a Critical Illness or Personal Accident insurance claim available (depending on the ailment) if he had that type of insurance. Worth checking the policy terms if you think there might be something there. His bank and credit card statements should give some clues whether he was paying premiums (if you search back at least a year).

yes the banking transactions are very useful clues to track matters that one need to follow up eg. bills, giro, premiums, investments


Sent from Poco F3 using EDMWER app!

 

[BBCWatcher]

yes the banking transactions are very useful clues to track matters that one need to follow up eg. bills, giro, premiums, investments

Some payments don't/shouldn't survive death, though. For example, a deceased person shouldn't be paying for his/her gym membership any more. And if that gym got paid for September (this month), for example, I'd try to claw it back. A short, simple call should do it (one would think).

 

[henrylbh]

Hi guys,

My Dad passed on 2 days ago, I am more emotionally stable now to settle administrative stuff. He did not leave a will. There is quite a lot and frankly, I need some help and guidance:

1. Bank Accounts:

He gave us access to his main DBS account before he passed on. So we already transferred out the funds. However, I know he might have other bank accounts. Problem is, we don't know which bank, or the account number/login details. How should we go about doing it?

2. Car:

He has an old Toyota Wish still parked in the HDB carpark (probably season parking already expired as he was hospitalized for quite long). As I don't intend to drive it, I plan to sell it. I'm not sure where / how to begin. I'm not sure how many years COE left (is this even relevant). All I know is, his car insurance included my name as a second driver (even though I never drove that car before. )

3. DPS Insurance:

I know he is covered under Dependants’ Protection Scheme (DPS). I am not sure if he made a nomination though. How do we proceed to make the claim?

Other matters I am still figuring out. I need help with the above 3 for now. Thanks all.

You may need more than the abovementioned 3.

Since there is no Will, decide among family members who is the one willing to be Administrator. Then, that person need to see a lawyer to apply for Grant of Letter of Administration. With LOA, the Administrator can go about liquidating and distributing the deceased's estate.

But then, it's not easy, as you need to ascertain all the assets/liabilities that the lawyer needs to include in the Schedule of Assets in the application for LOA.

Bloody hell, a lawyer wanted to charge me extra when I informed that lawyer that the deceased has a bank account which I can't produce the passbook or the estimated amount in the account. Your problem would be greater if you think the deceased may have bank accounts for which you are clueless. Most lawyer will charge extra if more than 3 bank accounts.

Besides that the damned lawyer wanted to include in the schedule of assets, a hdb flat that's held under tenancy in common and a bank account that's jointly held. Told him to go to hell and I refused to do so. LL, he did not include them in the schedule of assets.

The lawyer also wanted to see both the witnesses to prepare statements cause the will was thumb printed. I told him off that only one witness is available as the other is not free. In the end, he only met one witness.

All the not common requests by the lawyer will cause additional fee.

Note you can't act on assets not included in the Schedule of Assets. Subsequently if you discovered other assets that need you to produce LOA, you will need to see the lawyer again and it cost money

 

[BTO_Brah]

Was there a CPF nomination done? If not it could be a pain to get the funds out.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/account-services/providing-for-your-loved-ones/making-a-cpf-nomination
My condolences OP.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Outstanding taxes owed to IRAS still must be settled. If for example he’s on GIRO for income tax those payments still need to be made, somehow. (Income tax is in arrears in Singapore.)

 

[Eternit]

Thanks guys,

As much as possible, I try not to go the lawyer route, not sure how much it costs, but we already spent quite a lot on his medical bills, funeral etc. and we lost my Dad's income stream as well. So we really don't want to fork out more....

I am still going through his accounts, I think he has one OCBC Business account with only 2K+ inside, but we don't know the internet banking details, I am not sure if we can just go to the bank with his death cert and get it out.

The main thing now, is his old Toyota Wish still parked in the carpark. the grass under the wheels grow quite tall already, my mom will cry everytime she sees it. So I really want to sell it ASAP. I tried calling LTA, no one answers, anyone knows how to go about selling his car?

 

[gz0707]

Thanks guys,

As much as possible, I try not to go the lawyer route, not sure how much it costs, but we already spent quite a lot on his medical bills, funeral etc. and we lost my Dad's income stream as well. So we really don't want to fork out more....

I am still going through his accounts, I think he has one OCBC Business account with only 2K+ inside, but we don't know the internet banking details, I am not sure if we can just go to the bank with his death cert and get it out.

The main thing now, is his old Toyota Wish still parked in the carpark. the grass under the wheels grow quite tall already, my mom will cry everytime she sees it. So I really want to sell it ASAP. I tried calling LTA, no one answers, anyone knows how to go about selling his car?

got many advice here, so best for u to analyse and decide which way to go. my 2 cents below

Probate - you will need lawyer to get this. why get probate? u may be able to use death cert to remove name from property, but if he has overseas stocks, easiest route is to use probate which facilitates transfer to spouse or family. using lawyer will cost a few k, but the lawyer will also run thru all the banks to check if any bank has any account in his name.

car - u can call any dealer who is keen to make a profit and settle the sale and transfer for you, but please check attached link below to make sure it does not go below the paper value or what LTA will return on the car. just use his car plate and IC and you can the parf or car rebate value. can use the car funds to support legal or other expenses. hope this helps.

https://vrl.lta.gov.sg/lta/vrl/action/enquireRebateBeforeDeRegByPublicMain?FUNCTION_ID=F0304009TT

 

[Geeezz]

Btw DPS ish claim from GE, can just call the customer service with his nric details to ask what is needed to do

 

[henrylbh]

got many advice here, so best for u to analyse and decide which way to go. my 2 cents below

car - u can call any dealer who is keen to make a profit and settle the sale and transfer for you, but please check attached link below to make sure it does not go below the paper value or what LTA will return on the car. just use his car plate and IC and you can the parf or car rebate value. can use the car funds to support legal or other expenses. hope this helps.

He can't even log in to any gov services with father's Singpass.

 

[gz0707]

He can't even log in to any gov services with father's Singpass.

for LTA check, no need to log in with password or singpass. only need the car plate and IC last 4 digits. at least give him an idea of what value left on scrap or coe if he scraps car.

 

[henrylbh]

for LTA check, no need to log in with password or singpass. only need the car plate and IC last 4 digits. at least give him an idea of what value left on scrap or coe if he scraps car.

That transaction or rather view all car owners know. Knowing that doesn't mean the person can sell without owner's and his appointed representative's consent or signature.

 

[aarontansp]

Qn to experts For (1), joint account holders dont need Intestate Succession Act, right?
As a joint account holder can just transfer out the money and close the joint account?

 

[BBCWatcher]

Qn to experts For (1), joint account holders dont need Intestate Succession Act, right?
As a joint account holder can just transfer out the money and close the joint account?

First of all, what's possible to do technically doesn't always match what the law requires. It's important to keep these two separate things separate. Hypothetically you could "borrow" someone's digital token and transfer $10,000 from their account to yours. That doesn't mean it'd be legal to do that. You could be stealing money.

OK, that said, there are two types of joint accounts: joint-all and joint-alternate. With "joint-all" all account holders must consent to transactions. Obviously that's not possible when one of the account holders is deceased, so that account will need to be transferred to the surviving account holder(s) — a legal process coordinated with the bank. "Joint-alternate" allows any joint account holder to conduct transactions. (See above and below about allowed mechanics v. legal requirements.)

Ordinarily the surviving joint account holder(s) is(are) entitled to the remaining funds in the account, as I understand it. However, fairly rare exceptions are possible. Some other party (a legal heir under the Intestate Succession Act presumably) could try argue that the funds should be the heir's if for example the joint account holder did something nefarious to trick the deceased into adding the joint account holder. Mechanics aside, it's always best to settle an estate "by the book."

 

[henrylbh]

Qn to experts For (1), joint account holders dont need Intestate Succession Act, right?
As a joint account holder can just transfer out the money and close the joint account?

I was a joint owner of a maybank savings account with my cousin. Upon his death, I closed the account without telling the bank about death of the other joint holder. I did the same when I was joint owner of 2 of 3 posb savings accounts with my deceased father. One is left under joint account and I am operating it No way will the bank know about the demise of account holder. I have used a deceased's bank account (singly owned) for a year before deciding to close it with Letter of Administration.

 

[henrylbh]

I was a joint owner of a maybank savings account with my cousin. Upon his death, I closed the account without telling the bank about death of the other joint holder. I did the same when I was joint owner of 2 of 3 posb savings accounts with my deceased father. One is left under joint account and I am operating it No way will the bank know about the demise of account holder. I have used a deceased's bank account (singly owned) for a year before deciding to close it with Letter of Administration.

In my cousin's case, the acting lawyer for his Will wanted to include the joint account in the Schedule of Assets in the application for Grant of Probate. I refused the lawyer and the lawyer LL.