Help: Dad passed on

[Devilsire]

Qn to experts For (1), joint account holders dont need Intestate Succession Act, right?
As a joint account holder can just transfer out the money and close the joint account?

By right, no, even joint accounts be it both signature / single signature (or single account holder and you have ibanking/atm access), will require to assign administrator for deceased portion of money in account into deceased estate, and to clear whatever debts / creditors with estate first before moving into distribution of assets by Intestate Succession Act and subjected to any objecion or challenge claims, disagreements amongst beneficiaries and many other complications etc.

By left, many just withdraw/transfer out with access, including myself. But i'll say first, do so only for the convenience and not for other agendas, if not be mentally prepared for even worse inconveniences / confrontation / lawsuit if complication(s) arise.

 

[henrylbh]

By right, no, even joint accounts be it both signature / single signature (or single account holder and you have ibanking/atm access), will require to assign administrator for deceased portion of money in account into deceased estate, and to clear whatever debts / creditors with estate first before moving into distribution of assets by Intestate Succession Act and subjected to any objecion or challenge claims, disagreements amongst beneficiaries and many other complications etc.

By left, many just withdraw/transfer out with access, including myself. But i'll say first, do so only for the convenience and not for other agendas, if not be mentally prepared for even worse inconveniences / confrontation / lawsuit if complication(s) arise.

No left or right. Even asset in your name or jointly held can be contested with or without will and there is no certainty

One lawyer told me that I no need to include joint accounts in the Schedule of Assets court and another lawyer asked me for details of joint account to include in the said Schedule. I f the one asking

One lawyer need to see both witnesses to prepare extra affidavits and another made do with one witness as the wills were thumb printed.

One lawyer charge extra $$$ for preparing the extra affidavits while the other lawyer did not. Same for writing to financial institutions for info.

Some lawyer will charge extra if they need to visit safe boxes listed in the said Schedule.

Standard fee can range from $1k to $2k depending on the complexity of the case and value of estate and whether you want them to undertake extra work after obtaining the probate or letter of administration.

 

[Devilsire]

Ya in short, they are just out to earn $ via the "system". Cant blame them too, study so long but doing mostly administrative stuffs that can be handled by secretary/admin staff.
back then when i researched abt Probate and LoA, its actually possible to DIY if one wishes to if its a simple case, just alot technical terms to fill in the forms

 

[g_t2006]

The main thing now, is his old Toyota Wish still parked in the carpark. the grass under the wheels grow quite tall already, my mom will cry everytime she sees it. So I really want to sell it ASAP. I tried calling LTA, no one answers, anyone knows how to go about selling his car?

You need the LOA. Will cost $1k+ at the lawyers. There is a cheaper way to get it but it takes way longer. I can't remember from where though. You can do a Google search or someone here might know.

Once you get the LOA, you gotta go down to LTA to transfer the vehicle to your name. Find a buyer and sell it.

If you want a better price for the vehicle, I would suggest you start the engine and drive it. If the engine can't be started, get it towed to a workshop and see if it's worth fixing. No one would want to buy a car with a condition that's unknown and especially when it hasn't been driven for a while.

 

[qhong61]

You need the LOA. Will cost $1k+ at the lawyers. There is a cheaper way to get it but it takes way longer. I can't remember from where though. You can do a Google search or someone here might know.

Once you get the LOA, you gotta go down to LTA to transfer the vehicle to your name. Find a buyer and sell it.

If you want a better price for the vehicle, I would suggest you start the engine and drive it. If the engine can't be started, get it towed to a workshop and see if it's worth fixing. No one would want to buy a car with a condition that's unknown and especially when it hasn't been driven for a while.

No one want to buy a deceased car.

 

[henrylbh]

Ya in short, they are just out to earn $ via the "system". Cant blame them too, study so long but doing mostly administrative stuffs that can be handled by secretary/admin staff.
back then when i researched abt Probate and LoA, its actually possible to DIY if one wishes to if its a simple case, just alot technical terms to fill in the forms

Can DIY but not worth the ding dong with missteps along the way and extra cost for re-filing erroneous doc.

Procedures to incorporate or deregister a private limited company are so much easier, but most still pay and let the professional handle. Yet when I overview those who DIY, many compliance matters are left undone. Only Acra didn't bother as no doc are required to be filed except the MAA. Even for this doc, Acra provide a standard version which the applicant can click to accept.

I came to know a lawyer who omo and he just handles only probates and in one year he handles more tjhan 100 cases. For standard application, he charges 1250 net of disbursements including amount payable to commissioner of oaths who would go to his office (2x) for signing doc.

 

[henrylbh]

No one want to buy a deceased car.

No buyer would know whether he is buying a deceased car unless he is particular and does a search.

 

[foxer77]

If u not the only child then there might be an issue.

 

[henrylbh]

Ya in short, they are just out to earn $ via the "system". Cant blame them too, study so long but doing mostly administrative stuffs that can be handled by secretary/admin staff.
back then when i researched abt Probate and LoA, its actually possible to DIY if one wishes to if its a simple case, just alot technical terms to fill in the forms

Can't blame the lawyer for trying to earn $ via the 'system' But from my dealings, some are earning $ due to not enough experience and the client is paying for being a complete ignorant.

DIY is not a simple case. You need to have more than just ordinary knowledge.

If simple like what you imagine, I would jump to offer such services to earn side income.

My cousin was named as executrix in a will. She turned to me to recommend her a lawyer. After reading the will, I shook head, and told her to go back to the lawyer who prepared the will. Unbelieveable, my cousin said the lawyer does not handle such matters and the lawyer own application for probate was given to another party.

Two lawyers turned down my request for simple service when they read the will and noted that the will was thumb printed and the testator was 95 yo when the will was made. I DIY the will and failed to have another supporting doc for the thumb print. Even when I was willing to pay more, they reject my offer

In the end I had to turn to a lawyer recommended by my good friend. And lol, that was the same lawyer I used more than 10 years ago.

Both instances that I narrated showed that some lawyer must to dumb to reject simple cases?

 

[zi]

Try to drive the car. All these slow paperwork doesn't help you to maintain the car.
You need to drive it. You need to pay road tax , renew motor insurance etc for it. Don't forget to wash the car too.

 

[henrylbh]

If u not the only child then there might be an issue.

Which post are you referring to?

In my case, definitely my only child will have a very trying time, with or without a will. I see no need for a will as I am fine with the intestate succession act.

I have bank accounts in my sole name and a 2 joint bank accounts with my child. I also have a joint account with a third party. Not only that, I have a joint bank account with my father who died 4 years ago and the bank account is still not closed. I also have 3 existing estate bank accounts in the estate of a, b and c. In addition, I have 2 bank accounts in Malaysia in my sole name. Balances in the accounts are not much, but they are still money

Then I also have shares under CDP in my sole name and another CDP in joint names with my deceased father and shares under CPFIS Some, not all, shares under my CDP are mutually held on behalf of third party on shared basis and some belong to third party and some delisted/suspended. The third party also have some shares under CDP on in the same manner i.e. belong to me and some on shared basis. Besides I have shares in a inactive private limited company with some bank balance.

There is also an almost empty safe box with CISCO in my name and a deceased person.

The above are some of issues/assets excluding liabilities and contingencies. I have made CPF nomination but my siblings will not be happy with it, though my child is non-chalant when told about it as the bulk of it will go to my child. My fully paid up flat is in my sole name and no issue is expected.

My only child will surely face many many issues which may be contested legally and I am trying to regularise and simplify the idiosyncrasies though it will take some time. In the meantime, I have a huge worksheet listing all the assets (and wishes) and the manner in which they are held and which would require LOA and another worksheet listing all my passwords, including account numbers/contact and ATM pins. Those who owe money to me, god bless them as there is no record. My singpass will be frozen the day I uplorry just like my father's singpass when I tried to use it the next day.

What a mess I got into over the years

 

[henrylbh]

Once you get the LOA, you gotta go down to LTA to transfer the vehicle to your name. Find a buyer and sell it.

Stupid rule ... same as HDB, the deceased flat must be transferred to name of Administrator/Executor before the Administrator/Executor can sell the flat.

 

[RDInvestor]

Actually, the first thing you should do is to calculate the value of the estate.

If <50k, the cheapest way is to go thru public trustee office.
https://pto.mlaw.gov.sg/
If >50k, you need a lawyer who will then appoint a Administrator/Executor amongst u and ur family. The question is then who to engage and how much etc.

Everything should be clearer after this stage.

 

[g_t2006]

No one want to buy a deceased car.

NONSENSE. I will buy if the car is in a good working condition. TS can PM me the details of the car. I'm looking to buy a COE car.

Someone bought my late father's vehicle too. DUH!

 

[g_t2006]

Stupid rule ... same as HDB, the deceased flat must be transferred to name of Administrator/Executor before the Administrator/Executor can sell the flat.

I don't see how stupid it is. It is to protect the person who sold/bought the vehicle/flat.

If there is no legal owner to the vehicle/flat, then the person buying will be buying from a dead person? Who will be responsible for future unforeseen issues like there's a dispute on the deceased's side?

It is time consuming and perhaps emotionally draining. I have gone thru this process. But as the legal owner of the vehicle that my late father possessed, I can do anything I want with the vehicle. I can make the final decision whether to keep the vehicle or sell it or give it to someone. What if everyone has a different opinion on what to do with the vehicle/flat?

 

[Geeezz]

Stupid rule ... same as HDB, the deceased flat must be transferred to name of Administrator/Executor before the Administrator/Executor can sell the flat.

What if the executor already had a flat under their name?

 

[BBCWatcher]

What if the executor already had a flat under their name?

The 6 month rule applies, presumably.

 

[henrylbh]

What if the executor already had a flat under their name?

Executor may not be the beneficiary. Nevertheless executor/administrator whether beneficiary of HDB flat or not is given 6 month to dispose the flat. I delayed getting probate from Dec to Jul and then I ding dong with HDB till Apr to relinguish my share of flat as beneficiary.

 

[Eternit]

Thanks guys for all the advice.

An update:

We decided to go with a lawyer to get letter of administration ($950 nett, meeting them next week), then using that to transfer ownership of car to my mother, then sell it.

I regret not using his Singpass to logon and do transfer of ownership online when I could do it. A day after his passing, I could still logon but I used that time to check banks, insurance accounts, then second day can't logon already, called Singpass customer service they say ICA will immediately terminate the Singpass account when they receive a death notice.

The car is a 2008 Toyota Wish (model WISH 1.8XE A), i think my Dad renewed the COE in 2018, so the current COE expires on 15 June 2028. No idea if it has outstanding loan though. The car has been parked in HDB parking lot for like 2 months, I think season parking expired, can't pay as well since cannot access Singpass (I hope they don't fine me).

Currently car battery flat, called a car dealer came down to see, can't start with a starter box, advised me to tow to a workshop and check first. I told him give me sometime to consider.

 

[bossjiaksai]

What if the executor already had a flat under their name?

No issue. But HDB will need you to complete the sale or transfer of flat within 1 year of the transmission. Anyway this kind of thing, the quicker you settle, the better it is too. Avoid racking up all the fees, admin trouble etc.