INTEL CPUs *OC Benchmark & Discussion*

[Encrypted11]

No 8800 C36 tune like the Apex, but not too bad on Z690.

The KLEVVs scale with voltage a lot better. LN2 block + Klevv brought 7800 C36 down to 7800 C32 GSAT. I dropped about 7C further on RAM load temps thanks to @elmariachi ’s thermal pad template and Gelid 15mK/w vs Bitspower’s all 1.0mm 5-7mK/w stuff.

New beta BIOS and MRC with pretty noticeable changes, looks like MSI did not configure the auto ODTs at all and don’t post past 7200 unless they’re manually keyed. Hopefully I’d be at 8000 C32 or 34 when the final BIOS uploads.

GSAT memory copy dropped because I dropped TREFI to a very conservative level since I’m testing on my OS SSD.

 

[matique]

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/37466473
New rig fully up and running, cpu now running under direct die and running well. No fear of cpu running too hot

 

[Koenig168]

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/37466473
New rig fully up and running, cpu now running under direct die and running well. No fear of cpu running too hot

impressive, nearly crack 40K

 

[matique]

FINAL_final_tune_v9.jpg

even later bioses couldn't enable me to do 8200, so i decided to just tighten down to 8000c32.

 

[Encrypted11]

MSI now has their version of armory crate in the new BIOS.
High MHz memory training improved slightly.

 

[uselessbum]

Has anyone seen any local shops selling z790 tachyon? It seems like gigabyte never bring to sg.

 

[matique]

Has anyone seen any local shops selling z790 tachyon? It seems like gigabyte never bring to sg.

tachyon has not been brought in for a few gens. I do know of someone locally who imported in a z790 tachyon though, it's a decent board but performance is very bios dependant + it won't run xmp flawlessly, needs manual tweaking. He's running 8200c34 fully tuned. You can keep a lookout for it from overseas vendors.

MSI now has their version of armory crate in the new BIOS.
High MHz memory training improved slightly.

really? I didn't notice it. Maybe not available for the eitx, even on the latest beta.

 

[matique]

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/38678964
Forgot to bench TSE with the new setup. 60p47e52r, 8000c32.

 

[Encrypted11]

really? I didn't notice it. Maybe not available for the eitx, even on the latest beta.

It’s in the last menu of where the PCH settings are. They don’t have a marketing name for it yet but appears to be armory crate based on description so I kept it disabled. (My BIOS date is 19 May with uCode 115)

8000 C34 looks hopeful after some 5 min GSAT runs, just need to work on timings most likely.

 

[uselessbum]

tachyon has not been brought in for a few gens. I do know of someone locally who imported in a z790 tachyon though, it's a decent board but performance is very bios dependant + it won't run xmp flawlessly, needs manual tweaking. He's running 8200c34 fully tuned. You can keep a lookout for it from overseas vendors.

Thank you for sharing.

Is Apex the most stable out of the 3(4 if count the msi itx one) 1dpc z790 mobos? Would something like the g.skill ddr5 8000 run stable xmp out of the box on it? Assuming one does not lose the CPU IMC lottery.

 

[kimsix]

Thank you for sharing.

Is Apex is most stable out of the 3(4 if count the msi itx one) 1dpc z790 mobos? Would something like the g.skill ddr5 8000 run stable xmp out of the box on it? Assuming one does not lose the CPU IMC lottery.

how about evga z690, because of evga brand name...

ddr5 8000 need high voltage and cooling on dram. so go with something older and slower

https://www.newegg.com/global/sg-en/p/1JW-001N-000H1?
https://www.amazon.sg/EVGA-121-AL-E699-KR-WiFi6E-Gen2x2-Motherboard/dp/B0B2BYFPRF

 

[matique]

Thank you for sharing.

Is Apex the most stable out of the 3(4 if count the msi itx one) 1dpc z790 mobos? Would something like the g.skill ddr5 8000 run stable xmp out of the box on it? Assuming one does not lose the CPU IMC lottery.

You have a few 1dpc boards for the platform, with only the apex and the edge itx being sold locally for Z790.

Asus Apex Z690/Z790
Asus Strix Z690/Z790
MSI Edge ITX Z790
MSI Unify ITX Z690
MSI Unify-x Z690
Giga Tachyon Z690/Z790
Giga Aorus Plus Ultra ITX Z690
Asrock Aqua OC Z690
EVGA Dark Z690/Z790

Bolded boards are available locally. The rest if you want, need to import. And yes Apex Z790 will be the most stable out of the lot, as it has extensive bios development thanks to Bing and Shamino. Some XMP kits (8000-8200) are on QVLed by the Apex lol, that's how much better it is compared to other boards.

That said, bad apexes are out there too. They are not made in mass, and some QC issues would be apparent. Like 90% of apex boards are bent!!! need to tighten/loosen the heatsinks accordingly, some area also use too thick thermal pad iirc. Some boards can't clock really high too, board binning is apparently a thing too for the apex to reach >8600 daily.

On top of that, getting a high daily depends on your CPU IMC as well, plus need to see if your ram is capable of it, gotta consider ram cooling as well. Finally, need to see how patient you are since it requires time + effort.

 

[uselessbum]

You have a few 1dpc boards for the platform, with only the apex and the edge itx being sold locally for Z790.

Asus Apex Z690/Z790
Asus Strix Z690/Z790
MSI Edge ITX Z790
MSI Unify ITX Z690
MSI Unify-x Z690
Giga Tachyon Z690/Z790
Giga Aorus Plus Ultra ITX Z690
Asrock Aqua OC Z690
EVGA Dark Z690/Z790

Bolded boards are available locally. The rest if you want, need to import. And yes Apex Z790 will be the most stable out of the lot, as it has extensive bios development thanks to Bing and Shamino. Some XMP kits (8000-8200) are on QVLed by the Apex lol, that's how much better it is compared to other boards.

That said, bad apexes are out there too. They are not made in mass, and some QC issues would be apparent. Like 90% of apex boards are bent!!! need to tighten/loosen the heatsinks accordingly, some area also use too thick thermal pad iirc. Some boards can't clock really high too, board binning is apparently a thing too for the apex to reach >8600 daily.

On top of that, getting a high daily depends on your CPU IMC as well, plus need to see if your ram is capable of it, gotta consider ram cooling as well. Finally, need to see how patient you are since it requires time + effort.

Thanks to both you and kimsix for the reminder that Z690 1dpc boards are still viable.

Thanks also for pointing out the bent APEXes. I didn't even know about it till you pointed out.....omg, just what is ASUS doing until can hit 90%. I assume other than being physically ugly and worrying, such warping won't cause any real damage in the long term?

QVL doesn't seem to mean much nowadays because I have seen a lot of horror stories about ram not being able to run stock xmp settings on mobos that were on the QVL list.

I'm planning to run air cooling (i have the corsair air cooling add on for ram) on my ram so no fancy LN2 or water blocks. As such, even if I get, I won't go beyond the stock xmp that g.skill set. That's why I'm trying to find feedback as to whether g.skill or teamgroup stock 8000(or anything above 7200) is stable on such 1dpc boards.

I read through the overclockers thread on another forum but they were mostly relating to generic green pcb hynix or black pcb klevv ones and using water blocks while running extremely tight timings at high vdimm 1.5v+.

 

[Encrypted11]

On the RAM side, single sided (2Gb A-die x 8)
Hynix green OEMs or Klevv black OEMs rated at JEDEC-5600 + a good heat sink are all you need.

8000 C38 is a really low bar set in terms of binning for the pretested g.skill kits.

G.Skill has been buying in bulk the downbin 4800MT/s version of Hynix A-die and up binning the good ones for their top SKU instead of better ones available. The 8000-8200 kit uses the best 4800MT/s ICs they can find.

I’ve previously had unbinned G.skill Z5 A-dies and now unbinned Klevv OEMs, they’re at least 4CL and 400MHz+ better from the vf scaling differences. In corner cases there are 8800+ OCs done with these.

 

[kimsix]

gskill 8000 must super marked up.

better off try your luck with 2x32gb dual ranked like this https://www.amazon.sg/TEAMGROUP-T-Create-Overclocking-6000MHz-PC5-48000/dp/B0BPHSL93T/

likely A-dies, can try for 6800-7200 on evga z690. dual ranked helps a bit, to overcome 8000 bah

but is e-atx board, at least got global warranty, die already evga swap you z790 hopefully

user with 6400 experience
https://www.overclock.net/threads/oc-teamgroup-t-create-6400-2x32-64gb-6800-32-39-39-51.1805437/

 

[matique]

Thanks to both you and kimsix for the reminder that Z690 1dpc boards are still viable.

Thanks also for pointing out the bent APEXes. I didn't even know about it till you pointed out.....omg, just what is ASUS doing until can hit 90%. I assume other than being physically ugly and worrying, such warping won't cause any real damage in the long term?

QVL doesn't seem to mean much nowadays because I have seen a lot of horror stories about ram not being able to run stock xmp settings on mobos that were on the QVL list.

I'm planning to run air cooling (i have the corsair air cooling add on for ram) on my ram so no fancy LN2 or water blocks. As such, even if I get, I won't go beyond the stock xmp that g.skill set. That's why I'm trying to find feedback as to whether g.skill or teamgroup stock 8000(or anything above 7200) is stable on such 1dpc boards.

I read through the overclockers thread on another forum but they were mostly relating to generic green pcb hynix or black pcb klevv ones and using water blocks while running extremely tight timings at high vdimm 1.5v+.

Just note that z690 boards will have lower headroom vs z790 boards. Board manufacturers learnt quite a bit and improved on board traces + bios to allow for higher frequencies. For the z690 apex, it's downright broken on one of the channels and can't go above 7000, unless you get the absolute last 2023 revision. For z690 unify-x + itx, it will go up to 7800 or so, but can run quite tight. I think some z690 tachyons that are binned well can hit 8000. The z690 dark is also a mixed bag, some doing okay, some not. But the dark board is more for OCing on the top end, and it's a bit harder to get it stable enough for daily. Z690 Aqua OC supposedly does really well with adie, specifically green sticks since Splave helped with tuning it.

For z790 apex bending issue, the fix is easy, just need to replace any pad that is too thick, or loosen up the screws a little. It's a big QC oversight, not sure if later versions are fixed. Generally, the 8000 kits would be a mixed bag on any board, might need to tune VDD/Q to get it to be proper stable, but it runs loose anyway so might not need to do much tweaking.

I too am running greensticks hehe. When adie first came out, they were the first few sticks to be known adie, and were stupid cheap compared to what gskill/teamgroup etc were charging then. Now you can get cheap adie teamgroup create kits lol, i think their 5600 kits are also adie.

In terms of only cooling it with a ram fan, I think it's still viable but expect to not run it super tight, as some timings are very sensitive to temps such as trefi and twr i think. I run mine blocked and they run +2K delta of coolant, even at 1.6v.

On the RAM side, single sided (2Gb A-die x 8)
Hynix green OEMs or Klevv black OEMs rated at JEDEC-5600 + a good heat sink are all you need.

8000 C38 is a really low bar set in terms of binning for the pretested g.skill kits.

G.Skill has been buying in bulk the downbin 4800MT/s version of Hynix A-die and up binning the good ones for their top SKU instead of better ones available. The 8000-8200 kit uses the best 4800MT/s ICs they can find.

I’ve previously had unbinned G.skill Z5 A-dies and now unbinned Klevv OEMs, they’re at least 4CL and 400MHz+ better from the vf scaling differences. In corner cases there are 8800+ OCs done with these.

OEM Adie greensticks w/ iceman ram block. No complaints about the sticks, they're good. It's just that hwinfo reading on it is a bit messed up when doing pmic override, and has a bit of droop. 1.66v set = 1.635v get.

gskill 8000 must super marked up.

better off try your luck with 2x32gb dual ranked like this https://www.amazon.sg/TEAMGROUP-T-Create-Overclocking-6000MHz-PC5-48000/dp/B0BPHSL93T/

likely A-dies, can try for 6800-7200 on evga z690. dual ranked helps a bit, to overcome 8000 bah

but is e-atx board, at least got global warranty, die already evga swap you z790 hopefully

user with 6400 experience
https://www.overclock.net/threads/oc-teamgroup-t-create-6400-2x32-64gb-6800-32-39-39-51.1805437/

I would honestly skip 32x2 and go for 24x2. 32x2 requires a lot of manual tweaking to make it run well, and the DR nature of it sometimes can't compensate for speed and tightness of SR. The new 24x2 adie kits clock as well if not better than 16x2 adie.

 

[Koenig168]

.....
I would honestly skip 32x2 and go for 24x2. 32x2 requires a lot of manual tweaking to make it run well, and the DR nature of it sometimes can't compensate for speed and tightness of SR. The new 24x2 adie kits clock as well if not better than 16x2 adie.

Does this apply to AMD as well? Don't think I've seen any 2X24 with EXPO.

 

[kimsix]

I would honestly skip 32x2 and go for 24x2. 32x2 requires a lot of manual tweaking to make it run well, and the DR nature of it sometimes can't compensate for speed and tightness of SR. The new 24x2 adie kits clock as well if not better than 16x2 adie.

for now imo the 24x2 markup not worth losing the capacity and 5-6% performance loss of minimal fps ?

Does this apply to AMD as well? Don't think I've seen any 2X24 with EXPO.

amd i using cbeap kingston a-die 2x32, with low speed and ok tightness.

amd mem controller may not run as fast as intel but it can do it tight 1:1, 1T and gdm off with low voltages. so no point buyed fast 2x24.

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...ead-31-faster-than-adl.6753659/post-147645433

 

[Mach3.2]

2*24GB kits a bit in no man's land IMO. if 32GB isn't enough, 48GB isn't exactly that far off from 32GB and you still might have issues with not enough RAM.

The 2*48GB DIMMs are interesting though.

 

[Encrypted11]

16GB = 2Gb ICs (A die) x 8 (Single Rank)
32GB = 2Gb ICs (A die) x 16 (Dual Rank)
24GB = 1st Gen 3Gb ICs (M die) x 8 (Single Rank)
48GB = 3Gb M die’s Dual Rank

From a compatibility and latency standpoint, SR kits run a lot tighter and higher frequency since board vendors perform targeted tuning on top of the basic MRC (Intel) part of the BIOS. Single Rank tuning has the highest impact on users. Dual ranks receive a lot less attention in early cycle of DDR5. Unlike in the late cycle of DDR4, even the dual ranks run 5GHz.

Probably should go for SR sticks over DR at least for another cycle, especially when the ceiling for RAM performance has the lowest priority on the list of concerns. (Toppc from MSI mentioned CPU IMCs, MB trace routing/Signaling tech hasn’t really caught up with the best DDR5 ICs so far). DR will likely be more viable when SRs are close to saturation as the tuning effort starts to change.

3Gb M die’s pricing should be better once production ramps and when they’re available in OEM reference green stick / Klevv OEM format spoiling the IC vendors’ markup.