INTEL CPUs *OC Benchmark & Discussion*

[purpleberry]

DDR4 won't survive for long. I recall LGA 1700 is only meant for 2 generations, and existing Intel boards may be compatible with Raptor Lake. Post Raptor Lake, I doubt Intel will support DDR4 even if DDR5 availability is poor. If AMD is going all DDR5 with Zen 4, then next gen CPUs will likely be the last time we see DDR4.

To me, Alder Lake is a great come back for Intel, but I cannot help but feel that Intel may have messed up the release very badly. The ongoing shortages may have contributed to it, but I think about why Alder Lake is not selling well, and these are some of the reasons I faced when I was planning to get it,
1. No DDR5 - Like I can't even find it late last year. I've not even gotten to the problem of DDR5 price.
2. Because no DDR5, so I looked for DDR4 boards. I was specifically looking for ITX, but not a single one available. The only Gigabyte Z690i on pre-order cost like mid 500s. The review is bad, it is ultra cram and I don't appreciate their poor response on the PSU saga, so hard pass. Options are thin even on MATX.
3. Barely any cooler with LGA 1700 support out of the box. Most require you to send in invoice and wait for them to ship it.
All these are just the hardware aspects of it. The situation has improved, but only slightly better. For software, I feel it is still on mushy ground. It may not be an Intel problem, but since I moved to Win 11 to try it out, the first game I launched, I got an error that shows no message when I stopped the game. Talk about stability. For people trying out Alder Lake with no E-cores, best to stick with Win 10.

Which board and case did you get in the end? I am quite interested to go for Noctua NH-D15 but see how the case can fit or not.

 

[watzup_ken]

I wouldn't blame the supply of DDR5 on Intel completely. Many thought Alderlake would just be another Intel release with slight improvements so supply side especially PMIC chips were not able to catch up to the massive demand for 12th Gen. Massive demand again means not local context. I mean global.

AMD, if they had released DDR5 first would be in the same position as well perhaps slightly better if people based on Zen3's success. The good thing is that the Intel platform has a headstart on DDR5 tuning and many bugs have been sorted but there is still alot of work for plug and play compatibility as far as DDR5 is concerned. It's a pain in the ass to get stable even on XMP. And the learning curve is steep. But I'm blown away by the potential DDR5 has in the future given the current progress. Too good.

I've been getting my new Hynix 6400C32 kit stable last 2 days and 6400C30 is a great start. People are already 6800/7000 stable with the right setup.

One thing about Windows 11 is that there was a period Microsoft was solving issues for Ryzen's performance for Windows 11 and it broke game stability for particularly AVX games even on Intel CPUs. I had that too in Vanguard and I was advised to change to an earlier Windows 11 build that solved my issue. I think with the latest 469 build everything is back to normal including the performance drop for NVME on Windows 11 which was an issue December last year.

You can use Windows 10 if you're disabling E-cores. I've disabled them on mine as they aren't doing anything during gaming. So I pushed my P-Core to 5.5Ghz and Ring bus to 4.7Ghz which also improved memory latency. But I'm quite happy with Windows 11 now and quite like it even performance wise.

12th Gen is a mixed bag for starters as DDR5 stability even on XMP isn't perfect with some boards. And earlier G.Skills had some issues with their kits and stability which had nothing to do with the board/bios. They came out with a newer one with a slightly looser TRAS timing and 0.05V higher voltage. So those wanting to hop on to 12th Gen, homework is needed it's not blind buy and fix hoping for everything to work.

The supply chain issue likely have a part to play in the shortage of DDR5 ram, but it is not just DDR5 that is in such short supply. Even compatible cooler was very difficult to find. Even at this point, most coolers don't indicate whether there is LGA 1700 support right out of the box. Given that almost every cooler manufacturer seems to have this problem, again may be a combination of supply chain issue and perhaps to some extend that Intel shared the mounting design very late with them.

My observations is that Alder Lake isn't selling that well especially in the month of Dec 2021 and Jan 2022. Usually when there is some hot CPU on sale, these Intel chips will be really hard to find. But if you comb any e-platforms, almost all the models are available. Therefore my hunch is that the few hurdles, including OS that really deterred most people apart from PC enthusiasts to get an Alder Lake system. Just my opinion, but I may be wrong.

Been using Win 11 for a few days, but it feels very unstable to me. Besides that mysterious error message with no error mentioned, using MS Edge tend to throw out an error where it is unable to load this page properly. Will continue to monitor.

 

[watzup_ken]

Which board and case did you get in the end? I am quite interested to go for Noctua NH-D15 but see how the case can fit or not.

Noctua D15 will easy manage the heat output from an i7 12700K even with minor OC. Reviews have shown that it is as capable as most good 240mm AIO cooler. But you should expect temps to hover around say late 70s under load and good airflow case.

I've not used the Noctua D15, but after my experience using the BeQuiet Dark Rock 4 Pro, I would prefer not to install such a massive cooler in my case. Depending on the layout of the motherboard, the heatsink is massive and blocks almost everything around it. So if I want to unplug fan cable, motherboard 8 pin power cable, remove RAM, remove GPU and remove NVME SSD, I may need to remove the cooler. I was using a MATX board with a 3900X previously in a Corsair 450D case.

 

[Kairos]

...

I've not used the Noctua D15, but after my experience using the BeQuiet Dark Rock 4 Pro, I would prefer not to install such a massive cooler in my case. Depending on the layout of the motherboard, the heatsink is massive and blocks almost everything around it. So if I want to unplug fan cable, motherboard 8 pin power cable, remove RAM, remove GPU and remove NVME SSD, I may need to remove the cooler. I was using a MATX board with a 3900X previously in a Corsair 450D case.

Can consider D15S.

Using one myself; deadly (in cooling) & silent at nigh:

 

[Kairos]

...

Been using Win 11 for a few days, but it feels very unstable to me. Besides that mysterious error message with no error mentioned, using MS Edge tend to throw out an error where it is unable to load this page properly. Will continue to monitor.

Maybe clean install will solve the issue?

 

[watzup_ken]

Maybe clean install will solve the issue?

Yes, I did a clean install. The issues are quite random, and I will notice some issue each time I log in. Haha.

 

[watzup_ken]

Can consider D15S.

Using one myself; deadly (in cooling) & silent at nigh:

I feel one cannot go wrong with Noctua's D15 series. The only strong competitor is Deepcool Assassin III.

 

[ragnarok95]

Actually i'm quite tempt to change my 10700F to a 12700F.

Since can use back same DDR4.

 

[purpleberry]

Noctua D15 will easy manage the heat output from an i7 12700K even with minor OC. Reviews have shown that it is as capable as most good 240mm AIO cooler. But you should expect temps to hover around say late 70s under load and good airflow case.

I've not used the Noctua D15, but after my experience using the BeQuiet Dark Rock 4 Pro, I would prefer not to install such a massive cooler in my case. Depending on the layout of the motherboard, the heatsink is massive and blocks almost everything around it. So if I want to unplug fan cable, motherboard 8 pin power cable, remove RAM, remove GPU and remove NVME SSD, I may need to remove the cooler. I was using a MATX board with a 3900X previously in a Corsair 450D case.

Which ITX board did you get in the end? Is Gigabyte B660I or Z690I that bad? Considering to setup SFF but if this is the only choice, I might go for Tecware Fusion case that supports mATX.

 

[ragnarok95]

Can try Noctua U12A also.

 

[matique]

Think a huge deterrent for ADL is lack of ddr4 board choices. There are some, but not a lot. Itx ones are a joke too, but I heard the gigabyte z690i is getting better with latest updates. Not sure if whea problem solved or not.

Strix Z690i is a great board with not much issues, it's just that ddr5 performance on it isn't the most stable after 6400. Great CPU oc though, especially with vf curve and per core.

MSI z690i unify has insanely good ram performance, but sub par cpu oc in terms of vf curve and per core. It also has very high auto voltages. Added benefit of triple m.2 is nice.

Having both boards, I decided to keep the msi unify. It's a great board all around, can't fault it much other than lack of per core oc working properly at reasonable voltages. Currently have it at 5.3p/4.1e/4.2ring, 1.38V w/ 6666c36 ram.

I would say all the itx boards have horrible cooler support, essentially gotta go all out custom cooling to keep adl cool and have everything fit.

 

[purpleberry]

Think a huge deterrent for ADL is lack of ddr4 board choices. There are some, but not a lot. Itx ones are a joke too, but I heard the gigabyte z690i is getting better with latest updates. Not sure if whea problem solved or not.

Strix Z690i is a great board with not much issues, it's just that ddr5 performance on it isn't the most stable after 6400. Great CPU oc though, especially with vf curve and per core.

MSI z690i unify has insanely good ram performance, but sub par cpu oc in terms of vf curve and per core. It also has very high auto voltages. Added benefit of triple m.2 is nice.

Having both boards, I decided to keep the msi unify. It's a great board all around, can't fault it much other than lack of per core oc working properly at reasonable voltages. Currently have it at 5.3p/4.1e/4.2ring, 1.38V w/ 6666c36 ram.

I would say all the itx boards have horrible cooler support, essentially gotta go all out custom cooling to keep adl cool and have everything fit.

Do you have any advice for mATX options for non-overclockers? Can safely rule out ITX for now due to lack of DDR4 variety. Perhaps have to wait until DDR5 is more affordable.

 

[matique]

Do you have any advice for mATX options for non-overclockers? Can safely rule out ITX for now due to lack of DDR4 variety. Perhaps have to wait until DDR5 is more affordable.

Unfortunately matx isn't an area I've checked out much. For Asus there's the prime matx z690, or tuf B660. Both are ddr4. Gigabyte has their Z690M which seems to be nice hardware wise, but unsure on bios. Asrock has Z690M too but it looks quite barebones...

 

[watzup_ken]

Do you have any advice for mATX options for non-overclockers? Can safely rule out ITX for now due to lack of DDR4 variety. Perhaps have to wait until DDR5 is more affordable.

If it is MATX, then I think you can't go wrong with the likes of MSI B660M Mortar or Asus TUF B660M, both have DDR4 variants.

 

[watzup_ken]

Which ITX board did you get in the end? Is Gigabyte B660I or Z690I that bad? Considering to setup SFF but if this is the only choice, I might go for Tecware Fusion case that supports mATX.

I did not get ITX in the end. I feel it is becoming less feasible to get an ITX setup nowadays. At least not without quite a bit of hassle. Tecware Fusion may be a good choice since it supports both ITX and MATX.

 

[curryloti]

Budget build with some old recycled parts like RAM, Noctua...

​

Yeap, took some $$$, time and effort to get this going but happy like siao now.

 

[watzup_ken]

Budget build with some old recycled parts like RAM, Noctua...

​

Yeap, took some $$$, time and effort to get this going but happy like siao now.

i7 12700K and Z690 motherboard is not so budget la. But it is a good build.

 

[purpleberry]

Budget build with some old recycled parts like RAM, Noctua...

​

Yeap, took some $$$, time and effort to get this going but happy like siao now.

Which Noctua fan did you get?

 

[xonix]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-rog-washers-alder-lake-cpu-warping-woes

Washer Config	P0 max Δ	P1 max Δ	P2 max Δ	P3 max Δ	P4 max Δ	P5 max Δ	P6 max Δ	P7 max Δ	Average	Improvement
none/stock	69.5	82.5	73.7	86.6	75	83.6	73.7	74.8	76.64	N/A
0.5 mm	66.4	79.1	70.2	83.7	72.3	79	69.3	70.7	73.84	-2.8
0.8 mm	67.1	77.9	70.2	82.6	72.3	78.4	70.2	70.5	73.65	-2.99
1.0 mm	63.9	74.8	67.2	79.3	69.3	77.4	67	68.1	70.88	-5.76
1.3 mm	64.2	75.2	68.1	80.1	70.2	77.9	68.1	69	71.6	-5.04

 

[Phen8210]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-rog-washers-alder-lake-cpu-warping-woes

Washer Config	P0 max Δ	P1 max Δ	P2 max Δ	P3 max Δ	P4 max Δ	P5 max Δ	P6 max Δ	P7 max Δ	Average	Improvement
none/stock	69.5	82.5	73.7	86.6	75	83.6	73.7	74.8	76.64	N/A
0.5 mm	66.4	79.1	70.2	83.7	72.3	79	69.3	70.7	73.84	-2.8
0.8 mm	67.1	77.9	70.2	82.6	72.3	78.4	70.2	70.5	73.65	-2.99
1.0 mm	63.9	74.8	67.2	79.3	69.3	77.4	67	68.1	70.88	-5.76
1.3 mm	64.2	75.2	68.1	80.1	70.2	77.9	68.1	69	71.6	-5.04

Seems like many of the mounting brackets for alder lake still in a open beta phase.