Intel Lunar Lake: RIP

[watzup_ken]

https://wccftech.com/intel-amd-join-hands-accelerate-development-unified-x86-ecosystem/

Intel joins hands with AMD to work together on x86.

Now that ARM is eating their cake, they finally do something.
x86 in the current state is confirmed to be uncompetitive to ARM in the mobile space.

ARM is actually eating into the lucrative data center for some time. Now that they are also starting to "attack" on the next lucrative mobile space is definitely causing both Intel and AMD to panic. The one that stands to lose the most is actually Intel because they dominate the mobile segment even till now. The market share of AMD based laptops is probably still very low compared to Intel based laptops. Hence, the 360 degree turn around by Intel to focus on efficiency. Fortunately for Intel, Windows has always been optimized for x86, so it may not be that easy or fast for ARM to gain substantial footing. Until these emulation and compatibility issues go away, x86 will still be safe, though the "pie" is shrinking.

 

[stanlawj]

Dell XPS 13: QC Snapdragon X vs Intel Lunar Lake.



Conclusions: ARM wins on CPU and battery life. Intel wins on gaming and virtual machine.

 

[watzup_ken]

Dell XPS 13: QC Snapdragon X vs Intel Lunar Lake.



Conclusions: ARM wins on CPU and battery life. Intel wins on gaming and virtual machine.

I think the outcome is to be expected. I do think that the Snapdragon Elite is actually doing better than expected given it is not running a lot of applications natively and there will be extra processing overheads to emulate the software. I am thinking if all these software actually runs natively on these Qualcomm chips, the battery life gap is going to widen. Qualcomm's immediate issue is to sort out those incompatibilities to make them more attractive.

 

[chaiscool]

I think the outcome is to be expected. I do think that the Snapdragon Elite is actually doing better than expected given it is not running a lot of applications natively and there will be extra processing overheads to emulate the software. I am thinking if all these software actually runs natively on these Qualcomm chips, the battery life gap is going to widen. Qualcomm's immediate issue is to sort out those incompatibilities to make them more attractive.

Qualcomm no control or power on the software optimization. Hence, apple satki and control both via vertical integration.

Easier and more likely for intel to catch up with battery gap then waiting for arm to be optimized for windows.

 

[watzup_ken]

Qualcomm no control or power on the software optimization. Hence, apple satki and control both via vertical integration.

Easier and more likely for intel to catch up with battery gap then waiting for arm to be optimized for windows.

I feel each platform will have its own problems. While Apple have full control of software and hardware, the main problem with Apple under Tim is the sloppiness of making improvement in anything. For example, the design of every single product looks pretty much the same for the past 4 or more generations. The M class processors barely moved the IPC needle moving from M1 to M3. Each passing M class SOC "improved" because of higher power requirements to push for higher clock speed and marginally higher CPU and GPU core counts. Change in Apple world is moving at a glacial pace.

On the Windows and Android side of things, competition is very intense and we can see hardware improving really quickly. So it is possible that even though the likes of Windows optimization will be very slow, the hardware improvements may allow the likes of Qualcomm to catch up. I am very interested to see the results of Mediatek and Nvidia's partnership to deliver a laptop class ARM SOC next year.

 

[chaiscool]

I feel each platform will have its own problems. While Apple have full control of software and hardware, the main problem with Apple under Tim is the sloppiness of making improvement in anything. For example, the design of every single product looks pretty much the same for the past 4 or more generations. The M class processors barely moved the IPC needle moving from M1 to M3. Each passing M class SOC "improved" because of higher power requirements to push for higher clock speed and marginally higher CPU and GPU core counts. Change in Apple world is moving at a glacial pace.

On the Windows and Android side of things, competition is very intense and we can see hardware improving really quickly. So it is possible that even though the likes of Windows optimization will be very slow, the hardware improvements may allow the likes of Qualcomm to catch up. I am very interested to see the results of Mediatek and Nvidia's partnership to deliver a laptop class ARM SOC next year.

Cannot view them in vacuum lah. The reason why apple m chip "stagnant" and intel / arm suddenly rapid progress is due to competition one. Apple so far ahead when they release m1 that they slacking like intel did all this time.

See how fast intel suddenly can leap with meteor lake and lunar lake. Suddenly huge leap in 1 year after years of being stagnant.

 

[watzup_ken]

Anyway, I think for potential Lunar Lake buyers who are looking to game on it, I am sharing the below video. I have been watching the Lunar Lake performance on this channel for awhile, and I think you should know that while the Arc iGPU is quite potent, it is not always as potent as it sound when just looking at the average FPS. I think you should keep an eye on all the frame time graphs in all the games.

 

[hkchew03]

Ryzen zen4/5 is still a safer bet for now, Lunar lake only if you need the power efficiency.
At least it is a good start for Intel, hopefully they can come back into the game in 1 or 2 more generation.
Arrow lake seems more worrisome tho.

 

[watzup_ken]

Ryzen zen4/5 is still a safer bet for now, Lunar lake only if you need the power efficiency.
At least it is a good start for Intel, hopefully they can come back into the game in 1 or 2 more generation.
Arrow lake seems more worrisome tho.

I think it is a decent processor for light work or study use. But I think people should be aware of the pitfalls in order to make an informed decision to buy it. For games, I think it is still quite iffy in terms of performance consistency. Most reviews only tell you the 0.1% lows and average frame rate. But I feel it is more important to look at the frame time graph to measure consistency over time.

Nonetheless, I think Intel delivered a good chip with Lunar Lake and a wake up slap in AMD's face when it comes to iGPU performance. I feel if Intel's iGPU did not see a significant improvement this gen, AMD will just slowly roll out RDNA 3.5, 3.6. 3.7, 3.8, etc...

 

[hkchew03]

I think it is a decent processor for light work or study use. But I think people should be aware of the pitfalls in order to make an informed decision to buy it. For games, I think it is still quite iffy in terms of performance consistency. Most reviews only tell you the 0.1% lows and average frame rate. But I feel it is more important to look at the frame time graph to measure consistency over time.

Nonetheless, I think Intel delivered a good chip with Lunar Lake and a wake up slap in AMD's face when it comes to iGPU performance. I feel if Intel's iGPU did not see a significant improvement this gen, AMD will just slowly roll out RDNA 3.5, 3.6. 3.7, 3.8, etc...

Comes down to pricing, but base on current available and the previous gen, it isn't worth it unless you really need the battery life. But even then, the strix point might still be a little more consistent and possibly at a lower price point. Actualy the iGPU got beefed up quite a bit compared to last gen, but only at the lower power range. LL is just not efficient at higher TDP, which is why Intel kept using lower range TDP for most of their comparison, it just doesn't scale as well in higher TDP compared to Ryzen. Its probably good for handheld console tho, but for laptop, you want the capability to scale up and down with different usage.

 

[watzup_ken]

In my opinion, Lunar Lake can do with more power. The CPU may not be power hungry, but I cannot say the same about the iGPU. To achieve this low power, Intel hard capped the power limit at the expense of performance. But of course, the more power you feed it, the performance gain will start to plateau. May be Intel decided to go with the most efficient clockspeed to keep to thelow TDP. I guess they observed that people want an ARM based laptop, be it a Apple M series or Qualcomm Elite chip, and so think this is the best approach.

 

[stanlawj]

battery life comparison: Lunar Lake vs Snapdragon X vs Ryzen 9 HX vs Macbook

 

[stanlawj]

Intel Lunar Lake's revolutionary low power usage enables handheld gaming device.

https://wccftech.com/tencent-x-inte...-featuring-intels-lunar-lake-11-inch-display/

This is a transformable tablet.

 

[xiaofan]

Lunar Lake may not be so bad.

We have two Acer Swift Go 14 OLED 2024 laptop at home with Core Ultra 5 125H CPU (Meteor Lake) and they are pretty fine for basic usage (used by my wife and my daughter now). Lunar Lake will be a bit better than Meteor Lake.

The Raptor Lake refresh is really bad -- I think it is better to avoid them in 2025.
https://videocardz.com/newz/honor-l...tor-lake-h-refresh-now-available-for-preorder

 

[xiaofan]

AMD Zen 5 CPU based laptops are pretty expensive now (AMD Ryzen AI Pro 300), out of my budget of S$1000 to S$1200 for a thin and light laptop anyway.
https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/rev...md-ryzen-ai-9-hx-370-processor-copilot-laptop

Let's see how it goes in 2025.

Intel Core Ultra 200V (Lunar Lake) -- Intel Core Ultra 200H/HX (Arrow Lake-H/HX) -- AMD Ryzen AI 300 (Zen 5) -- AMD Ryzen AI 200 -- Qualcomm Snapdrago Elite X (ARM64) -- Apple M4

 

[stanlawj]

Lunar Lake may not be so bad.

We have two Acer Swift Go 14 OLED 2024 laptop at home with Core Ultra 5 125H CPU (Meteor Lake) and they are pretty fine for basic usage (used by my wife and my daughter now). Lunar Lake will be a bit better than Meteor Lake.

The Raptor Lake refresh is really bad -- I think it is better to avoid them in 2025.
https://videocardz.com/newz/honor-l...tor-lake-h-refresh-now-available-for-preorder

Lunar Lake should be fine for everyday usage and is what Meteor Lake should have been. The problem is the pricing and availability due to the TSMC supplier.

 

[xiaofan]

Chinese GeekerWan review of Lunar Lake -- seems to be quite decent, pretty good option for Thin and Light laptop.

Intel Core Ultra 7 258V -- Apple M3 -- Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite -- AMD AI 9 HX 370 -- Intel Core Ultra 9 185H

 

[stanlawj]

Chinese GeekerWan review of Lunar Lake -- seems to be quite decent, pretty good option for Thin and Light laptop.

I'm looking forward to the Lunar Lake edition of Lenovo Yogabook 9i, which I think will only be released in Q1 2025.

 

[watzup_ken]

AMD Zen 5 CPU based laptops are pretty expensive now (AMD Ryzen AI Pro 300), out of my budget of S$1000 to S$1200 for a thin and light laptop anyway.
https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/rev...md-ryzen-ai-9-hx-370-processor-copilot-laptop

Let's see how it goes in 2025.

Intel Core Ultra 200V (Lunar Lake) -- Intel Core Ultra 200H/HX (Arrow Lake-H/HX) -- AMD Ryzen AI 300 (Zen 5) -- AMD Ryzen AI 200 -- Qualcomm Snapdrago Elite X (ARM64) -- Apple M4

I do agree that AMD Ryzen AI solutions are way too expensive now. I guess the defence is more because we are getting a lot more processing power, while Lunar Lake is really targeting more everyday use by prioritising battery life with good enough processing capabilities. So I can imagine it will cost AMD more to produce their chip. I think AMD can counter with a lower CPU core count chip with a full 16CU iGPU to allow them to have something more cost effective to compete. Currently, only the 12 and 16 CPU cores variant gets the flagship iGPU. The higher core count is good for multithreaded process, but may not be meaningful for gamers or light/ casual use.

 

[Phen8210]

I dont understand the purpose of this thread lol, no head no tail