jogging and motivation thread

[Kuudere]

that's my target for next year end too. 90mins HM hopefully.

Will try to improve on a few points:

1. 55km/week (current) > 60km/week (1st half of year) and 65km/week (2nd half of year)
2. Long run build up to >21km (cap at 25km)
3. Build up to the long interval (3 x 4km @ 4.15 > 4.10 > 4.05 @ 2 minute rest) First 2 sets should be controlled, last set should push to limit

Will see how it goes

 

[xllms]

And then of coz, PB 4.0 @ 449 now only.

Unfortunately with 14 pairs of shoes, i can't finish. So tempted but really not much use coz mileage not high anyway.

my pb3.0 rear outsoles still not worn out after clocking more than 200km on my app! Damn I am so tempted to buy pb4.0

 

[milkiee]

If you have alot of time, it will help for some people. FOr me, limited if the goal is to reduce HR vs pace. I thin once I reached around 6:30 pace for 128bpm, I couldn't progress liao. But even if plateau, can use MAF running as a recovery run while doing your polarize or pyramidal training.

How much base you need? For runners, as much as you can without compromising on your recovery. The main metrics for base is just weekly mileage for most runners. It's like a serious marathon runner would typically have a weekly mileage of 80 km/week. So a person who only did 10km race when transit to marathon will have to build his base to at least 60km a week before embarking in the first phase of his periodize training. But if the runner regularly runs 60+km a week with his 80/20 or MAF during off season, he can skip 1st phase and start on a 12-week marathon training instead of a 18week periodize training.

Having a minimum base would minimize injuries and build resilience to take on higher training loads of a marathon training which can peak above 80km a week for beginners plan, advance runner can peak up more than 110km a week. It built resilience.

Have you notice all marathon training plans are pyramidal, including TAO. There's alot of zone 3 and zone 4 running. It's nothing like the 80/20. Main reason is there is a target time goal, and usually this target goal will be in your zone 3 or 4. And so need to spend some time training near that intensity, that's why TAO have progression, pickup, threshold run.

Anyway being runner, got opportunity, when nothing to do, just go for an easy run to add on to your base.

thanks for the sharing. i only run 3 times a week for now so my peak is at 40km per week.
however this is all based on economy runs as per recommended by TAO.
i could increase my mileage further if i add in one more run and convert one economy run to threshold but it will only be 50km at most.

i guess i have to trial and error to see if i can find the right balance on achieving my target with minimum mileage.

 

[milkiee]

Will try to improve on a few points:

1. 55km/week (current) > 60km/week (1st half of year) and 65km/week (2nd half of year)
2. Long run build up to >21km (cap at 25km)
3. Build up to the long interval (3 x 4km @ 4.15 > 4.10 > 4.05 @ 2 minute rest) First 2 sets should be controlled, last set should push to limit

Will see how it goes

i have set a 5k time trial at 20mins in 3 months time.

current plan will be 3 runs per week as well with 1 economy, 1 threshold interval and 1 long run.

economy @ usual z2 pace
threshold @ 8 x 1km with 1 min rest in between
long run @ z2 pace or progressive or tempo (either 1 of it or mixture)

will see how this plan goes as well

 

[Kuudere]

i have set a 5k time trial at 20mins in 3 months time.

current plan will be 3 runs per week as well with 1 economy, 1 threshold interval and 1 long run.

economy @ usual z2 pace
threshold @ 1 x 8km with 1 min rest in between
long run @ z2 pace or progressive or tempo (either 1 of it or mixture)

will see how this plan goes as well

I would replace threshold with 5 x 800m with 2 min rest at 3 minute 12 seconds (4.00 min/km). Then progress 6 x 800m > 7 x 800m > 8 x 800m > 4 x 1km > 5 x 1km > 6 x 1km.

Once you hit 6 x 1km (2 minute rest) at 4 min/km, you are in 20 min flat 5k shape.

8 x 1km with 1 minute rest >> More of 10-15k pace workout, don't recommend

As for the long run, run the last 20 minutes or 5km at tempo pace. The rest of the run can be easy, then you take a 1-2 minutes rest before starting the tempo. Ideally, 4 min 15 seconds/km. Minimally, 4 min 30 seconds/km.

If can't achieve that, means you set your goal too high.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Wow.....another one hit target @ Chicago FM. So got 3 fellas liao. (nick bester and Sweat Elite's Matt Fox both sub 2:20)

Ben got 2:44
But he is technically super heat acclimatized, and then running @ Chicago, which i believe was around 10 deg C then so that would have been a significant boost for him.

Also of coz the Women's WR

 

[WussRedXLi]

Over in SengKang, a regular runner I used to see on STRAVA and irl, was a barefoot runner. He was the one who intro me MAF running to built my base first. He can complete a HM under 1:55 at MAF HR. MAF HR is 180 - age. And for seasoned runner, it is usually at Zone 1 or lower end of zone 2.

I can do 5.00 pace zone 2 but under 10k ba....... Too warm weather here. If i spray cold water with towel around the neck shd be able to go a lbit ittle longer but that's about it. The drift is terrible.

It'd be nice to try in temperate countries like 12 - 15 deg C.
Or maybe do treadmills in those sports research institute with chilled rooms at 11 deg C like the one which they just did for Zwift races with the ladies representing Singapore.

 

[WussRedXLi]

I think if @WussRedXLi was younger, he could have been an even more elite runner with slightly more training

Dont know leh......i think the musculoskeletal system cannot keep up at current training. Too much stress if i focus more training towards running, and if i dial it back and cross train more with cycling (which i like more also) then the running specific ligaments/tendon strenth cannot keep up. The only thing i havent kena is bone stress fracture only, which i believe Ben from Ben is Running channel just kena from his previous super high mileage stint (180k per week?)
Technically i think my VO2max more or less there liao with all the speedwork and how i like speed in general.....genetically limiting. Or maybe it'd take even more years to build up the musculoskeletal if there ever is such a thing.....and i dont think i have that long a patience.

For my cycling, i am actually limited more by muscles rather than cardio or breathing. And maybe a bit of neuro coz i feel above 85/90 rpm i am not very comfortable after a long while, not so efficient....but just a feeling nia.
Maybe i need more cadence drills....not sure. Still figuring things out.
And without a power meter, i am as blind as a mole, just relying on my Huawei watch for HR only.

The supplements and nutrition side i already maxed up liao (I never test or play with collagen tho, pretty expensive to be a placebo effect too). The plyo and strength training i also sorta maxxed up already. I like to use push ups variants as a general reference coz that one is a good representation and also very useful for maintaining aero tuck.


The number of hours also sorta maxxed out (ard 20 hrs per week).
^^^^^^^^^^^^
No doubt quite a fair bit are junk miles junk hours, but still.........
And i think my current job/location i can last for 1 more year max....so if not for my nearby home-office commute run training then it gets even tougher and the spare time i have for future job is gonna dwindle. Clock is ticking.
That's assuming that i can get employed again and not do Grab taxi or Grabfood coz of age.

 

[WussRedXLi]

 

[WussRedXLi]

 

[WussRedXLi]

 

[Jeremy1]

Thinking, should I?

Yes, you should

 

[Jeremy1]

Really don't know how to improve. Still nothing after like 3-4 months

Only solace is that i didn't slide.

In fact i feel a wee bit right knee outer kneecap pain. Not sure if it is ITBS again.
Later hoot 2 x 500mg curcuwin......if tmr morning still niggle i will hoot 120mg Arcoxia.

So fast

 

[WussRedXLi]

Might use this.
Shd work for running as well.

Still got 10.10 20% offer on iherb

200g for S$13.67 for EVLution brand.
Daily dose 1.6g.

Loading phase 6+ g split over 4 doses daily, but as usual i would just skip this......just do daily and wait for the magic. No hurry. I didnt load for Creatine anyway.

@Ender
This shd complement Creatine. Quite useful for me also (if it works)

 

[Ender]

Might use this.
Shd work for running as well.

Still got 10.10 20% offer on iherb

200g for S$13.67 for EVLution brand.
Daily dose 1.6g.

Loading phase 6+ g split over 4 doses daily, but as usual i would just skip this......just do daily and wait for the magic. No hurry. I didnt load for Creatine anyway.

@Ender
This shd complement Creatine. Quite useful for me also (if it works)

Thanks, I read briefly about this, it's something to do with lactate acid buffering. I am actually using Sodium Bicarbonate for lactate acid buffering at very low dosage (1 gram at 1 hour prior to workout) when I am doing my interval runs. I don't know if it works or not, just can't feel the benefit. I guess having stomach acid reflux doesn't really help coz I suspect my sodium bicarb went to neutralize the acidity of my stomach acid and lost it's effectiveness for buffering the lactate acid. LOL.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Thanks, I read briefly about this, it's something to do with lactate acid buffering. I am actually using Sodium Bicarbonate for lactate acid buffering at very low dosage (1 gram at 1 hour prior to workout) when I am doing my interval runs. I don't know if it works or not, just can't feel the benefit. I guess having stomach acid reflux doesn't really help coz I suspect my sodium bicarb went to neutralize the acidity of my stomach acid and lost it's effectiveness for buffering the lactate acid. LOL.

Oh.....folks like top level pros Remco Evenepoel did mention that they use sodium bicarbonate before the races as they pack it to the site. So shd be of use...but then if you have GERD type then not so sure already.

 

[WussRedXLi]

10k TT, only 23 days of supplementation

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6092497/

Shorter bursts (say for kicks at the end of race). 800m.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23630039/

@Kuudere This one seems good for you

 

[milkiee]

I would replace threshold with 5 x 800m with 2 min rest at 3 minute 12 seconds (4.00 min/km). Then progress 6 x 800m > 7 x 800m > 8 x 800m > 4 x 1km > 5 x 1km > 6 x 1km.

Once you hit 6 x 1km (2 minute rest) at 4 min/km, you are in 20 min flat 5k shape.

8 x 1km with 1 minute rest >> More of 10-15k pace workout, don't recommend

As for the long run, run the last 20 minutes or 5km at tempo pace. The rest of the run can be easy, then you take a 1-2 minutes rest before starting the tempo. Ideally, 4 min 15 seconds/km. Minimally, 4 min 30 seconds/km.

If can't achieve that, means you set your goal too high.

any reason why the threshold should be done progressively?
also you're saying it should be a progressive 4min pace goal isit? 5K -> 10K -> HM

does it work if i do the same interval format (8 x 1km) and improve over time?
will i have higher risk of injury and overtraining by doing that? is that the reason why?

 

[Elfblade]

In Page 666, Huat ah!

 

[Kuudere]

any reason why the threshold should be done progressively?
also you're saying it should be a progressive 4min pace goal isit? 5K -> 10K -> HM

does it work if i do the same interval format (8 x 1km) and improve over time?
will i have higher risk of injury and overtraining by doing that? is that the reason why?

Because you want to train at your goal 5k pace (4 min/km if you are aiming for 20 minute flat 5km).

For example, you can run 2.4km at 9.36 minute (4 min/km). You can 100% complete 4 x 800m (4min/km) with 2 minute rest. Then next thing is to do 5 x 800m at the same pace and rest, so it will be harder every week. Continue until you hit 6 x 1km (4min/km) with 2 minute rest. I tested 6 x 1km with 2 minute rest a few times, and it reflects your 5k race pace. If you are aerobically weak and fast speed, then try 5 x 1.2km with 2 minute 30 seconds rest.

8 x 1km @ 60s rest is only possible if you run at 10-15k race pace. Unless your goal is to focus on 10-15k pace as well as 5k, then it's just better to do shorter intervals and get good at it for that 3 months.

Of course, you die die want to do 8 x 1km @ 60s rest, you can improve by running a faster average pace or cutting down rest or both across the week. The major downside is that you wouldn't be running at your 5k pace.

I find shorter intervals useful because you need a lot of speed for 5k. You can get the endurance training from long run. Add in 20-30 minute tempo at the end of your long run (negative split), you are basically training speed endurance.

Speed (short intervals with longer rest) + Endurance (Long run) + Speed Endurance (20-30 minute tempo - can be done separately or in long run) = PB

You don't need to do 8 x 1km, you can do 6 x 800m (2 minute rest) >> Do shorter intervals, which allows you to run a better tempo at the end of the week since your legs are not as tired.