jogging and motivation thread

xllms

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Um mr uncle ah....the uncles here at my area i see, zone 2 is at best 7:00, majority slower than that.

Heck, last evening for the 2 gyms at my area, i saw the young xmms running at Duxton park, panting away at 7-8 min pace and full of perspiration (i know coz i got my GPS with me on the bike even when go buy cai png). Granted, 7.15pm %@#$@#$ hot lah. They usualy run between the fitness corner and the indian temple there near new bridge rd.
this winter my zone 2 (hr) is around 7:30-8:00, based on my apple watch data. Even at such snail pace, cannot sustain more than 5km (more tiring to run zone 2 than zone 3 for me). My comfortable and natural pace is betwen 6:15-7:00 with corresponding HR in zone 3 (aerobic power), borderline zone 4 (threshold).
can imagine when i am back in SG, it will be worse for me.
 

GlassDoor

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this winter my zone 2 (hr) is around 7:30-8:00, based on my apple watch data. Even at such snail pace, cannot sustain more than 5km (more tiring to run zone 2 than zone 3 for me). My comfortable and natural pace is betwen 6:15-7:00 with corresponding HR in zone 3 (aerobic power), borderline zone 4 (threshold).
can imagine when i am back in SG, it will be worse for me.
few years back when I was still base building.. read lots of materials on this (will try to dig up again)
zone3 is where most people feel most efficient and comfortable. zone2 doesn't come naturally unless the body has trained for it. Has to do with the way our body uses different sources of fuel. Which is also why zone2, maf180 is so controversial.

anyhow.. based on my own experience and there are research papers on this (again got to dig up). Easiest/fastest way to lower resting heart rate is zone2 effort between 60-90mins for at least 5-6hrs (forgot the exact numbers from that paper already) weekly. the cycling geeks is especially anal on this.

looking back, I am glad I focused on building my base. But honestly if you just want to enjoy running and keep healthy. all this doesn't matter... just go out and run.
 

WussRedXLi

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this winter my zone 2 (hr) is around 7:30-8:00, based on my apple watch data. Even at such snail pace, cannot sustain more than 5km (more tiring to run zone 2 than zone 3 for me). My comfortable and natural pace is betwen 6:15-7:00 with corresponding HR in zone 3 (aerobic power), borderline zone 4 (threshold).
can imagine when i am back in SG, it will be worse for me.

Actually if current approach not working for you (since like starting 2-3 years ago minimal change) and you are still after improvements, maybe time for a radical change.

Maybe need to change to less training hours per week and more hours at intensity (threshold is sufficient with a some strides), do it the intervals way and play around with the rest time, much easier to digest. Do the different type of strength (not the high rep type) and add in plyo....does not need to be a lot, 1-2 times a week with 2 sets only is sufficient for your age, dont have to follow the full works of those scientific studies i think you might have seen me posting about (i also dont do the full program, usually 60% of the vol only). See what happens.

I think you have already logged a fair number of hours (endurance) at lower HR for so long. Train it this way for 3 months, check again and see if you can maintain zone 2 at a pace better than before. If it works, then you have your answer. You can then continue to enjoy "maintainence" at this new easy pace, say 6:00, at lower HR the vast majority of the time also can. In short, you need more than sufficient stimulus to "move the needle" first, before you settle and maintain at the new level.

But if you are after enjoyment in going out for your sessions as sort of a hobby, this might be difficult.
 
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xllms

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few years back when I was still base building.. read lots of materials on this (will try to dig up again)
zone3 is where most people feel most efficient and comfortable. zone2 doesn't come naturally unless the body has trained for it. Has to do with the way our body uses different sources of fuel. Which is also why zone2, maf180 is so controversial.

anyhow.. based on my own experience and there are research papers on this (again got to dig up). Easiest/fastest way to lower resting heart rate is zone2 effort between 60-90mins for at least 5-6hrs (forgot the exact numbers from that paper already) weekly. the cycling geeks is especially anal on this.

looking back, I am glad I focused on building my base. But honestly if you just want to enjoy running and keep healthy. all this doesn't matter... just go out and run.
thanks for sharing.
I have been trying to build up my zone 2 past one year, but to no success.
looking back, I think to established zone 2, one needs to run consistently for a prolonged period (continuous intensity, eg. daily and achieve a critical mileage) before unlocking it. If I am right, then obviously I haven't done so.
At the moment, I am just enjoying my runs and no longer seeking fast times or having any strong desires for any active participations of formal races. But am trying something else (strength training, intervals and upslope sprints) to see if i get any positive results.
 

xllms

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Actually if current approach not working for you (since like starting 2-3 years ago minimal change) and you are still after improvements, maybe time for a radical change.

Maybe need to change to less training hours per week and more hours at intensity (threshold is sufficient with a some strides). Do the different type of strength (not the high rep type) and add in plyo....does not need to be a lot, 1-2 times a week is sufficient for your age. See what happens.
I think you have already logged a fair number of hours (endurance) at lower HR for so long. Train it this way for 3 months, check again and see if you can maintain zone 2.
But if you are after enjoyment in going out for your sessions as sort of a hobby, this might be difficult.
yah, I am now on strength building, intervals and slope sprints

very careful on plyo now cos i twisted my ankle last year end

pushed myself too hard 2 days ago and almost black out on my 10th upslope sprints :ROFLMAO:
 

basic___

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Short answer. Xiaonian for faster runs like tempo. The rocker just wanna go fast.

Red Hare 9U for slower relaxed runs. Or just abit faster. Because no rocker and the huge cushion stack is not nimble. (can still go fast with the bounce but not feeling much feedback is strange)

Cushioning and stability is good though.
Red Hare 9U seems like a good long run cruise shoe.. but not sure if it is with the additional 60-70 dollars though.
Anyone have experience with the cheaper 9 Pro?
 

cherynsq

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Red Hare 9U seems like a good long run cruise shoe.. but not sure if it is with the additional 60-70 dollars though.
Anyone have experience with the cheaper 9 Pro?
I’m using Red Hare 9U . The capsule is the one providing the absolute rebound . I manage to run faster with it as my recovery run pace as improved from 6’35 to 6’
 

GlassDoor

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Red Hare 9U seems like a good long run cruise shoe.. but not sure if it is with the additional 60-70 dollars though.
Anyone have experience with the cheaper 9 Pro?
considering 361 miro SL for daily runs to long steady runs. Hui didn't like the upper. But I think it will work for me as I prefer minimum fast drying uppers. the other revies have been generally positive. 399rmb on tb... already added to cart.. but let it sit for night first :D

 

WussRedXLi

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this winter my zone 2 (hr) is around 7:30-8:00, based on my apple watch data. Even at such snail pace, cannot sustain more than 5km (more tiring to run zone 2 than zone 3 for me). My comfortable and natural pace is betwen 6:15-7:00 with corresponding HR in zone 3 (aerobic power), borderline zone 4 (threshold).
can imagine when i am back in SG, it will be worse for me.

Oh, forgot, you shd also work in some 200m VO2max type intervals, i like 200m better, easier to "digest". RPE 8.5-9, or a little more than your threshold. 1 set of 6 once per week probably enough as starters for the 3 months. If you like duration more (just count in your head mentally) without looking at your watch for distance, then just 30 seconds on and 30 seconds off is good also........if you get more advanced and feel the difference with increased fitness/ease then trim it down to 30 seconds on and 20 seconds off....maybe even 15 seconds. If you like it then add more reps, or even a second set....but i reckon a total vol of 12 reps of 30s is sufficient already.
Technically, full shd be 30/15s 12 reps x 3 sets ..... in between sets 3-4 mins rest but it's very tough, same goes for 4 x 4s, a bit vomit inducing + take too much time and rack up too much fatique, and after that at the end of the day might not be ultimately useful for your (long) distance coz you dont do 5K, but you still need to do a wee bit of VO2max work to move the needle as this pace/stimulus prob is quite new to you.

As long as you haven't touched this before, then your body would give you beginner gains, which means it is a low hanging fruit.
 
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Ender

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thanks for sharing.
I have been trying to build up my zone 2 past one year, but to no success.
looking back, I think to established zone 2, one needs to run consistently for a prolonged period (continuous intensity, eg. daily and achieve a critical mileage) before unlocking it. If I am right, then obviously I haven't done so.
At the moment, I am just enjoying my runs and no longer seeking fast times or having any strong desires for any active participations of formal races. But am trying something else (strength training, intervals and upslope sprints) to see if i get any positive results.
The idea is correct. Coz the intensity is too low, need more time in the zone and consistency for adaptation. i.e more days per week for running. My guide, is at least 4 days a week for serious runners. Long run is the main dish, but do not let it destroy your consistency which to me is the real main dish. What I mean is do not do long run that you get so much fatigue and soreness that you need to rest for more than 2 full days.

But if running is not your main dish, just do zone 3 or 4 or whatever gets you the most volume with your allocated time. Since you got other cross training to do, so no need to do the time consuming zone 2.
 

sales69

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Red Hare 9U seems like a good long run cruise shoe.. but not sure if it is with the additional 60-70 dollars though.
Anyone have experience with the cheaper 9 Pro?
I think the extra is worth it for the looks alone. :D

Now with discounts on Taobao and PDD, should be able to get for cheaper.
 

basic___

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I think the extra is worth it for the looks alone. :D

Now with discounts on Taobao and PDD, should be able to get for cheaper.
I see. Technically I am covered on all front with no need for new shoes. Cos I am going China next week and see if I can find good deals in retail stores and probably find a pair to keep first
 

Tudo88

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I see. Technically I am covered on all front with no need for new shoes. Cos I am going China next week and see if I can find good deals in retail stores and probably find a pair to keep first
QD Plaid 3 releasing next week I think. I kind of like the yellow colorway haha
 

WussRedXLi

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yah, I am now on strength building, intervals and slope sprints
Can try for 3 months. See if got difference. But dont be mistaken, you still need to factor in some easy sessions also, really easy low zone 2 to get the volume up sufficiently, just no try not to get fatigued for your easy sessions coz you dont wanna compromise your workouts.
Something like 2 workouts of your choice, 2 x really easy,....short strides for all 4 sessions. 1 day strength/plyo/whatever accessory training you want. 2 days rest. That's a 7 day training week, if too cramped the cycle can be 8 or 9 days. If can handle, maybe add 1 more easy.

Actually tbh, no need to 3 months to see results, by the 1st month, if properly executed, you should more or less can see small signs of improvement liao.

I share with you calisthenics - It's something like pull up.......if anyhow execute, anybody in this thread i give them 4 months also nothing just stuck there be it 0 or just 1 or 2 half reps. Trust me, i had been through this stage initially.
If properly done, just 4 weeks already got signs of pretty noticeable improvements.


If not difference, then LL, try the other way, just slow the heck down and really racewalk/power walk for hours/wk liao.
I also started from racewalking before i ran.......it confirm works, the very first time i tried to run was 1.6k which is 2 laps at my bridge area, i did 6:20 mins (3:58 pace) as per stopwatch.....

Too bad you cannot cycle, you can get a ridiculously enormous amount of easy volume in aerobically and still enjoy it (even if it is not totally specific to running so the carryover efficiency is going to be quite bad). Also much more cooling as you are approaching summer in 2 months time, you can bring your fav snacks, drinks etc. Is just afraid that you cannot spare time from your work or family nia.
It should work........3 youtubers and 1 hyroxer tried it other than myself (else really no other way to explain, i only have 1 short workiout type run session and my zone 2 commute office runs are sort of garbage in the eyes of true runners, it's only really just that i bo bian coz office location is as such).


very careful on plyo now cos i twisted my ankle last year end

pushed myself too hard 2 days ago and almost black out on my 10th upslope sprints :ROFLMAO:

Sprints of any type - 10 reps seems to be is a wee bit too much if not advanced runner. If form breaks then it is time to cut, so i think the majority of us wont cut it past 6-8 reps. Also not meant to be pushed beyond 12 seconds. If you dont think it is enjoyable then better not force to do coz it carries a bit higher injury risk unless very well conditioned in strength/muscles. Benefits are there though for those time crunched and have extra benefits far beyond running......

But again, might not be quite compatible for the type of distances that you are after.....it needs ample recovery before trying again. But if you are willing to try the higher intensity block i mentioned earlier as something to experiment with, you can slot 1 in per week, but maybe cut the reps to 4-6 or something. It's like a surgical strike, dont do it like 10 12 reps intervals training coz it isnt intervals.
 
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sph777

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thanks for sharing.
I have been trying to build up my zone 2 past one year, but to no success.
looking back, I think to established zone 2, one needs to run consistently for a prolonged period (continuous intensity, eg. daily and achieve a critical mileage) before unlocking it. If I am right, then obviously I haven't done so.
At the moment, I am just enjoying my runs and no longer seeking fast times or having any strong desires for any active participations of formal races. But am trying something else (strength training, intervals and upslope sprints) to see if i get any positive results.
tbh, instead of focusing on zones, I really just do easy runs by effort. Purposely run at a comfortable pace rather than by hr
 

sph777

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noinimod

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I see. Technically I am covered on all front with no need for new shoes. Cos I am going China next week and see if I can find good deals in retail stores and probably find a pair to keep first
Found it funny that china retail store prices were worse than the official store's tmall prices. At least for Li Ning. Dont know if it's related to the specific branch or not. Was there 2 weeks ago.
 

xllms

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Found it funny that china retail store prices were worse than the official store's tmall prices. At least for Li Ning. Dont know if it's related to the specific branch or not. Was there 2 weeks ago.
most running enthusiasts in China buy via online channel
retails stores are mainly for size trying or for lifestyle users
which is also why in China there are some models not found online to create distinct market separation.
China has the huge size to play with such methods, whereas SG is just too small.
 
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