jogging and motivation thread

[GlassDoor]

Some YouTube physios suggest zero drop for plantar. While some others suggest otherwise. Quite mixed opinions...

For now, among my shoes, I found Redhare 9U and Xiaonian as most protective and give less pain after run.

Could be the cushioning helping to absorb shock.

Recently I tried using this door wedge below to press hard again the sore spots on underside of foot.

Seems to work well to relieve tension. Can feel less pain at the heel and make running more manageable.

zero drop can strengthen plantar. But if injured already (ie got pain) then best to avoid until recovered.
in my own experience, I had plantar fasciitis a few years ago and choose to run thought the pain. The shoe that was most comfortable to run in at that point was nike's invincible 2 or 3 can't remember which one. It was soft but high stacked and relatively stiff because of the thick midsole. ironicly it prolonged the injury for months.
Eventually, I seek medical help and the recommendation was to run in a low stack flexible trainer. nike pegesus or similar was what they recommend. I ended up with a cheap pair of axis hyper speed. essentially a run flat. And it did wonders. Pain went away in days. and my plantar did not bother me after a month.
they also demonstrated foot strengthening exercise which I have used from then on a daily basis. Basically every morning while doing my business with both feet on the floor..

 

[sales69]

zero drop can strengthen plantar. But if injured already (ie got pain) then best to avoid until recovered.
in my own experience, I had plantar fasciitis a few years ago and choose to run thought the pain. The shoe that was most comfortable to run in at that point was nike's invincible 2 or 3 can't remember which one. It was soft but high stacked and relatively stiff because of the thick midsole. ironicly it prolonged the injury for months.
Eventually, I seek medical help and the recommendation was to run in a low stack flexible trainer. nike pegesus or similar was what they recommend. I ended up with a cheap pair of axis hyper speed. essentially a run flat. And it did wonders. Pain went away in days. and my plantar did not bother me after a month.
they also demonstrated foot strengthening exercise which I have used from then on a daily basis. Basically every morning while doing my business with both feet on the floor..

Thanks for sharing!

Looking through my shoes, I don't have a low stack flexible trainer.

Closest is Dowin Speedster, quite low stack but plated and aggressive.

Bmai carbon 3T is not aggressive but higher stack.

Other non plated are high stack cushioned.

Threw away NB Rebel 3 during CNY cleaning which might have worked... Maybe time to hunt for a cheap pair.

For the exercise, did you do something like this?

 

[GlassDoor]

Thanks for sharing!

Looking through my shoes, I don't have a low stack flexible trainer.

Closest is Dowin Speedster, quite low stack but plated and aggressive.

Bmai carbon 3T is not aggressive but higher stack.

Other non plated are high stack cushioned.

Threw away NB Rebel 3 during CNY cleaning which might have worked... Maybe time to hunt for a cheap pair.

For the exercise, did you do something like this?

similar exercises. you can easily do it when on the toilet in the morning. make it a daily routine
pardon me for being frank, almost all your shoes are very stiff and rockered. example xiaoniao a very stiff and rockered shoe. imho it's not a daily easy run shoe but most will disagree with me cos feel so good to run in bouncy, rolling and responsive. bmai JT3 is also very stiff shoe as well.
that's why i seldom participate when folks talk about shoes. I have very different views and maybe seem to pour cold water . old uncle ranting.....

 

[sph777]

similar exercises. you can easily do it when on the toilet in the morning. make it a daily routine
pardon me for being frank, almost all your shoes are very stiff and rockered. example xiaoniao a very stiff and rockered shoe. imho it's not a daily easy run shoe but most will disagree with me cos feel so good to run in bouncy, rolling and responsive. bmai JT3 is also very stiff shoe as well.
that's why i seldom participate when folks talk about shoes. I have very different views and maybe seem to pour cold water . old uncle ranting.....

should share more, want to unlock your secrets to your speed and endurance haha

 

[GlassDoor]

should share more, want to unlock your secrets to your speed and endurance haha

no secrets la... i just learned and adapted as I go along. Sometimes through injury. We can always learn something.

the mainstays in my daily runs are adidas SL2 (two pairs in rotation), hyperspeed 5 and adios 9. more than 80% of my run volume are done in the above .All shoes which people find "boring" and will probably never run in cos they are not soft, bouncy and rolling. Some may even get put off if they are used to "rolling" shoes. Cos they are very flexible shoes and have very minimum roll (Sl2 got a bit) and needs your legs to do the work.

 

[sales69]

similar exercises. you can easily do it when on the toilet in the morning. make it a daily routine
pardon me for being frank, almost all your shoes are very stiff and rockered. example xiaoniao a very stiff and rockered shoe. imho it's not a daily easy run shoe but most will disagree with me cos feel so good to run in bouncy, rolling and responsive. bmai JT3 is also very stiff shoe as well.
that's why i seldom participate when folks talk about shoes. I have very different views and maybe seem to pour cold water . old uncle ranting.....

No worries. True that my shoes are stiff, plated and with rocker.

I think buying China shoes doesn't help in this respect. Even normal trainer they can go put a support plate.

I was looking at Qiaodan Wind4, even that has support plate.

Maybe the cheaper Qiaodan Leili trainer (supposedly non plated) might be an option.

I remember NB Minimus because apart from the zero drop, it is very flexible and twistable.

Last time went on trip and almost fold/bend the shoe to squeeze into luggage. Damn flexible shoe which I guess aids the front foot push off.

Will continue doing the exercise. Thanks for that!

 

[GlassDoor]

No worries. True that my shoes are stiff, plated and with rocker.

I think buying China shoes doesn't help in this respect. Even normal trainer they can go put a support plate.

I was looking at Qiaodan Wind4, even that has support plate.

Maybe the cheaper Qiaodan Leili trainer (supposedly non plated) might be an option.

I remember NB Minimus because apart from the zero drop, it is very flexible and twistable.

Last time went on trip and almost fold/bend the shoe to squeeze into luggage. Damn flexible shoe which I guess aids the front foot push off.

Will continue doing the exercise. Thanks for that!

i had xstep 薄底香菜 v1 was a very good and it's like rmb 1xx.. v2 just launch and has slightly higher cushion for wider audience but not tried before.. can go look see look see.

 

[Ender]

Some YouTube physios suggest zero drop for plantar. While some others suggest otherwise. Quite mixed opinions...

For now, among my shoes, I found Redhare 9U and Xiaonian as most protective and give less pain after run.

Could be the cushioning helping to absorb shock.

Recently I tried using this door wedge below to press hard again the sore spots on underside of foot.

Seems to work well to relieve tension. Can feel less pain at the heel and make running more manageable.

Fine line of balancing protection or strengthen. If the pain is immediately elevated, usually that's only protection. Your injured part is not strengthen. On the other end, if you don't protect and strengthen with too much load, you risk aggravating the injury further and make it worst.

But I always will go for careful strengthening rather than protection. Need to lose the ego to run with very low load, i.e reduce mileage, duration, and on stadium track. Need patience, coz it's a long journey is you increase the load and mileage very slowly. But most importantly the rehab needs to be consistent, everyday if possible. I manage to rid my Achilles tedonitis. starting with running 1km. And my daily mileage is literally not more than 3km. but it's daily. Once can do 5km, I go stadium to try for longer mileage.

 

[Tudo88]

No worries. True that my shoes are stiff, plated and with rocker.

I think buying China shoes doesn't help in this respect. Even normal trainer they can go put a support plate.

I was looking at Qiaodan Wind4, even that has support plate.

Maybe the cheaper Qiaodan Leili trainer (supposedly non plated) might be an option.

I remember NB Minimus because apart from the zero drop, it is very flexible and twistable.

Last time went on trip and almost fold/bend the shoe to squeeze into luggage. Damn flexible shoe which I guess aids the front foot push off.

Will continue doing the exercise. Thanks for that!

Brooks got one very flexible shoe.

Brooks glycerin flex

 

[GlassDoor]

Brooks got one very flexible shoe.

Brooks glycerin flex

it is listed on irun at S$238??!!! wakao..... who in the right mind...........

 

[sales69]

Fine line of balancing protection or strengthen. If the pain is immediately elevated, usually that's only protection. Your injured part is not strengthen. On the other end, if you don't protect and strengthen with too much load, you risk aggravating the injury further and make it worst.

But I always will go for careful strengthening rather than protection. Need to lose the ego to run with very low load, i.e reduce mileage, duration, and on stadium track. Need patience, coz it's a long journey is you increase the load and mileage very slowly. But most importantly the rehab needs to be consistent, everyday if possible. I manage to rid my Achilles tedonitis. starting with running 1km. And my daily mileage is literally not more than 3km. but it's daily. Once can do 5km, I go stadium to try for longer mileage.

True. Recently I start with 2km slow run. Follow by running 100m strides x 10 or x 20.

x10 is manageable. About 5/10 pain. And easier recovery.

x20 increases pain to 7/10 and slower recovery.

Think really have to limit to x10 for now.

Longer distance about 5km is fine as long as slow 6.30 pace. Slightly faster pace will feel the strain.

Appreciate all the advise!

 

[sales69]

it is listed on irun at S$238??!!! wakao..... who in the right mind...........

Looks interesting but wow that price. That's why many of us are looking at China shoes.

I do like Brooks shoes. Last time Key Power Sports always have discounts. Bought many pairs from them.

 

[Kuudere]

Yes, evidence indicates that marathon runners and long-distance runners generally live longer than the general population, with studies showing up to a 30% lower risk of cardiovascular death and a 25% lower risk of death from all causes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon_Training/s/UcuXrdajzV

I think running long distance definitely keeps me healthier than not running. But there are several caveats.

1. Sufficient sleep - this is important. Sleep can be affected if you are training for longer mileages.

2. Running intensity/volume - the higher it gets, the greater the risk of getting injuries.

3. How you like to race - If you race a half marathon/marathon conservatively, then lesser risk of getting injuries.

4. Nutrition - higher risk of malnutrition if running higher volume of mileages.

I feel it’s important to slowly build up your training and do what is comfortable for you.

Guys, do hydrate more these days. Decided to call it quits at 9.15 as did not feel too good, the sun and temperature and humidity was too much. Had to take a breather in AC mall and went to the restroom to drink up. Despite having only ran for 11km.

I try to hydrate every 6km when I run. If doing longer runs, running with a bottle helps.

Maybe can try running earlier at 6-7+ when it's cooler. Or just run in the evening when the sun is down.

 

[Ender]

Be careful of supplements for knee pain. Best way is still seek physio. Or ortho is surgery if needed. But try physio before surgery
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/sin...-products-side-effects-blood-pressure-6000926
Three people suffer serious side effects after taking potent products for knee pain, slimming

 

[WussRedXLi]

Botak coach

Nearly HM distance +840m elevation gain
1:27

 

[WussRedXLi]

True. Recently I start with 2km slow run. Follow by running 100m strides x 10 or x 20.

x10 is manageable. About 5/10 pain. And easier recovery.

x20 increases pain to 7/10 and slower recovery.

Think really have to limit to x10 for now.

Longer distance about 5km is fine as long as slow 6.30 pace. Slightly faster pace will feel the strain.

Appreciate all the advise!

Actually which change did you do (workout or distance etc) to cause the PF?
Or do you often suffer from tight calves or something due to running? ( quick way to test is check if you have good dorsiflexion)

edit - seems like the "standard" to aim for is comfortably over +10 deg of dorsiflexion, can just stand and try not to put pressure on the heel now of coz due to your PF pain, see if you can dorsiflex and note the approx degree.

Or put it another way, sit down so that your tibia (your lower leg) is parallel to the floor, use a ruler or tape measure to measure the height of your big toe when you try to dorsiflex.
I just tried mine, i can dorsiflex my big toe till 6 inches with a good stretch. (big toe metatarsal @ 4.5 inches)
So can use the below as reference, see the ball of the base of my big toe @ 4.5 inches, and i wear US 10 shoes...shd be quite comparable unless if you are US 7 or US 13

Allso, got any habit of doing any associated strengthening exercises or plyo?

 

[WussRedXLi]

Ok, use this calculator.

Seems like my dorsiflexion angle is 34 degrees. 8 inches from heel to big toe base, and i can dorsiflex it 4.5 inches (20 deg is average, 10 degrees is tight, 0 degrees is cannot make it tight)


https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/trigonometry

 

[WussRedXLi]

Heng.......

But damn it, i still cant really balance with my pistol squat, need to hold onto something.
Glute and quad power i have already trained, is sufficient. (cyclists esp, you'd better be able to do this, doesnt matter if you hold onto something )

I can easily do my asian squat tho.

Yes, 34 degrees of ankle dorsiflexion is excellent and considered above-average mobility. It exceeds the generally accepted normal range and is more than sufficient for high-level athletic movements.
Mike Reinold +3
Here is a breakdown of why this is considered good:

• Normal Range: The standard, acceptable range for dorsiflexion is usually cited as 13 to 21 degrees or roughly 20-30 degrees in some weight-bearing studies.
• Minimal Need: Walking requires only about 10 to 15 degrees.
• High Performance: Deep squats (just past parallel) require about 35 degrees, but 30 degrees allows for high-level performance in Olympic lifting and deep squatting without restriction.
• Measurement Context: In the "knee-to-wall" test, 30 degrees of dorsiflexion is often indicated by a, or slightly more than, 12.5 cm (about 5 inches) distance between the toes and the wall.
  Mike Reinold +4

Having a high range of motion, like 30 degrees, helps prevent compensatory movements in the knees, hips, and lower back, reducing the risk of injuries like ankle sprains or runner's knee.


Bonus

 

[WussRedXLi]

Having a high range of motion, like 30 degrees, helps prevent compensatory movements in the knees, hips, and lower back, reducing the risk of injuries like ankle sprains or runner's knee.

Digged somemore.....

Runner's World on dorsiflexion and the common injuries, even got some details on the location of the tightness.
Seems like stiff calves come from the back of the ankle while front is more for ankle joint stiffness
https://www.runnersworld.com/health-injuries/a43495944/what-is-dorsiflexion/


There's this "Planatar Fascilitis Doctor" channel Dr Angela who mentioned that this ankle dorsiflexion /calf tightbess aspect does account for the majority of the cases. Also linked to AT, Patellar Pain, lower back pain.

Google AI/Gemini does seem to think so too. 80% (source Painsource)

Will Harlow - The Over Fifties Physio, even put it to be as much as 90%

 

[WussRedXLi]

Also came across this vid from James Dunne, sharing a single leg calf strength test standard from a study.
(I dont really watch him nowadays but his info is usually not bad.....and after all he is a PT)

You can test it out as well.
He mentioned that he has seen many of his patients who have been doing calf raises consistently, but they are nowhere near the strength as depicted in the table.
edit - to be honest, from what i have seen at fitness corners, PCNs, MBS. Merlion etc at how some folks do their calf raises ....i am not surprised. No offence meant tho....at least they are trying.


Single calf raise test. Full ROM, front part on an elevated surface, 3 seconds up and 3 seconds down. Unbroken set.

Ben Felton (Ben is Running) achieved 37 reps or something like that, though from his face he probably did not push to failure in that video. The Physio administering the test for him mentioned that endurance runners best to achieve a minimum of 34 reps or something (ie at least mid 30 reps)
A few months ago when i tested coz of the Ben is Running video, I am able to get to reps in the mid 40s but that is pushing it to near failure....i think touchng 50 reps should be possible but i dont/didnt wanna push to that stage .