jogging and motivation thread

[xllms]

Read on reddit a very common complaint with NB5 is the foam just feels dead after 250-300km.

mine at 195km, just when they feel very nice for slow LSE. guess i have another 50-100km left.

 

[rECKleSSfElla]

TB or PDD? The best i could find on TB is still above 60

PDD. Wishlist the item and they will occasionally send you notifications with targeted promo that can be 10-20rmb cheaper than the current listing price. For e.g. the Qinghong Free is currently listed as 249rmb on PDD but I was offered 233rmb instead when I click and purchase through the app notifications link.

 

[kkkkdllmkkkk]

Actually why not much considering for redhare 9 pro?

 

[rECKleSSfElla]

Actually why not much considering for redhare 9 pro?

I have the redhare 8 pro which is largely similar to the 9 pro. Think of them along the vein of Asics Novablast or Puma Velocity Nitro series which are your no fuss daily trainers. Nothing bad but also nothing that stands out compared to your supertrainers that are all the rage nowadays.

For the price of $30-40, the redhare 8/9 pro offer great value no doubt but something like the Redhare 9U or Miro SL costs just around $20 more and these give you much more bang for your buck.

 

[rECKleSSfElla]

No shortage of cheap china brand plated shoes but one that interests me is the 361飞燃/Flame 3. Its a 2 year+ older model so currently selling at just around 230rmb. They call this a 全民碳板 aka accessible carbon plate for the masses so you dont need to be elite or fast to run in it but apparently its also a pair of very race worthy shoe(low floor high ceiling).




What i like the most is they have Spongebob Squarepants collab colorways

At the price really no harm getting a pair to try but since its an older model, not all sizes have stock.

 

[WussRedXLi]

 

[WussRedXLi]

Both my novablast 5s feels dead after 300km. My wallet cannot take it if my running shoes die so fast

Believe it or not, i am still using Novablast 3. Not say heckloads of mileage, but confirm above 1000km.
2022 pair. Bread and butter, together with my Deviate Nitro 2. On the internet (youtube), some folks have used it up to 2k km, still quite ok.

One thing, my version is the TR version, ie the thicker outsole one which is meant for Trails, but actually not really lah.....it's just a 2X thicker outsole version with more pattern, ie outsole wear n tear is totally not an limiting issue of the lifespan for asphlat/tiles.


My wife also still on NB3, bread n butter. Last pair, she used up 1 already (upper got torn coz of the uncut nails, also > 1k km)

I still have many other shoes (like 14 in total) but just use these as bread n butter. For more special bouncy / "luxurious" feeling, i use the Plaid 1.0 and SC Elite 3.

 

[sph777]

Believe it or not, i am still using Novablast 3. Not say heckloads of mileage, but confirm above 1000km.
2022 pair.

My wife also still on NB3, bread n butter. Last pair, she used up 1 already (upper got torn coz of the uncut nails, also > 1km)

MY NB3 died after 1200 km or so but I am bui bui haha. Now NB4 on about 7-800km but been mostly using XN for easy runs nowadays

 

[WussRedXLi]

MY NB3 died after 1200 km or so but I am bui bui haha. Now NB4 on about 7-800km but been mostly using XN for easy runs nowadays

Which part of it died? Not the foam feeling gg right? Or the foam split or cracked or what. ie not midsole related.

 

[sph777]

Which part of it died? Not the foam feeling gg right? Or the foam split or cracked or what. ie not midsole related.

wear and tear got too much. Become much more stiff and no traction.

 

[kaisin82]

Swollen Mid foot issue cleared the day before the marathon so I was good to run today. I was worried that I will do a DNS but took a shot instead of selling my bib.

today’s run was horrible. I was gunning for sub 4 as mentioned earlier. It didn’t happen. Start hydrating 2 days before, clean carbs loading and then electrolyte 2 days before, morning of and during the race.

All went amazing until 32km mark and my legs decided to go on strike and both cramped up. It didn’t happened before. Couldn’t run at all, and end up walking most of the way or walk/pretend to jog.

Ended with a ridiculous 4hr 41mins. Bummed but glad that I didn’t give up and completed it.

very memorable first marathon. I thought I will need to poop during the race, least expected this to happen as it didn’t happen before. Disappointing experience today.

 

[WussRedXLi]

0:00 Prof. Tim Noakes changed his mind
1:11 His new paper on carbohydrates and performance
9:44 Two glucose pools — muscles vs blood
17:11 Muscle glycogen vs blood glucose explained
21:34 Low glycogen fat burning and carbs during exercise
26:09 Does 120 grams per hour actually work
33:07 Practical carb strategy by athlete type
37:34 Should you carb load the liver
42:27 Practical advice for masters runners
53:06 The central governor theory updated
59:36 Mistakes runners will make after this conversation
1:02:18 The Norwegian method — final takeaway
1:07:23 What endurance means to Prof. Noakes

Summary of Video Content on Carbohydrates, Endurance Performance, and Fatigue​

This video features an in-depth discussion with Professor Tim Noakes, a prominent researcher in exercise physiology and endurance metabolism. The conversation addresses long-standing assumptions about carbohydrate metabolism in endurance sports, challenging traditional views while providing insights into the roles of muscle glycogen, blood glucose, and brain function in regulating performance and fatigue.

---

Key Insights and Core Conclusions​

• Traditional beliefs about fatigue: Fatigue has been widely attributed to the depletion of muscle glycogen, the stored carbohydrate in muscles, based on a pivotal 1967 Scandinavian study with recreational athletes.
• Revised understanding: Professor Noakes and colleagues propose that blood glucose levels, regulated mainly by the liver and blood glucose pool, are the true limiting factor in endurance performance, not muscle glycogen depletion.
• Muscle glycogen function: Muscle glycogen acts primarily as a storage "dump" site for carbohydrates, rather than a direct determinant of fatigue or performance.
• Hypoglycemia as a fatigue trigger: Low blood glucose (hypoglycemia) causes the brain to limit muscle recruitment, slowing exercise pace to protect brain function. Preventing hypoglycemia via carbohydrate intake improves performance.
• Fuel utilization dependent on glycogen stores:
  • High muscle glycogen → body preferentially burns carbohydrates during exercise.
  • Low muscle glycogen → body shifts to fat oxidation, which can be sustained up to ~85% of maximum intensity.
• Carbohydrate intake during exercise:
  • A small carbohydrate intake (10–20 grams/hour) is sufficient to maintain metabolism and prevent hypoglycemia.
  • Very high intakes (up to 120 grams/hour) act not as fuel but as a pharmacological brain stimulant that reduces perceived fatigue and enhances performance in elite athletes.
  • Such high intake requires training the gut to absorb concentrated carbohydrate drinks and is beyond physiological norms, working via central nervous system stimulation.
• Fat adaptation and carbohydrate intake: Training with low muscle glycogen and a low carbohydrate diet promotes fat oxidation and metabolic health, reducing insulin resistance risk.
• Health implications:
  • Overconsumption of carbohydrates, especially in overweight or insulin-resistant individuals, can lead to type 2 diabetes and metabolic damage.
  • Marathon or recreational athletes with metabolic dysfunction should reduce carbohydrate intake and focus on fat oxidation.
• Role of the brain and fatigue (Central Governor Model):
  • Fatigue is a complex neurological phenomenon where the brain integrates physiological signals and limits effort to protect the body, not simply a result of muscle substrate depletion.
  • Emotional and intellectual factors influence the perception and tolerance of fatigue.
• Training and performance recommendations:
  • The Norwegian polarized training model emphasizing mostly low-intensity volume combined with some high intensity, avoiding the "gray zone," is effective for endurance athletes.
  • Endurance is also characterized by mental control to maintain effort despite discomfort.

---

Timeline/Table of Key Concepts and Developments​

Timeframe/Year	Event/Concept	Notes
1930s	Early Scandinavian studies showed hypoglycemia limits exercise performance	Hypoglycemia causes brain to reduce muscle recruitment; glucose stabilizes the brain
1967	Influential paper using muscle biopsies linked fatigue to muscle glycogen	Study done on recreational athletes; overshadowed earlier hypoglycemia theory
1976	Professor Noakes begins studying carbohydrate metabolism in exercise	Initially supports carbohydrate loading but questions develop later
1980s	Studies show carbohydrate ingestion during exercise prevents hypoglycemia	Fasting protocols deplete liver glycogen, influencing glucose and performance
Recent years	Noakes’ group publishes novel theory emphasizing blood glucose over muscle glycogen	Demonstrates two glucose pools: blood/liver and muscle, serving separate roles and regulation
Last 4 years	Evidence from elite athletes consuming 120 g carbohydrate per hour emerges	High doses act via brain stimulation rather than directly fueling muscles
2023-2024	Published debate in American Journal of Clinical Nutrition	Contrasting views on importance of muscle glycogen vs blood glucose for performance
Present	Endorsement of low carb diets for health, and specific carbohydrate intake during exercise for performance	Emphasis on individualized approaches depending on athlete health and goals

---

Definition Table of Key Terms​

Term	Definition
Muscle glycogen	Stored carbohydrate in muscles serving largely as a glucose reservoir; not the primary limiter of fatigue/performance
Blood glucose pool	Small, tightly regulated glucose concentration in blood and liver, critical for brain function
Hypoglycemia	Low blood glucose level causing mental fatigue and reduced muscle recruitment
Fat oxidation	The metabolic process of burning fat for energy, increased when muscle glycogen is low
Pharmacological dose	Very high intake of carbohydrate (e.g., 120 g/hour) exceeding normal metabolism, acting primarily via brain stimulation
Central Governor Model	Theory that the brain regulates exercise performance by integrating signals and controlling effort to prevent harm

---

Practical Recommendations and Applications​

• Recreational and overweight athletes with insulin resistance should:
  • Seek medical evaluation for insulin resistance and liver fat.
  • Adopt a low carbohydrate diet to improve metabolic health.
  • Consume minimal carbohydrate during exercise (~10–20 g/hour) to prevent hypoglycemia, especially in runs >1-2 hours.
• Elite and highly trained athletes may:
  • Use higher carbohydrate intake (up to 120 g/hour) during endurance events to stimulate the brain and delay fatigue.
  • Train their gut to tolerate concentrated carbohydrate solutions for better absorption.
• Training should emphasize:
  • Polarized training, focusing on lots of low-intensity training paired with some high-intensity work.
  • Avoiding "gray zone" moderate intensity training to maximize recovery and endurance gains.
• Understanding fatigue:
  • Recognize fatigue as a brain-controlled phenomenon influenced by emotion, intellect, and physiological feedback.
  • Mental strategies and experience are key to pushing through perceived fatigue.

---

​

 

[WussRedXLi]

Additional Notable Points​

• Performance does not significantly vary with muscle glycogen levels within normal ranges; starting glycogen does influence fuel preference but not performance outcome.
• Use of ultra-processed carbohydrates and sugars in athlete diets can cause metabolic issues; whole food carbohydrates (e.g., beans, legumes) are preferable but still require context depending on health status.
• Elite East African runners’ success is culturally and environmentally driven, not primarily due to high carbohydrate intake or Western training methods.

---

Summary Table: Carbohydrate Intake Effects on Performance​

Carbohydrate Intake Rate	Primary Effect	Notes
0 g (fasted exercise)	Risk of hypoglycemia and fatigue	Performance limited by blood glucose fall
10–20 g/hour	Maintains blood glucose, fuels brain, prevents hypoglycemia	Sufficient to maximize metabolism without insulin spike
120 g/hour (pharmacological)	Brain stimulant, reduces mental fatigue, enhances performance	Requires gut training; effect is central nervous system mediated
High daily carb diet (overfeeding)	Increased carbohydrate oxidation at rest, elevated insulin	Potential health risks including insulin resistance and diabetes

---

Conclusion​

This video presents a paradigm shift in understanding endurance metabolism: performance limitations are primarily driven by blood glucose homeostasis and central nervous system regulation, rather than muscle glycogen depletion. Maintaining blood glucose through moderate carbohydrate intake during exercise is sufficient for metabolic needs, while very high carbohydrate doses serve mainly as brain stimulants enhancing mental endurance at the elite level. Fat adaptation and low carbohydrate diets present health benefits for most athletes, especially recreational or insulin-resistant individuals. Finally, fatigue is a brain-driven, complex phenomenon integrating physiological and psychological components, placing emphasis on mental strategies and training structure to optimize endurance.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Swollen Mid foot issue cleared the day before the marathon so I was good to run today. I was worried that I will do a DNS but took a shot instead of selling my bib.

today’s run was horrible. I was gunning for sub 4 as mentioned earlier. It didn’t happen. Start hydrating 2 days before, clean carbs loading and then electrolyte 2 days before, morning of and during the race.

All went amazing until 32km mark and my legs decided to go on strike and both cramped up. It didn’t happened before. Couldn’t run at all, and end up walking most of the way or walk/pretend to jog.

Ended with a ridiculous 4hr 41mins. Bummed but glad that I didn’t give up and completed it.

very memorable first marathon. I thought I will need to poop during the race, least expected this to happen as it didn’t happen before. Disappointing experience today.

Bo bian......the limiting factor is the usual muscular endurance part. That time when you first posted 19 days ago, also too late to do anything about this part and all of us are none the wiser unless previously you decide to do a nearly full distance test run, which would be quite tough to recover from, unless if you really have time to spare are still really far out to test and then recover from it.

Should you decide to try again, bo bian cannot skip S&C liao. As in, strength + plyometrics. The plyo helps with the neuromuscular aspect.

 

[sph777]

Swollen Mid foot issue cleared the day before the marathon so I was good to run today. I was worried that I will do a DNS but took a shot instead of selling my bib.

today’s run was horrible. I was gunning for sub 4 as mentioned earlier. It didn’t happen. Start hydrating 2 days before, clean carbs loading and then electrolyte 2 days before, morning of and during the race.

All went amazing until 32km mark and my legs decided to go on strike and both cramped up. It didn’t happened before. Couldn’t run at all, and end up walking most of the way or walk/pretend to jog.

Ended with a ridiculous 4hr 41mins. Bummed but glad that I didn’t give up and completed it.

very memorable first marathon. I thought I will need to poop during the race, least expected this to happen as it didn’t happen before. Disappointing experience today.

Is ok, well done on completing. Pretty normal to cramp up. rest and recover!

 

[Ender]

Swollen Mid foot issue cleared the day before the marathon so I was good to run today. I was worried that I will do a DNS but took a shot instead of selling my bib.

today’s run was horrible. I was gunning for sub 4 as mentioned earlier. It didn’t happen. Start hydrating 2 days before, clean carbs loading and then electrolyte 2 days before, morning of and during the race.

All went amazing until 32km mark and my legs decided to go on strike and both cramped up. It didn’t happened before. Couldn’t run at all, and end up walking most of the way or walk/pretend to jog.

Ended with a ridiculous 4hr 41mins. Bummed but glad that I didn’t give up and completed it.

very memorable first marathon. I thought I will need to poop during the race, least expected this to happen as it didn’t happen before. Disappointing experience today.

32km is the cursed distance for many runners. Really need more LSD to train the leg resilience to repeated impact.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Swollen Mid foot issue cleared the day before the marathon so I was good to run today. I was worried that I will do a DNS but took a shot instead of selling my bib.

today’s run was horrible. I was gunning for sub 4 as mentioned earlier. It didn’t happen. Start hydrating 2 days before, clean carbs loading and then electrolyte 2 days before, morning of and during the race.

All went amazing until 32km mark and my legs decided to go on strike and both cramped up. It didn’t happened before. Couldn’t run at all, and end up walking most of the way or walk/pretend to jog.

Ended with a ridiculous 4hr 41mins. Bummed but glad that I didn’t give up and completed it.

very memorable first marathon. I thought I will need to poop during the race, least expected this to happen as it didn’t happen before. Disappointing experience today.

BTW, one more thing, can you kindly do for us here as an important data pov. Even though it is just n = 1. Still good to know. (heck, even though i dont even run HMs )


Maybe 5 - 7 days later, can you try to see how much single leg calf raises can you do?
Protocol, single calf leg raise. Tempo = 2 to 3 seconds up, 2 to 3 seconds down. No need to do what pauses at the top or at the bottom, but very importantly the tempo must be well managed in the 2-3 seconds range for the test to count.

Either do it on flat ground, or if you are up to the challenge, do it elevated on top of a stack of 10cm high books for even higher range of motion. But flat ground works fine lah.


See how many number or reps you can rep out. Do until when your tempo starts to drop or your form breaks down, ie technical failure. No need to do until full and true muscular failure, as in like you start to shake and all that, which would also literally guarantee you'd have DOMS (ie inflammation) coz you have not been doing S&C.

This would let us have a glimpse as to how much muscular endurance that you currently have, albeit just for calves. There are also tests for quads/glutes but lets limit it to calves ba.
It also should be very good information for you to know and learn from as well.

 

[kaisin82]

Come to think of it, both legs cramp up once I stopped to get a refill of water in my flask. Not sure if there’s any correlations

 

[WussRedXLi]

Come to think of it, both legs cramp up once I stopped to get a refill of water in my flask. Not sure if there’s any correlations

Not a pro here.....i can only use AI.
Seems possible that it is neuro? And possibly max strength that the muscles can tahan (higher strength, less fatigue as it is operating at a lower treshold %), delaying fatigue force tolerance.

AI :
When you suddenly stop running to grab water, your muscles experience a rapid change from active, rhythmic contraction to static stress. This shifts your body's neuromuscular control, causing overused, fatigued muscles to lock up as they try to adapt.

 

[kaisin82]

32km is the cursed distance for many runners. Really need more LSD to train the leg resilience to repeated impact.

I don’t mind hitting a wall and run slow, having both thighs shut down was annoying. Aiyah the results is ridiculous. Pretty disappointing … oh well, next run next month hopefully it doesn’t happen