learning japanese

[dimitri_can]

Hi, anyone knows of any in-depth guide to particles and sentence construction? I'm self studying N5 right now and while I do understand the definitions that Genki has, I often find them insufficient as I always wonder which particle should I use and the general definition doesn't really seem to help(or maybe I'm just insecure).

Refer to my particle list under N5 section here

Does anyone also knows any book that gives an in-depth guide to sentence construction as well? I know the general rule is Subject-Object-Verb but I find that kinda inapplicable whenever I'm trying to formulate a sentence. I always have to type it out, google it and see if my sentence makes sense or not(maybe I'm just being very insecure again). I can mostly understand what people are saying/typing but when it comes to me constructing a sentence, I'm at a loss of how to do it. Any books that have in-depth guides to those 2 are appreciated as I find that's my stumbling block now.

It's not always Subject-Object-Verb. It can be something else like:

Topic は Place にいます, etc.

You can try these few books

Particles

Book 1


Book 2

Btw, I was speaking to a Japanese professional illustrator whom I met in an event and then speak with her online(since there wasn't sufficient time to talk during the event and hence I couldn't answer her questions), where I have some questions. In one sentence she went "かのんちゃん好きなのですね！わたしも大好きな子なので嬉しいです！" While I do understand she means she also likes the character(among the ones she drew) too and is very happy, what does the first なの function as? I mean the statement is still fine if it is "かのんちゃん好きですね！" so what does putting なの achieve? What does that なの act as? I know the second なの is used like a linkage verb, linking わたしも大好きな子 and 嬉しいです together(correct me if I'm wrong), so what does the first なの does?

For the explanation part, i think ahkeongさん has done a good job in explanation.
Just to add on, in short, i would say the 2 words here that i often use is 強調(emphasis) and 好奇心(curiosity)

Below would be my explanation....
かのんちゃん好きですね
(You like Kanon-chan,right?)

かのんちゃん好きなんですね
(You LIKE Kanon-chan,right? /spoken)
かのんちゃん好きなのですね
(You LIKE Kanon-chan,right? /written)

It's in GENKI Book 1, Chapter 12, grammar point number 1.
In the old book, it's on page 230.




Following is some extra info from Minna no Nihongo Chapter 26:

 

[dimitri_can]

How can I improve my writing skills e.g. the flow? Are there any websites or books? Are there model essay books?

what level are u currently at? N5? N4?
How's your speaking skills?

 

[dimitri_can]

At N3 but my speaking skills are probably at N4 level.

Maybe it would be good to specify what kind of writing? Diaries, Emails, business letters or...? Very hard to recommend a good book as i have like a few hundred over Japanese books at home...

 

[Janetsk]

For composition.

 

[yuukiXkaname]

なの relates to the ～のだ construction, and as such provides explanatory, secondary, or supporting information (which could be a reason, a cause, or other fact the speaker feels would aid in the listener's understanding). Note that the な is only used if the preceding word is a noun or な-adjective. Following a verb or い-adjective, only の is used:

(Please ignore all the kanji characters)

For Example:

あの公園はとてもきれいなの。 That park is beautiful.

よく見たら、その動物はどうやら猫なの。 When I took a closer look, that animal turned out to be a cat.

その後、ちょっと買い物に行ったの。 After that, I went shopping for a bit.

この宿題は本当に難しいの。 This homework is really difficult.

These sentences have a feminine sound to them; to make them more masculine, change の to んだ, or のだ in written form. んです, or のです in written form, is a polite equivalent which is also gender-neutral.

Also, while this doesn't come through in the English, the use of の implies that the preceding sentence plays a supporting role in the surrounding context. It's still important, but the role it plays is more like that of a framework which buttresses the speaker's main point. This is a somewhat delicate inflection, the complete treatment of which is beyond the scope of this question.

なの is used by females most of the time, but なんです may use by males too

In summary (a bit out of scope, for your info),

The examples here were all ending particles (jp: 終助詞).

Question

Used to indicate inquiry. Inclining intonation.
User: Children as general, or ordinary people towards their close ones (friends, family).


てつお：明日どこか行くの？
Tetsuo: Ar

Thanks for the answer. I have a question though. We're only taking about one thing, so I know Japanese have the tendency to repeat things to confirm the subject they are taking about hence that first statement but I don't see it fitting with any of the examples. Since we're on just one topic, omitting the なの will also make sense. There is no reasoning involved. All she continues afterwards was the second part of the statement. So saying "かのんちゃん好きですね！わたしも大好きな子なので嬉しいです！" would suffice, no? No secondary information is present as well as far as I could understand it so is there any particular need to add the なの down?

As for your examples with sentences ending with なの, I also wanna ask

If one can say "あの公園はとてもきれいなの。", base on the above question, you could also write that as あの公園はとてもきれいなのです" and it still will mean the same thing or you could even write it as あの公園はとてもきれいです and it will still refer to the same thing. I do understand from the explanation that なの that it is mostly use as a reasoning or provide any seconday/supporting info or such but in this example there is nothing that needs to deploy the usage of なの which is why I don't understand why she uses it in the first statement.

Same goes for the last example. "この宿題は本当に難しいの。" There is only 1 topic involved here, the difficulty of the homework so isn't saying この宿題は本当に難しいです。 enough if someone is asking you about the difficulty of the homework? You could even write この宿題は本当に難しいなのです。 and it'll still bring out the same point that the listener can understand hence I don't see the need to actually use なの in these case and am confused about it. It's like making the なの a very redundant part of the statement for those cases.

ごめんなさい、私はバカです。Ah Keongさんはもう少し簡単な言葉で話していただけますか。

Refer to my particle list under N5 section here



It's not always Subject-Object-Verb. It can be something else like:

Topic は Place にいます, etc.

You can try these few books

Particles

Book 1


Book 2



For the explanation part, i think ahkeongさん has done a good job in explanation.
Just to add on, in short, i would say the 2 words here that i often use is 強調(emphasis) and 好奇心(curiosity)

Below would be my explanation....
かのんちゃん好きですね
(You like Kanon-chan,right?)

かのんちゃん好きなんですね
(You LIKE Kanon-chan,right? /spoken)
かのんちゃん好きなのですね
(You LIKE Kanon-chan,right? /written)

It's in GENKI Book 1, Chapter 12, grammar point number 1.
In the old book, it's on page 230.




Following is some extra info from Minna no Nihongo Chapter 26:

http://img901.imageshack.us/img901/7022/V92k5Y.jpg[/IMG]

Okay, I can see from your point that なの being used here is more for emphasis but is there a reason for that emphasis? Basically the context of the conversation I had with her was she asked me which character she designed I liked the best and I replied her and then she replied with something like that so was the emphasis needed at all? It doesn't feel like it's an emphasis, more like a repeat of my answer so as to be sure(it feels like that to me at least) she isn't talking about a different subject as I am(am I approaching it in the right way?).

To be honest, from the examples from Genki you linked me I understand that. I've read through that part but it doesn't feel like a sentence to explain things hence I'm asking here. Sorry if I couldn't understand your point or Ah Keong's point but I'd like to be very sure of the thing so I could understand things better in future. ごめんなさい、私はバカです。dimitri_canさんはもう少し簡単な言葉で話していただけますか。



Thanks for recommending the books. I need to see if I can find it at Kino or not. Hopefully they have it.

 

[dimitri_can]

If its a repeat of the answer, then the statement would be just be 「かのんちゃん、大好きですね。」

I think maybe there could also be a sense of 好奇心。maybe she didnt expect u to like かのんちゃん。

At ur level, i think its a bit hard to understand as this is more N3/N4 level.

Also, just to add, using あなた may sound rude in this case

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080224084640AAXdURH

 

[yuukiXkaname]

If its a repeat of the answer, then the statement would be just be 「かのんちゃん、大好きですね。」

I think maybe there could also be a sense of 好奇心。maybe she didnt expect u to like かのんちゃん。

At ur level, i think its a bit hard to understand as this is more N3/N4 level.

Also, just to add, using あなた may sound rude in this case

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080224084640AAXdURH

Oh okay. Didn't know that. I was just referring to "you", nothing really specific. :|

That being said, I'll correct my statement. Really sorry about it.

 

[nnskage]

Btw, I was speaking to a Japanese professional illustrator whom I met in an event and then speak with her online(since there wasn't sufficient time to talk during the event and hence I couldn't answer her questions), where I have some questions. In one sentence she went "かのんちゃん好きなのですね！わたしも大好きな子なので嬉しいです！" While I do understand she means she also likes the character(among the ones she drew) too and is very happy, what does the first なの function as? I mean the statement is still fine if it is "かのんちゃん好きですね！" so what does putting なの achieve? What does that なの act as? I know the second なの is used like a linkage verb, linking わたしも大好きな子 and 嬉しいです together(correct me if I'm wrong), so what does the first なの does?

You must have done or said something to the illustrator which caused her to say that/come to the conclusion. It's like "oh I see you like kanon chan! She's my fav too so i'm glad!"

 

[dimitri_can]

For composition.

What problems do you encounter when writing composition?
Cannot form sentences or...?
Feel free to pm me if u need further assistance. =)

Not sure this book can help you.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/スラスラ書ける作文マジ...1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434987224&sr=8-1&keywords=作文

http://lang-8.com/159255/journals/118942407521133518528445748915815295406

http://abacus.bates.edu/~kofuji/StudyResources/checking.html

 

[Ah_keong]

Thanks for the answer. I have a question though. We're only taking about one thing, so I know Japanese have the tendency to repeat things to confirm the subject they are taking about hence that first statement but I don't see it fitting with any of the examples. Since we're on just one topic, omitting the なの will also make sense. There is no reasoning involved. All she continues afterwards was the second part of the statement. So saying "かのんちゃん好きですね！わたしも大好きな子なので嬉しいです！" would suffice, no? No secondary information is present as well as far as I could understand it so is there any particular need to add the なの down?

As for your examples with sentences ending with なの, I also wanna ask

If one can say "あの公園はとてもきれいなの。", base on the above question, you could also write that as あの公園はとてもきれいなのです" and it still will mean the same thing or you could even write it as あの公園はとてもきれいです and it will still refer to the same thing. I do understand from the explanation that なの that it is mostly use as a reasoning or provide any seconday/supporting info or such but in this example there is nothing that needs to deploy the usage of なの which is why I don't understand why she uses it in the first statement.

Same goes for the last example. "この宿題は本当に難しいの。" There is only 1 topic involved here, the difficulty of the homework so isn't saying この宿題は本当に難しいです。 enough if someone is asking you about the difficulty of the homework? You could even write この宿題は本当に難しいなのです。 and it'll still bring out the same point that the listener can understand hence I don't see the need to actually use なの in these case and am confused about it. It's like making the なの a very redundant part of the statement for those cases.

ごめんなさい、私はバカです。Ah Keongさんはもう少し簡単な言葉で話していただけますか。

Thanks for the reply yuukiXkaname さん,
Noob me think that there are two parts to answer this question fully.

To simply things, Noob me think that you may want to start with learning and understanding the ～のだ form construction which dimitri_can sensei recommended. This would explain the grammer part of this question.

Next is to understand the background of the usage which is provides explanatory, secondary, or supporting information (which could be a reason, a cause, or other fact the speaker feels would aid in the listener's understanding). Noob me would say that the use of the use of の does not have an equivalent in English Language, so sometimes your sensei may need to explain the from the Classicial Han Chinese Language (Han~Tang dynasty). This would explain the cultural context part of this question but noob me think its out of scope of this question but added for information purposes. In summary, I think dimitri_can sensei explanation would be in scope and more appropriate.

Allow me to apologise if the overload of explanation confuses you more that answer your question.

Conversation Tips: It's not how RIGHT you say it but how NICE you say it.

All the best!

 

[Ah_keong]

なの relates to the ～のだ construction, and as such provides explanatory, secondary, or supporting information (which could be a reason, a cause, or other fact the speaker feels would aid in the listener's understanding). Note that the な is only used if the preceding word is a noun or な-adjective. Following a verb or い-adjective, only の is used:

(Please ignore all the kanji characters)

For Example:

あの公園はとてもきれいなの。 That park is beautiful.

よく見たら、その動物はどうやら猫なの。 When I took a closer look, that animal turned out to be a cat.

その後、ちょっと買い物に行ったの。 After that, I went shopping for a bit.

この宿題は本当に難しいの。 This homework is really difficult.

These sentences have a feminine sound to them; to make them more masculine, change の to んだ, or のだ in written form. んです, or のです in written form, is a polite equivalent which is also gender-neutral.

Also, while this doesn't come through in the English, the use of の implies that the preceding sentence plays a supporting role in the surrounding context. It's still important, but the role it plays is more like that of a framework which buttresses the speaker's main point. This is a somewhat delicate inflection, the complete treatment of which is beyond the scope of this question.

なの is used by females most of the time, but なんです may use by males too

Noob me would like to apologise for the typo error and would like to add on to my post.

In summary (a bit out of scope, for your info, please ignore all the Kanji)

The examples here were all ending particles (jp: 終助詞).

Question

Used to indicate inquiry. Inclining intonation.
User: Children as general, or ordinary people towards their close ones (friends, family).

てつお：明日どこか行くの？
Tetsuo: Are you going somewhere tomorrow?

Explanation

To explain a circumstance. Declining intonation.
User: Children, female people. Light mooded.

かなこ：うん、町内会でちょっと用事なの。
Kanako: Yeah, I've got something up with the neighbourhood association.

Assent

Confirmation expression. Intonation can be either inclining or declining.

てつお：へえ、かなこちゃんってよく町内会に参加してたの。
Tetsuo: Wow, Kanako's quite active in the association, huh. You can see that it implies a certain degree of surprise of unexpectedness.

Light volition

To express volition, either an order or a prohibition, in a light manner. Declining intonation. (warning: do not use this if your Japanese language command is weak.)
User: female, towards someone of lower rank (e.g. younger people).

かなこ：そうよ。てっちゃんもいい加減町内会をサボらないの。そんなんだからいつまでたっても人見知りなんだから。ほら、明日一緒に行くの。いい？
Kanako: That's right. And Tec-chan, you ought to stop skipping association meetings. That's why you are always shy of other people. Come on, you should go together tomorrow. Oorah?

The {Noun/なAdj}-なの or {いAdj/Verb}-の ending particle has various usage, and according to くろしお出版's 日本語文型辞典, the primary users are different according to usage.

For your info.

 

[dimitri_can]

Our ahkeongさん is also a sensei btw. =)

 

[RocKMaTiC]

Hi, I'm going to take N4 soon but I'm still confused about the causative, passive and causative passive form.

What's the difference between causative and passive form? I know causative and causative passive differs by the subject.

Eg.
Causative
田中さんは息子に勉強させた。
Mrs Tanaka made her son study.

Causative Passive
息子は田中さんに勉強させられた。
(Mrs Tanaka's) Son was made to study by Mrs Tanaka.

Passive
息子は田中さんに勉強された。
Son got to study (under) Mr Tanaka. (Is this correct?)

Does that mean causative and causative passive is usually used by a 3rd person who is not in the sentence? As for passive, it can apply to 1st, 2nd or 3rd? Like, (僕が)だまされた (I) got tricked.

間違ったら、許してください。。ありがとう！

 

[dimitri_can]

What's the difference between causative and passive form? I know causative and causative passive differs by the subject.

Eg.
Causative
田中さんは息子に勉強させた。
Mrs Tanaka made her son study.

Causative Passive
息子は田中さんに勉強させられた。
(Mrs Tanaka's) Son was made to study by Mrs Tanaka.

Passive
息子は田中さんに勉強された。
Son got to study (under) Mr Tanaka. (Is this correct?)

Does that mean causative and causative passive is usually used by a 3rd person who is not in the sentence? As for passive, it can apply to 1st, 2nd or 3rd? Like, (僕が)だまされた (I) got tricked.

間違ったら、許してください。。ありがとう！

Causative: Person A made Person B/Thing do something

Passive: Person A 被 Person B done ＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿

私は　先生に　しかられました。
(I was scolded by Sensei. 我被老师骂了.

1.「母が子供をほめた」
→子供は母にほめられた
(The children were praised by mum)

2.「友だちが私を招待した」
→私は友だちに招待された
(I was invited by friend)

3.「社長が山田さんを呼んだ」
→山田さんは社長に呼ばれた
(Yamada-san was called by the CEO)



Maybe u can download the lesson synopsis under N4 section written by my students over here. It should help you. =)

Passive
息子は田中さんに勉強された。
Son got to study (under) Mr Tanaka. (Is this correct?)

->Son was made to study by Tanaka-san.

 

[dimitri_can]

Some extra info..

 

[saycheese]

How difficult is N3 generally ?
Somehow I just doesn't feel that my preparation thus far is enough enough.
Jlptの準備は足りないと思います...

 

[dimitri_can]

N3 is quite ez to pass.
N2 and N1 is of a different level altogether.
U can try the sample questions on the website.
www.jlpt.jp

 

[RocKMaTiC]

Causative: Person A made Person B/Thing do something

Passive: Person A 被 Person B done ＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿

私は　先生に　しかられました。
(I was scolded by Sensei. 我被老师骂了.

Maybe u can download the lesson synopsis under N4 section written by my students over here. It should help you. =)

Passive
息子は田中さんに勉強された。
Son got to study (under) Mr Tanaka. (Is this correct?)

->Son was made to study by Tanaka-san.

ありがとう、助かりました！

でも、「息子は田中さんに勉強された」と「息子は田中さんに勉強させられた」の意味は同じですか。
違ったら、どんなところ違いますか？

 

[dimitri_can]

ありがとう、助かりました！

でも、「息子は田中さんに勉強された」と「息子は田中さんに勉強させられた」の意味は同じですか。
違ったら、どんなところ違いますか？

前者は forced の意味が入っていない。
後者は ある

 

[RocKMaTiC]

前者は forced の意味が入っていない。
後者は ある

なるほど。わかりました！ありがとうございます！