learning japanese

alvinaloy

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fox1 said:
Bunka claims to be a good school with 'patented' teaching method, but no one here seems to say anything good about it. I guess Bunka is very hype?

Ikoma price like similar to Bunka.
I've been a student of Bunka for over 2 years. Started from Elementary and currently in pre-Advance 3. I won't say that Bunka is the best but I don't think it is fair to compare Bunka with other schools because it's a different teaching method. Students from Bunka tend to be stronger in grammer and form conversion but very weak in vocabulary.

rokugo said:
Well, how long did it take you to be "fluent" in English or Chinese? :)

Lets face it, unless one studies and lives in Japan, fluency is going to take a lifetime to achieve (if at all possible).
It is possible. A friend of mine got his JLPT1 after roughly 10 years of study (mostly part time). However, he really immerses himself in. He plays Japanese video games, watches Japanese anime, drama and variety shows. Reads Japanese manga and books. Makes Japanese friends in online games and tries to converse with them in Japanese. He even uses Japanese OS Windows.

BUT

This is only 標準語 (hyoujungo) or standard Japanese which people in Tokyo speak. If you are to go to other parts of Japan, you might be confused by their local dialects and accents.
 

noz

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gundamhamtaro said:
i studied at SP in 98 and learnt my basic japanese there thruout my diploma. it was free cos at tt time, dept of IT was called JSIST and had relations with japan(now dont know wat happen), so i could take it as my elective. all our sensei were japanese. i had 3 different senseis, 1 for each time. the basic part was the hardest as she couldnt speak much english and we pretty much had to guess what was been taught haha. however we were only taught the basic stuff and even in the exams the answers could pretty much be copied back from the questions. this is from '98-2000 so i dont know what it would be like now though

Seems like we were in the same batch. My teacher was yuko (name, forgot her surname) sensei, yoshida sensei and sakamoto sensei. 1 thing, I din learn much from there and I thought I learnt a great deal. I stopped after that and struggled with some self study and passed the JLPT 4 on 2000.

Then I never continue for 6 years although now and then I still watch Japanese drama, read some simple Japanese text. But those lessons were useless... after more then 100 hours of Japanese lessons, I still cannot even speak simple Japanese.

This yr, I decided to join Bunka and within 2 lessons, doubts that I have held for 6 years got cleared, and the overall idea of the language is now much more better.

Alot of Japanese language school teach you textbook form and rigidly follow that. The fact is in real life, very seldom Japanese speak like this. I had a friend who finished JLPT3 standard with JCS cannot understand what's the actor speaking in a Jap drama.

What Bunka ( I dunno if other schools do the same) teaches you is the core of Japanese language - different verbs form and how they are joined to form meaningful sentences. They also teaches pratical Japanese that is suitable to be used for daily conversation, for eg. Tradition courses like the one at JSIST will teach you:

Q: Ima wa nanji desuka?
A: Ima wa roku ji desu.

The fact is the "Ima wa" in that sentence above is considered like what hokkien says GEH GAN. When you want to ask what is the time now, just say "Nan Ji desu ka?"....
Things like this really speed up the learning process because you would not spend time learning extra stuffs.

They also teach students to recognise verb forms like go-dan verib, ichidan verb... irregular at an early stage, things that many Japanese schools introduce them to students after many many lessons.

But of coz, the bad thing in Bunka is they are so concentrated on grammar and conversation that they put little emphasis on vocabulary and learning new words. But frankly... new words are easy to pick up as long as u have a dictionary with you while for grammar, you would need a native to teach you.
 

onizuka_eiji

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Hi all,

I am a student at Bunko Lang, I think it is a fairly good school, but can't compare with other schools cos all the while I had been at Bunko.. currently doing intermediate course..

need help here, looking for a good Kanji handbook, any good titles and bookstore to recommed? I noe kino has quite a selection but not sure which is good.

thanks in advance.
 

VH2006

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Hi there, I'm using a Kanji dictionary published by Kodansha. According to my sensei, Kodansha is quite well-known.
 

unrealx262

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hi i just graduated from sec sch. wanna learn jap during holiday onwards ..any heard of spring language school ? www.sping.edu.sg good place ? cause plan to go there .. price fee ?
 

melovemanga

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Hmmm...If you can,be like me.Self-study all the way ! XD I myself am a sec 4 student waiting for O' level results.Japanese is really easy to self-study BUT only when you get the hang of it though(slacking a lot these days...).For people like you who are starting out,try and go for language schools which the more older people in this forum have gone through.They have a first-hand experience in each school(Ikoma,Bunka...etc).and you know what?I've never heard of these language schools before,until I came to this forum XD!


And as quoted from rokugo,in beginner stage,all schools will teach the same thing.The more important thing is how much time you can set aside for self-studies.Unfortunately,it doesn't hold true for me...lol!


On another note,I don't really intend to go to a language school until I reach level 2 standard of the JLPT(Once I get stuck that is...Knows almost all of the level 3 grammar,but seriously lacking in vocab and not very adept at writing kanji XD).
 

alvinaloy

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Self study all the way until JLPT 2 level? Hmmm... Pretty advanced standard and quite tough I would say. Self study is possible, but only up to a certain stage IMO. And JLPT 2 is pretty advanced.

Have you tried those past year JLPT 3 papers? How do you know which grammer is JLPT 3 level and which is 2 or 4? Do you know how many forms there can be for a verb? What about 敬語 (keigo)?
 

melovemanga

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Yep...chceked out a lot of sites already regarding the required grammar for level 3.Seems like I know all of them except a few such as ariuru/arieru(possible),hakanai(vain,hopeless),douse(eventually,in the end)...


And I do know some level 2 grammar,such as kagiri(as long as),gachi(tend to),base of Vmasu form+hajimeru(begin to do verb)...


Although I still need some more practice on my level 3 first before moving on to level 2,which is next year.Of course,I musn't neglect kanji and vocab as well.XD
Ya,I agree.Can only self-study up to a certain stage.But once I get stuck at level 2,surely I'll go to a language school.Which isn't anytime soon. XD


Regarding keigo,I don't really have problems with it.It's just a matter of remembering the verbs when I have the need to use it.I don't have any problems at all when conjugating verbs.It kinda comes out naturally...XD.I don't use keigo that often anyway.
 

ShougunX

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melovemanga>> Good Job! keep it up. i can see that u have lotsa passion for the language. even though sch helps, passion is even more impt. U can have the best teachers, but if u have no passion, u wun go far. on the other hand, if u have passion, learning is enjoyable in itself. i dunno about u guys but i used to go all excited when i learn a new verb or grammar or vocab.

as for keigo--erm, melovemanga, there's more, MORE to tat few often used verbs hahaa. but keep it up.
 

melovemanga

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Yeah,you're right.Passion is very important.Yeah,I too always get excited when I learn something new,because I know I have cleared another barrier in speaking the language more fluently. XD


Hmmm,yeah,I do know that there is a lot more honorific/humble words/structures than I know so far,but I won't be using them anytime soon.It's not everyday that I get to speak japanese with the japanese,let alone use keigo with them,lol.And I feel a bit 'malu' when I try to talk to one of them,because I'm scared I will jumble up my words.haha XD


Hmmm,yeah so that's it.I'm gonna stop slacking soon and start particing kanji!Gotta practice XD!
 

morohh

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Yeah self study is possible. I self study this year and just took the jlpt3 last saturday but from here on, I think I will go to a proper school as it'll facilitate better learning environment (No friends i can speak/train with atm).
 

alvinaloy

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I think sometimes you need a teacher to explain. Like what's the difference between けど, なのに and でも. It's pretty basic and they all mean 'but' but there may be little naunces and occasions which they can or cannot be used.
 

rokugo

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alvinaloy said:
It is possible. A friend of mine got his JLPT1 after roughly 10 years of study (mostly part time). However, he really immerses himself in. He plays Japanese video games, watches Japanese anime, drama and variety shows. Reads Japanese manga and books. Makes Japanese friends in online games and tries to converse with them in Japanese. He even uses Japanese OS Windows.

Perhaps we have a different understanding of the term "fluent". For me it simply means how well you can speak the language.
So by that definition I dont equate passing JLPT with being fluent. The exam tests only "passive" skills like reading and listening, not active skills like speaking and writing.

But dont get me wrong, Im not belittling his achievement.
Just that there is a big difference between literacy (which is what JLPT measures mainly) and fluency.
And I have no illusions of my own competency in the language either (though the 1.5 years living in Japan did help tremendously). I actually signed up for lvl 1 myself, but had to miss out last Sunday`s exam due to lack of preparation time. Not an easy nor fun thing to study for especially the grammar part, so many outdated expressions that have very little practical use in everyday life.
 

alvinaloy

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Well... He is able to hold a conversation in Japanese. He had to entertain some Japenese phone calls which my team sometimes receives. However, some Japanese friends of mine remarked that his Japanese is 'strange'. They didn't exactly define what this 'strange' means but I took it that he might have used words which they do not normally use. Like the Chinese used in Singapore, Malaysia, China and Taiwan are different.
 

noz

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I believe reaching JLPT 1 in 10 years is something achievable. And I mean standard, not just passing the test. If you are in JLPT 1 standard, you really can read a Japanese newspaper like a native, understand all the technical terms for eg, terms in finance, sports, technology, etc... on the pretext you are well-educated too.

So, its not impossible and its never too late to start. A language is a key to the door of another world
 

melovemanga

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@ alvinaloy:Ummm...You forgot some more words that can mean 'but',such as 'ga' and 'shikashi',but that's ok.I understand that you were just trying to give an example to show the need for a teacher.But books do help a lot too.There are books out there that clearly distinguishs the uses of these words so we know when to use it.XD



@rokugo:Yeah,I agree.JLPT is mainly to test how much you know about the language.It doesn't test how you can apply the language in everyday situations(ie. speaking).ONLY the listening part was practical though IMO.
 
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skizzi

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Hi all im new here , read the first few pages of this thread but its super long . Str8 to the point , where can i learn japanese ? I want it to be like my 3rd language . Is there like o levels fer japanese ? Enlighten me , thanks in advance , im very blur since there are so many schools . Im not learning it for fun , taking it seriously as if everyone is taking english language in singapore . 16 yrs old here btw . cheers !
 

surfuz

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Hi Bunka students,

I am presently at Ikoma and might switch schools. You guys keep saying that grammar in Bunka is intensely drilled. But does that make you all better at grammar? My vocab is pretty ok and I love learning vocab by myself so no problem if Bunka doesn't teach new words.

My grammar is not very strong and I don't really understand some grammar. Ikoma teaches grammar in a very std way which only applies to specific situtations and I don't really like that.

By the way, what kind of textbooks does Bunka uses for intermediate?
 
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