learning japanese

terraj

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I wish that beginner courses were taught in using the plain form. The ~u endings of the plain form make it so much easier when want to negate the verb for instance: ~u to ~a/wa, and basically any other form. It's a bit hard switching from masu form to plain form at first but once you've watched enough anime you'll soon find yourself thinking in plain form most of the time. :)
 

alvinaloy

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Errmmm.. What is plain form and what is plain Japanese language??? Dictionary form?
 

alvinaloy

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That's dictionary form to me.

Once you're used to the form switching, it'll be like 2nd nature.
 

3hubb3r

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PingJun said:
Hi, everybody.

This evening I have learnt the "plain" form of Japanese Language. And I think it is quite difficult. I kept seeing stars just now and I couldn't really answer in Plain form in class when my sensei asked me questions.

For the 4 forms [the te -, na-, ta & dictionary form], I have tried very hard to memorize, but, when the sensei asked the verbs to be changed to the 4 forms [te & ta still ok, mainly is the 1st & 3rd group for Dictionary & na form], my mind is totally blank.......

Thus, how can I remember for the 4 forms of the verbs & for the Plain Japanese Language?

Btw, is the Plain form of Japanese Language under JLPT 4 or JLPT 3?

Sorry for asking such question & pls advise. Thanks
all these forms are under JLPT 4

btw which textbook did you use?
 

PingJun

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I use "Minna no Nihongo" textbook.

Anyway, I think for plain form, not only dictionary form is used.
 

econsexpert

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I took jlpt many years ago (got L2 in 3 years, and stopped after that because L1 simply takes too much time).

From what I remember, jlpt4 does examine plain form, but they are relatively simple. From example, you should be able to recognize that da is the plain form of desu, and datta for de****a etc.

If you want to pass jlpt, my advice is to try the past year paper. They are available at kinokuniya or university libraries. Practise the listening comprehension especially because that is the toughest section. You will be in for a rude shock if you haven't practise the listening comprehension portion.
 

alvinaloy

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Anyway hor, plain form simply means informal form. And there can be up to 4 types of informal forms. Dictionary is only one of them.
 

direbmem

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econsexpert said:
I took jlpt many years ago (got L2 in 3 years, and stopped after that because L1 simply takes too much time).

From what I remember, jlpt4 does examine plain form, but they are relatively simple. From example, you should be able to recognize that da is the plain form of desu, and datta for de****a etc.

If you want to pass jlpt, my advice is to try the past year paper. They are available at kinokuniya or university libraries. Practise the listening comprehension especially because that is the toughest section. You will be in for a rude shock if you haven't practise the listening comprehension portion.
this is really impressive if prior to that u have no background..
 

terraj

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Actually it really depends on how much effort you want to put to studying the language. I've heard of people with no background, moving to Japan and passing JLPT2 within a year. For myself, I took the JLPT2 exam after 2.5 years, 2 years of which were spent attending class only once a week, but infused with trying to read mangas, novels and teaching myself JLPT2 grammar. Another of my classmate took the exam after 2 years because she attended JLPT preparation classes.

But JLPT isn't a really good indicator of ability in the language to be honest. Try reading stuff like the Japanese 2ch forums and you'll see where you really stand in terms of understanding colloqualism. That's the real challenge I've been facing. Speaking is another major problem since I don't have any Japanese friends. When I went to Japan early last year it was scary because the Tokyokkos speak so fast and my family was depending on me to translate everything and I could only understand 50% of what was going on. If I do visit Japan again it will probably be Osaka and while I understand Kansai ben in anime, I'm quite sure I'm going to be in for a rude shock when I get there. :)

Anyway just to show how it all boils down to effort (let's just exclude the natural linguists): I personally spoke to a person who never took Japanese classes, never stayed in Japan but picked up the language mostly by learning how to read hiragana/katakana and then learning the language through anime, manga, progressing to novels alone (granted this person's native language is Chinese so kanji wasn't much of an issue). And this person's understanding of the Japanese language is really impressive: able to write letters; can understand 90% of Japanese seiyuu radio. His only gripe is because he never attended formal Japanese classes, he doesn't really understand grammar in a logical sense like how they teach it in class but from an intuitive sense, and his wish is to one day find time to sit through a beginner's course to learn grammar the 'proper' way! :)

direbmem said:
this is really impressive if prior to that u have no background..
 
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direbmem

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terraj said:
Actually it really depends on how much effort you want to put to studying the language. I've heard of people with no background, moving to Japan and passing JLPT2 within a year. For myself, I took the JLPT2 exam after 2.5 years, 2 years of which were spent attending class only once a week, but infused with trying to read mangas, novels and teaching myself JLPT2 grammar.

But JLPT isn't a really good indicator of ability in the language to be honest. Try reading stuff like the Japanese 2ch forums and you'll see where you really stand in terms of understanding colloqualism. That's the real challenge I've been facing; speaking is another major problem since I don't have any Japanese friends.

Just to show how it all boils down to effort (let's just exclude the natural linguists): I personally spoke to a person who never took Japanese classes, never stayed in Japan but picked up the language mostly by learning how to read hiragana/katakana and then learning the language through anime, manga, progressing to novels alone (granted this person's native language is Chinese so kanji wasn't much of an issue). And this person's understanding of the Japanese language is really impressive: able to write letters; can understand 90% of Japanese seiyuu radio. His only gripe is because he never attended formal Japanese classes, he doesn't really understand grammar in a logical sense like how they teach it in class but from an intuitive sense, and his wish is to one day find time to sit through a beginner's course to learn grammar the 'proper' way! :)
haha i am kinda learning jap on/off too and i really know nuts abt the grammar. if i hear some japanese, sometimes i can make out the meaning by intuitively piecing together the vocab.but i cant form a proper sentence moiself..so now i want to reaaly learn formally.
 

dimitri_can

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ylsim said:
Could not get at Kinokuniya. Anyone have another source to get this book?
Or any one already have this book ...can photocopy and sell me a copy.
Thanks

Title
日本語会話〈中級 1〉基礎文法を使って日本語の世界をひろげよう


c5.jpg
あなたは欲しければ、私はAmazon JPで買えます。連絡してね。
MSN/Email: takahashi_tsubasa@hotmail.com
 

dimitri_can

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dimitri_can

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Kyururu said:
IMO, it's easier to convert plain form to -masu form than the other way around. Therefore usually i remember verbs in it's plain form. (easier when you lookup in dictionary too).

I think plain form is under JLPT 3.
Hi, Plain form(also known as 普通kei) is covered in end of JLPT 4 syllabus (Lesson 20 Minna no Nihongo)
 
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dimitri_can

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PingJun said:
Hi, everybody.

This evening I have learnt the "plain" form of Japanese Language. And I think it is quite difficult. I kept seeing stars just now and I couldn't really answer in Plain form in class when my sensei asked me questions.

For the 4 forms [the te -, na-, ta & dictionary form], I have tried very hard to memorize, but, when the sensei asked the verbs to be changed to the 4 forms [te & ta still ok, mainly is the 1st & 3rd group for Dictionary & na form], my mind is totally blank.......

Thus, how can I remember for the 4 forms of the verbs & for the Plain Japanese Language?

Btw, is the Plain form of Japanese Language under JLPT 4 or JLPT 3?

Sorry for asking such question & pls advise. Thanks
Hi, it's actually very ez... follow this fantastic formula, specially from me. =)

For Grp 3: Just memorise, する and くる

For Group 1 verbs(also known as 五段動詞 )
Conditions to fulfil Grp 1
1. Consist of 1 Kanji+1 Hiragana+ます
2. If you take away the ます、it ends with a i
(Note: 10% of 五段動詞 are Grp 2)

E.g
いきます・行きます 
Condition 1 Fulfilled? Answer: Yes
Condition 2 Fulfilled? Answer: if you take away the masu ikimasu->iki, it ends with a i.

So this is actually a 五段動詞(Grp 1).

Conjugation of 五段動詞 to 辞書形(Dictionary Form)
Step 1: Take away the ます
Step 2: Change the column from い-段(い、き、さ、し,etc) to う-段(う、く、す,etc)

That's all

E.g:
いきます・行きます 

Step 1: Take away ます->行き
Step 2: Change column from い-段 to う-段 (き->く)

Final Answer: 行く (YEAH!!!!)

Now try these 4. if you can get it right, u have understood my formula

待ちます
話します
急ぎます
走ります

Good luck in learning your forms.

Tsubasa
 
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PingJun

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dimitri_can said:
Hi, it's actually very ez... follow this fantastic formula, specially from me. =)

For Grp 3: Just memorise, する and くる

For Group 1 verbs(also known as 五段動詞 )
Conditions to fulfil Grp 1
1. Consist of 1 Kanji+1 Hiragana+ます
2. If you take away the ます、it ends with a i
(Note: 10% of 五段動詞 are Grp 2)

E.g
いきます・行きます 
Condition 1 Fulfilled? Answer: Yes
Condition 2 Fulfilled? Answer: if you take away the masu ikimasu->iki, it ends with a i.

So this is actually a 五段動詞(Grp 1).

Conjugation of 五段動詞 to 辞書形(Dictionary Form)
Step 1: Take away the ます
Step 2: Change the column from い-段(い、き、さ、し,etc) to う-段(う、く、す,etc)

That's all

E.g:
いきます・行きます 

Step 1: Take away ます->行き
Step 2: Change column from い-段 to う-段 (き->く)

Final Answer: 行く (YEAH!!!!)

Now try these 4. if you can get it right, u have understood my formula

待ちます
話します
急ぎます
走ります

Good luck in learning your forms.

Tsubasa
JLPT 3/4 先生

Thanks for your tips.

I will try & make use of them for learning the 4 forms :D :D
 

oekintaro

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Hi, I am just beginning to learn Japanese and will sign up for a class soon. Currently I am in Japan for short trip and I am thinking should I buy a Jap-English / English-Jap electronic dictionary here? Need some advice! Do you all think i should buy one here in Japan? If yes, any models you would recommend? for example casio? or canon?
 

dimitri_can

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oekintaro said:
Hi, I am just beginning to learn Japanese and will sign up for a class soon. Currently I am in Japan for short trip and I am thinking should I buy a Jap-English / English-Jap electronic dictionary here? Need some advice! Do you all think i should buy one here in Japan? If yes, any models you would recommend? for example casio? or canon?
If you have $$, go for http://store.yahoo.co.jp/digicon/xd-sw4800nb.html

http://www.thejapanshop.com/recommendationsjisho.htm
 
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direbmem

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i really love this thread man!!!cant believeso many pple eager to help one another!!! Thank you all!
 
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