learning japanese

[dimitri_can]

"when we connect a noun to it in front we always use を. examples are 手紙を書く、ご飯を食べる."

これを書いたら、その方は将来間違えるかもしれません。

その方は３級の学生だと思います。この文法は「みんなの日本語」第３８課で学びます。

もし「みんなの日本語」第３８課を勉強したら、「自動詞」と「他動詞」はもう学びましたよ。

 

[ahmahippo]

U should speak to me to find out more info. =)

I PM my MSN.

Hi, will add you in my msn soon as I cant login currently. dont know why

Although JLPT 3 & 4 are quite similar, I find that I am lost on JLPT 3, esp trying the past yr questions.....

JLPT 4 is still not too bad.....

hmm... is JLPT exams all held during dec. of each yr only? Wondering if JLPT 4 hard or not

PM me to ask about buying stuff. Not here

ok noted

 

[dimitri_can]

Hi, will add you in my msn soon as I cant login currently. dont know why




hmm... is JLPT exams all held during dec. of each yr only? Wondering if JLPT 4 hard or not




ok noted

Not hard... Don't worry.

 

[fox1]

Actually from what I remember, のは　and のを　works the same way in this case.
Search Yahoo Japan with のは忘れない. There are pages you see のは being used.

 

[PingJun]

Hi, will add you in my msn soon as I cant login currently. dont know why




hmm... is JLPT exams all held during dec. of each yr only? Wondering if JLPT 4 hard or not




ok noted

Currently, yes. JLPT exam is held on every 1st Sun of Dec every year. This year will be at 07/12/08.

You can try to do past year JLPT 4 questions to see whether you understand or not. To me, JLPT 4 is still not too bad. But this does not apply to listening part....

 

[fox1]

in this case, ur no changes the verb in front into a nou. 持ってくる is not a noun so by right u cannot perform an action on it. (think in english we cannot say "forget bringing").

so after u change 持ってくるinto a noun, u must connect it to the rest of ur sentence. はis used to denote the main subject and can be thought of in english as "is". so if we use no wa in this case, it will become "bringing please do not forget" weird, isn't it? u are asking the action to not forget something

since 忘れないでください comes from 忘れる which is a verb, when we connect a noun to it in front we always use を. examples are 手紙を書く、ご飯を食べる.

in other words, no wa CANNOT be used and there is a big difference.

After changing the action into a noun with の, it is no longer considered an action. More like a "matter". So using　は here, it means 'Do not forget the matter of bringing your documents please'.


So, I still think は can be used in this case.

Also は not equals to 'is'. です is more appropriate.

 

[ahmahippo]

Currently, yes. JLPT exam is held on every 1st Sun of Dec every year. This year will be at 07/12/08.

You can try to do past year JLPT 4 questions to see whether you understand or not. To me, JLPT 4 is still not too bad. But this does not apply to listening part....

wow...got listening one

errr... for JLPT exams, how many parts are they testing us? I heard must get 60% at least to pass?

 

[dimitri_can]

After changing the action into a noun with の, it is no longer considered an action. More like a "matter". So using　は here, it means 'Do not forget the matter of bringing your documents please'.


So, I still think は can be used in this case.

Also は not equals to 'is'. です is more appropriate.

I suggest u check with a Japanese...

But my check earlier with a friend earlier is that のを is the correct one...

のは in this case is inappropriate... Like what Niaosan and i said... 忘れる is a 他動詞, in this case, the "object" is
"The matter about bring the documents tomorrow"

If you put は、the meaning will change. I don't really know how to explain to u... But ya... The meaning will change.
http://www.jisho.org/sentences?jap=のは&page=2&eng=

Looking at the examples in that link, u would see the number of examples used for のは with a verb at the back.

This is from Minna no Nihongo. のは do not use a verb at the back.


From this book, u can see that 「を」 is used as 動作の対象, whereas for 「は」 is used as　主語提示. if u know what i mean.





"Also は not equals to 'is'. です is more appropriate."

I beg to differ. The combination of ～は～です means is, am, are... Not just は or です。 Not sure if your Japanese teacher has told u before.

 

[ender51244]

i think the above materials and niaoson's explanations are good enough.

both can be used, but the underlying meanings are different.

 

[Ah_keong]

wow.... u just startin or already started?

already started!!!

 

[Ah_keong]

Hi Guys

Need to seek your views... Thanks for all your sharing. I have learned quite a lot from your sharing.

I have completed my studies in JCS many years ago. I have not being using Japanese for more than a decade. Recently, I have interest to pick up Japanese again. My current standard is a little less than JLPT 3. Plan to catch up to JLPT 3 level (which I had passed previously) by end of this year and then take up Japanese lesson next year.

Seems you guys do not recommend JCS and prefer Ikoma because of class size, teaching methods... etc... Any one here have attend JCS Advanced 1 class? Is the situation still that bad in more advance classes as I understamd many students , like me previously, would have dropped out for some reason in the course of learning.

The course fees at JCS is about $500+ to $680. Is this course fees for the whole level of one year duration? If yes, I think it is good value for money. Can even include conversation course at JCS and still it is affordable.
But must also know what I will be getting at JCS from experienced persons like you guys who have been through this path.

How about the pre-Advanced course at Ikoma? What is good of the JLPT preparation notes and teaching from Ikoma? Any good teacher to recommend? I did not quite get it from the replies here. Appreciate your clarification.

Thanks for your guidance.

I would recommend JCS intermediate class this coming January... after u get ur JLPT 3, then chang to Ikoma or bunka...

 

[ahmahippo]

hehe... normally reg. for the class, need nric one ah?

 

[Ah_keong]

think need bah... and fill up the phone...

 

[BoringStuff]

anyone can recommend a japanese textbook?? need a textbook to drill my japanese grammar basics..is minna no nihongo good??

 

[dimitri_can]

anyone can recommend a japanese textbook?? need a textbook to drill my japanese grammar basics..is minna no nihongo good??

Ok. http://japanese.meetup.com/7/messages/boards/thread/3886441

 

[ahmahippo]

think need bah... and fill up the phone...

me nric got jap name lol... later they tot i pro ... but

 

[Ah_keong]

me nric got jap name lol... later they tot i pro ... but

they will treat u like expert and speak keigo with u...

 

[fox1]

I suggest u check with a Japanese...

But my check earlier with a friend earlier is that のを is the correct one...

のは in this case is inappropriate... Like what Niaosan and i said... 忘れる is a 他動詞, in this case, the "object" is
"The matter about bring the documents tomorrow"

If you put は、the meaning will change. I don't really know how to explain to u... But ya... The meaning will change.
http://www.jisho.org/sentences?jap=のは&page=2&eng=

Looking at the examples in that link, u would see the number of examples used for のは with a verb at the back.

This is from Minna no Nihongo. のは do not use a verb at the back.


From this book, u can see that 「を」 is used as 動作の対象, whereas for 「は」 is used as　主語提示. if u know what i mean.



"Also は not equals to 'is'. です is more appropriate."

I beg to differ. The combination of ～は～です means is, am, are... Not just は or です。 Not sure if your Japanese teacher has told u before.

I think Japanese is not so 固い.

For example, 水を飲みたい and 水が飲みたい. Both can be used interchangeably.

Noun need not always be followed by を　and verb. は is used as well but with different meaning depending on case.
肉を食べる - I will eat the meat now(at dinner table eg)
肉は食べる - I DO eat meat (when people ask whether you eat meat)

But のは、のを　achieve the same goal of telling the listener not to forget to bring the documents in this case.


For は~です, は has no equivalence in English. Just like there is no Japanese for 'it'.
寒いです - It is cold.
今夜は寒いです - It is cold tonight.
は when used, points out that it is 'tonight' that is cold.
I still stand by は not equal 'is'.

 

[terraj]

I would like to add to what Fox1 has mentioned.

I totally agree to the point that は is not 'is'.

In Japanese は is simply a topic marker. It doesn't mark the subject. That would be the job of が.

Even for the phrase 今夜は寒いです,
it's not so much saying that "tonight is cold" (which is bad English anyway), more like, "it is cold tonight". See the difference?
In English, the word "it" is an impersonal pronoun, which doesn't exist in Japanese. In the sentence "it is cold tonight", the "it" refers to the weather, and not tonight.
In Japanese, since "weather" is contextually understood, it can be dropped altogether, i.e. the "it' becomes an invisible pronoun in Japanese. （Actually, there is no such thing as weather is 寒い in Japanese. But because 寒い can only be used to describe coldness of the weather, coldness of the season, it's understood here you're referring to the weather)

I'll give you another example.

Suppose a group of friends are talking about favourite types of pets and the context has been established,
You could mention: 私は犬だ or 私は犬が好きだ.

It's not so much I is dog, but I like dogs.

So people who think は = is are very wrong. Unfortunately, this is one of the things that slip past us when learning the Japanese language becaues native Japanese teachers will not be able to explain this to us, just like it is difficult for them to understand the word "it".

For は~です, は has no equivalence in English. Just like there is no Japanese for 'it'.
寒いです - It is cold.
今夜は寒いです - It is cold tonight.
は when used, points out that it is 'tonight' that is cold.
I still stand by は not equal 'is'.

 

[kjaskk]

Hi Terraj

Thank you. Good explanation. This also reminded me of my previous mistake in the use of "wa" and "ga".

Now I am clear of their usage. Japanese and Korean are both very contexture languages. The "topic" being discussed may not be obvious without knowing the full context and thereby risk misintrepretation if we were to focus only on single sentence from a passage. I got into such problem previously.

Thanks for the reminder.