learning japanese

sugarbunny

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hello everybody. i'm completely new to japanese and i'm really interested to learn the language so i'm thinking of taking up the part time basic/elementary lessons after reading the postings, i've narrowed my choices down to bunka and ikoma. i can't really decide between the 2 schools. any advice? like how are the notes given there? or maybe the pros and cons of both schools?
 

dimitri_can

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there will be people who say Bunka is good or Ikoma is good.

I personally feel it's up to yourself to see what you really want.

There are people who went Bunka or Ikoma and drop out due to issues like fees problem, cannot cope la..

For a start, before u even go to a school, i advise you to start memorizing Hiragana, this will really help a lot.
 

sugarbunny

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there will be people who say Bunka is good or Ikoma is good.

I personally feel it's up to yourself to see what you really want.

There are people who went Bunka or Ikoma and drop out due to issues like fees problem, cannot cope la..

For a start, before u even go to a school, i advise you to start memorizing Hiragana, this will really help a lot.

any links to the hiragana i should memorise?

whats hiragana anyway? i'm kinda confused with this and kanji and romanji. :\
 

PingJun

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any links to the hiragana i should memorise?

whats hiragana anyway? i'm kinda confused with this and kanji and romanji. :\

Basically, Japanese Language is made up of hiragana, katakana and kanji.

Example of Hiragana: あ い う え お

Examples of Katakana: ア イ ウ エ オ

Romanji is something like English Alphabets.

The Romanji of the 5 examples of Hiragana / Katakana: a, i, u, e, o

As For Kanji, it is something like Chinese Characters.
 

JeanTay

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Learning Japanese

You can call Jessica at 92201086. She provides a list of tutors with varying rates for Japanese language. In that way you can choose whether you want to emphasize more on written or conversation. I took home tuition for French.=)
 

anfield22

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for 'what is hiragana' i recommend google.com

and yes, some say ikoma good, some say bunka is good, some people get sick of learning the language and give up, some people very passionate and study all the way. each individual's experience depends not only on the school, but also on how well he copes with the learning of a language. if your attitude is poor, the experience will be bad no matter which school you go to. consider the fact that even within a class, some students will be stronger than others. weaker students can think of many reasons why this is so, but the fact remains that they couldn't while others could.

the objective differences are the structure and payment. JCS modules last 1 year, ikoma 6 mths, bunka 2 mths if im not mistaken. whether you drop out after 2 months depends greatly on whether you have paid 2 or 6 months in fees.

while the school determines the syllabus, the teacher determines the style of teaching. some very experienced teachers may have a very personal and unique way of teaching. the less experienced may be generic and by-the-book, IME. that doesnt necessarily make them bad, it's just that they are not taking advantage of their own strengths.

written or spoken, not much difference. both speech and writing require grammar. being fluent is being fluent.

i personally feel it is better to learn from a native. would you learn chinese from anyone other than a chinese? japanese is both a language and a culture, and many elements of japanese culture are intextricably present in their language. there are also many aspects in japanese language for which there is no equivalent in english.
 
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azumangadaioh

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any links to the hiragana i should memorise?

whats hiragana anyway? i'm kinda confused with this and kanji and romanji. :\

-Containing romanji, hiragana, katakana and kanji and audio [ on how the word is pronounced ]
http://www.languageguide.org/nihongo/

-learn basic words from watching videos [ some of them are quite funny ], word games using flash videos and others
http://www.genkienglish.net/genkijapan/menu.htm

-the origins of katakana
http://www.jref.com/language/non_english_foreign_words.shtml

-hiragana and katakana trainer [ requires u to type out the answers ]
http://kana.icann.se/

-hiragana and katakana trainer also but I like this one better because of multiple choice options [ just need to use mouse and click ]
http://genki.japantimes.co.jp/self/site/gakusyu/

It's better to have some basic knowledge [ use these links to help u ] so that you can enjoy the lessons better instead of trying to copy down everything sensei says in class, and find it too hard then giving up halfway.
 

azumangadaioh

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I think it's easier to either use your own money or asking from parents [ it's easier for them to plan for family budget also, thus less likely to reject ] to pay for lessons to pay for lessons 200+ every 2mths rather than 5-600 dollars every 6mths.

That's one of the main reasons I choose my current school, since I cannot afford wasting time waiting for a new available class [ e.g. to start 2-3mths later only because I am short a little money to make full payment of 5-600 dollars last week to take part in this week's class ].

Sometimes, it's not just how the school teaches, but also how they structure the payment methods.
 
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dimitri_can

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I think it's easier to either use your own money or asking from parents [ it's easier for them to plan for family budget also, thus less likely to reject ] to pay for lessons to pay for lessons 200+ every 2mths rather than 5-600 dollars every 6mths.

That's one of the main reasons I choose my current school, since I cannot afford wasting time waiting for a new available class [ e.g. to start 2-3mths later only because I am short a little money to make full payment of 5-600 dollars last week to take part in this week's class ].

Sometimes, it's not just how the school teaches, but also how they structure the payment methods.
Are u sure that Ikoma makes u pay $600 in 1 shot?

57770688.gif
 
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dimitri_can

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the objective differences are the structure and payment. JCS modules last 1 year, ikoma 6 mths, bunka 2 mths if im not mistaken. whether you drop out after 2 months depends greatly on whether you have paid 2 or 6 months in fees.

JCS payment structure is you pay in Jan, Mar, Jul and Sept (4 installments)

1st payment about $150+
2nd payment-4th payment about $90+

Ikoma payment structure is by per term (10-12 sessions)

Bunka payment structure is also by per term (9-20 sessions depending on what level you take)

i personally feel it is better to learn from a native. would you learn chinese from anyone other than a chinese? japanese is both a language and a culture, and many elements of japanese culture are intextricably present in their language. there are also many aspects in japanese language for which there is no equivalent in english.

I beg to differ. anfield, you might be taught by a native Japanese before. A native Japanese can tell u things like their culture, etc. But a native might have difficulties telling you, where will be the parts that you will have problems in learning, because what they learn (国語) and what we learn (日本語) is different. There are accomplished teachers in JCS and Hougang that can do the same thing. If not, why do you think JCS and Hougang employ these teachers? For culture stuff, you can just grab a book off the bookshelf at Kinokuniya if you wish to know such stuff. All in all, i feel there are good and bad points.
 

azumangadaioh

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Are u sure that Ikoma makes u pay $600 in 1 shot?

57770688.gif

Total fee per course [ 2 terms ] = $560 [ incl GST ]
Textbook = $20 [ incl GST ]
Although 1 term = $280, it also means that I have to standby another $280, until I paid, so what happens when I am unable to do so when the 2nd term starts ? What are the available options ? [ please post them here for everyone's knowledge ]
 

dimitri_can

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$560 is inclusive of GST. In Bunka (correct me if i am wrong), u have to pay extra 7% for GST.

You pay by term. Just like in Bunka. You finish 9 sessions, you standby another $248. In Ikoma, if you are unable to pay up, speak to the manager, she may allow you to pay later, provided u have valid reasons. In Bunka what happens when you can't pay? Do you get to pay later as well? Same thing for Hougang, if you cannot pay up, you speak to the principal, he's very easygoing, he will just say you can pay by installment or pay later.

All schools are generally the same, if you can't pay up, they will allow you to make payment later.

Also, i think that you should go try out other schools as well. If you are stuck in a school for too long, you will never realise how well the other school teachers teach.

In case you don't know why Ikoma is charging so expensive as compared to Bunka, most of the Ikoma materials are self-prepared by the teachers, all teachers go through the Japanese teacher certification test to become a teacher. When i see those materials, i know how much time and effort they put in to develop these materials. There are other reasons why the school fees are expensive. If you go to their preparatory courses or even their normal classes, you will know what i mean.

Enough said, the choice is yours. You can ask Nemesis. He is your senior and took classes in Ikoma as well.
 
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sweet_vanilla

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Honestly speaking,
in terms of teaching all is the same. No matter where you go its the same. JCS teachers also do prepare their own teaching (as in those drawings and so on), but difference is that Ikoma classes are small classes and teachers will ask everyone questions as there is enough time to ask. As for JCS, the teachers only ask a few and only those who are listening in their class or those good students.
I've been in JCS for about 4 years and only 9 months in Ikoma. Somehow, though the fees at Ikoma is more expensive, I like Ikoma's way of teaching coz you can ask anything from help to personal stuff from the teachers.
Thats my 2 cents worth of opinion. Enjoy!
 

unfinished07

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Honestly speaking,
in terms of teaching all is the same. No matter where you go its the same. JCS teachers also do prepare their own teaching (as in those drawings and so on), but difference is that Ikoma classes are small classes and teachers will ask everyone questions as there is enough time to ask. As for JCS, the teachers only ask a few and only those who are listening in their class or those good students.
I've been in JCS for about 4 years and only 9 months in Ikoma. Somehow, though the fees at Ikoma is more expensive, I like Ikoma's way of teaching coz you can ask anything from help to personal stuff from the teachers.
Thats my 2 cents worth of opinion. Enjoy!

that's not a very good way of teaching
 

dimitri_can

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Not to mention that all Ikoma teachers have to pass the Japanese teaching proficiency test. In case you guys don't know what is it about...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Japanese language proficiency test

Just being a native speaker of Japanese does not necessarily mean one can teach Japanese professionally of course. Learning Japanese naturally from birth and learning Japanese as a second language later in life are completely different things. Many skills are required to be a teacher of Japanese, such as the ability to communicate across cultural barriers, a detailed knowledge about Japan and Japanese language and culture, and so on. To measure Japanese language ability and knowledge of teaching and education methods objectively, there is the Japanese language education proficiency test.

The Japanese language education proficiency test is administered by the Association of International Education, Japan (AIEJ). The purpose of the test is stated as "to confirm whether the knowledge and ability of individuals studying to become Japanese language teachers reaches the level required as a specialist of Japanese language education" (from the 2003 executive summary). Since this test was started in 1987 many Japanese schools have adopted its standards for Japanese teachers."
===================================
Topics tested in the exam

区  分 主 要 項 目
1 社会・文化・地域
1.世界と日本
(1)諸外国・地域と日本
(2)日本の社会と文化
2.異文化接触
  (1)異文化適応・調整
(2)人口の移動(移民・難民政策を含む。)
(3)児童生徒の文化間移動
3.日本語教育の歴史と現状
  (1)日本語教育史
(2)日本語教育と国語教育
(3)言語政策
(4)日本語の教育哲学
(5)日本語及び日本語教育に関する試験
(6)日本語教育事情:世界の各地域,日本の各地域
4.日本語教員の資質・能力
2 言語と社会
1.言語と社会の関係
(1)社会文化能力
(2)言語接触・言語管理
(3)言語政策
(4)各国の教育制度・教育事情
(5)社会言語学・言語社会学
2.言語使用と社会
  (1)言語変種
(2)待遇・敬意表現
(3)言語・非言語行動
(4)コミュニケーション学
3.異文化コミュニケーションと社会
  (1)言語・文化相対主義
(2)二言語併用主義(バイリンガリズム(政策))
(3)多文化・多言語主義
(4)アイデンティティ(自己確認,帰属意識)
3 言語と心理
1.言語理解の過程
(1)予測・推測能力
(2)談話理解
(3)記憶・視点
(4)心理言語学・認知言語学
2.言語習得・発達
  (1)習得過程(第一言語・第二言語)
(2)中間言語
(3)二言語併用主義(バイリンガリズム)
(4)ストラテジー(学習方略)
(5)学習者タイプ
3.異文化理解と心理
  (1)社会的技能・技術(スキル)
(2)異文化受容・適応
(3)日本語教育・学習の情意的側面
(4)日本語教育と障害者教育
4 言語と教育
1.言語教育法・実技(実習)
(1)実践的知識・能力
(2)コースデザイン(教育課程編成),カリキュラム編成
(3)教授法
(4)評価法
(5)教育実技(実習)
(6)自己点検・授業分析能力
(7)誤用分析
(8)教材分析・開発
(9)教室・言語環境の設定
(10)目的・対象別日本語教育法
2.異文化間教育・コミュニケーション教育
  (1)異文化間教育・多文化教育
(2)国際・比較教育
(3)国際理解教育
(4)コミュニケーション教育
(5)異文化受容訓練
(6)言語間対照
(7)学習者の権利
3.言語教育と情報
  (1)データ処理
(2)メディア/情報技術活用能力(リテラシー)
(3)学習支援・促進者(ファシリテータ)の養成
(4)教材開発・選択
(5)知的所有権問題
(6)教育工学
5 言語一般

1.言語の構造一般
(1)言語の類型
(2)世界の諸言語
(3)一般言語学・日本語学・対照言語学
(4)理論言語学・応用言語学
2.日本語の構造
  (1)日本語の構造
(2)音声・音韻体系
(3)形態・語彙体系
(4)文法体系
(5)意味体系
(6)語用論的規範
(7)文字と表記
(8)日本語史
3.コミュニケーション能力
  (1)受容・理解能力
(2)言語運用能力
(3)社会文化能力
(4)対人関係能力
(5)異文化調整能力

An example question
82135004.jpg
 
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Ah_keong

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-Containing romanji, hiragana, katakana and kanji and audio [ on how the word is pronounced ]
http://www.languageguide.org/nihongo/

-learn basic words from watching videos [ some of them are quite funny ], word games using flash videos and others
http://www.genkienglish.net/genkijapan/menu.htm

-the origins of katakana
http://www.jref.com/language/non_english_foreign_words.shtml

-hiragana and katakana trainer [ requires u to type out the answers ]
http://kana.icann.se/

-hiragana and katakana trainer also but I like this one better because of multiple choice options [ just need to use mouse and click ]
http://genki.japantimes.co.jp/self/site/gakusyu/

It's better to have some basic knowledge [ use these links to help u ] so that you can enjoy the lessons better instead of trying to copy down everything sensei says in class, and find it too hard then giving up halfway.

This is cool stuff :D
 

Ah_keong

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Honestly speaking,
in terms of teaching all is the same. No matter where you go its the same. JCS teachers also do prepare their own teaching (as in those drawings and so on), but difference is that Ikoma classes are small classes and teachers will ask everyone questions as there is enough time to ask. As for JCS, the teachers only ask a few and only those who are listening in their class or those good students.
I've been in JCS for about 4 years and only 9 months in Ikoma. Somehow, though the fees at Ikoma is more expensive, I like Ikoma's way of teaching coz you can ask anything from help to personal stuff from the teachers.
Thats my 2 cents worth of opinion. Enjoy!

ok bah.
I 've been in JCS for 3 years and 1 year + in IKOMA.
so far so good. I would advise IKOMA for advance students especially due to the small class size. :D
 

azumangadaioh

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$560 is inclusive of GST. In Bunka (correct me if i am wrong), u have to pay extra 7% for GST.

You pay by term. Just like in Bunka. You finish 9 sessions, you standby another $248. In Ikoma, if you are unable to pay up, speak to the manager, she may allow you to pay later, provided u have valid reasons. In Bunka what happens when you can't pay? Do you get to pay later as well? Same thing for Hougang, if you cannot pay up, you speak to the principal, he's very easygoing, he will just say you can pay by installment or pay later.

All schools are generally the same, if you can't pay up, they will allow you to make payment later.

Also, i think that you should go try out other schools as well. If you are stuck in a school for too long, you will never realise how well the other school teachers teach.

In case you don't know why Ikoma is charging so expensive as compared to Bunka, most of the Ikoma materials are self-prepared by the teachers, all teachers go through the Japanese teacher certification test to become a teacher. When i see those materials, i know how much time and effort they put in to develop these materials. There are other reasons why the school fees are expensive. If you go to their preparatory courses or even their normal classes, you will know what i mean.

Enough said, the choice is yours. You can ask Nemesis. He is your senior and took classes in Ikoma as well.


-In Bunka, every level is defined as a "course", every "course" that's completed is paid in full and completely before you start the "course". Not everyone is obliged to "standby" another "$248" for the next "course', for whatever reason it may be. Like if I finish Ele1 today, I can choose to sign up [ and pay for ] Ele2, next week, next mth, 4mths later, or even next year. Personally I DO NOT WANT to feel obligated to standby another sum of money just so that I can complete a level of study properly [ without a peace of mind ], in case I have financial commitments elsewhere to use it immediately anytime. I am sure no school will be willing to wait more than 1 mth for payment, and no student would be able to focus on learning if money issues are always at the back of his head [ like how to pay for the 2nd half of the 10 lessons ]. At least I know that when I pay $X for Y lessons, that's the end of it, just go for lessons and finish 1 whole course with no worries.

-you stated "speak to the manager, she may allow you to pay later, provided u have valid reasons", in this case, I feel a person's situation that creates inability to pay is "valid reason" enough from that person's point of view. Not to mention "may allow ... to pay later", not 100% will allow, and how "later" is "later" ?
Every school is a for profit business, not a charity, I think it will only be approved on very rare occasions, and will be open to abuse if word gets out.


-I "stuck" to one school because
a) I do not have deep pockets like others who signs up for practically every major language school in Singapore
b) My time is limited as I have my own ad-hoc work aside from a normal job
c) My money is limited as my ad-hoc work requires [ sometimes sudden ] upfront costs to pay, and the income from this work does not come in predictably.
d) I like to focus on one school at a time.

-So only Ikoma in Singapore has all their teachers who took part in the Japanese teacher certification test.

-In case you don't know, the rental per sq feet at Shaw House [ near mrt / main shopping area ] is obviously more expensive than Delfi Orchard [ far end of main shopping zone ] which is also factored into the lesson fees.

-I have already made my choice 15 months ago [ this forum was one of the places where I made my final decision about which school to join ]... Eventually I will join this school that you hold so much praise about [ and every other school in sg ]. For now, I like to bury my head in the sand ... :D
 
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