New 10Gbps/5Gbps/6Gbps/3Gbps XGS-PON based plans

[HiHelloBye]

Actually i was surprise to see that the price of such device never go down and yet went up instead. May be many people upgrading to 10 Gbps internet.

it's SGD$385 @ Shopee & Lazada

 

[hwzlite]

On bro @TanRich predicament on 10G fallback to 2.5G....

Time for our the weekend's armchair knowledge refresher :



Can skip most of the technical talk and start from 18 to 29:30mins marks , which offer high level insight on Auto-Negotiation followby Link Training , esp on potential interops issue that does not play well with others vendor's ethernet chips .

 

[xiaofan]

Actually i was surprise to see that the price of such device never go down and yet went up instead. May be many people upgrading to 10 Gbps internet.

Amazon Qnap Store is selling QNAP T310G1T at S$288.63 but it does not seem to be shipped to SG.

The SFP+ version QNA-T310G1S is cheaper at S$259.53 plus S$12.83 shipping fee.
https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/1E8782D8-16B1-47B4-A7AC-8DBF84F80BA6

SABRENT Thunderbolt 3 to 10 Gbps RJ-45 Ethernet Adapter (TH-S3EA) at S$218.54 plus S$12.10 shipping fee.
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Thunderbolt-Ethernet-Adapter-TH-S3EA/dp/B08J59QKGT/?th=1

OWC Thunderbolt 3 10G Ethernet Adapter, (OWCTB3ADP10GBE) at S$271.84 plus S$12.83 shipping fee.

I think you may need to add 8% GST as well. We have not done any Amazon purchase for many years.

 

[Henry Ng]

On bro @TanRich predicament on 10G fallback to 2.5G....

Time for our the weekend's armchair knowledge refresher :



Can skip most of the technical talk and start from 18 to 29:30mins marks , which offer high level insight on Auto-Negotiation followby Link Training , esp on potential interops issue that does not play well with others vendor's ethernet chips .

yes it is quite deep. When 1Gbps was newly launched got many issues and surprisingly today 10Gbps newly launched also got issue.

 

[TanRich]

Just an update. Didn't experience any drop in link rate for most of today until I decided to do some cable management with cable ties. The fiber patch from FTP to ONT connection is a bit sensitive and I saw a network outage (Internet not connected) in Network Status. When it came back online a few moments later, link rate reconnected at 2.5Gbps. So I took bro Hafi's advice again and did an ONT power cycle but then it was still connected at 2.5Gbps. Then I power cycled the ONT and rebooted the main router. This time round then the link rate returned to 10Gbps. I went to check the Fiber patch's connection to the FTP and to the ONT and pushed both ends of the fiber patch in more firmly, then experienced another network outage and 2.5Gbps link rate again. Repeated the above solution and the link rate was restored to 10Gbps. Afterwards I tried to replicate the scenario again by moving the fiber patch cable around a bit but seems that the link rate is stabilised at 10Gbps for now. Will continue to monitor stability and reliability through. next week.

 

[TanRich]

yes it is quite deep. When 1Gbps was newly launched got many issues and surprisingly today 10Gbps newly launched also got issue.

Just wondering if any senior bros had subscribed to the first wave of 10Gbps fiber broadband that launched in 2016 from ST, M1 or VQ?

And if they faced similar problems with stability, reliability etc?

 

[Mach3.2]

Just an update. Didn't experience any drop in link rate for most of today until I decided to do some cable management with cable ties. The fiber patch from FTP to ONT connection is a bit sensitive and I saw a network outage (Internet not connected) in Network Status. When it came back online a few moments later, link rate reconnected at 2.5Gbps. So I took bro Hafi's advice again and did an ONT power cycle but then it was still connected at 2.5Gbps. Then I power cycled the ONT and rebooted the main router. This time round then the link rate returned to 10Gbps. I went to check the Fiber patch's connection to the FTP and to the ONT and pushed both ends of the fiber patch in more firmly, then experienced another network outage and 2.5Gbps link rate again. Repeated the above solution and the link rate was restored to 10Gbps. Afterwards I tried to replicate the scenario again by moving the fiber patch cable around a bit but seems that the link rate is stabilised at 10Gbps for now. Will continue to monitor stability and reliability through. next week.

Got try another cable? I suppose the 10G port left unused back when you're on SI?

I see similar issue on old laptop's RJ45 ports that was left unused and wasn't covered, the connection on those ports can be intermitant, possibly due to oxidation of the contacts in the RJ45 port. If you have SFP+ to 10GbE RJ45 modules, can try those instead to rule out your router's 10G port being finicky?

 

[TanRich]

Got try another cable? I suppose the 10G port left unused back when you're on SI?

I see similar issue on old laptop's RJ45 ports that was left unused and wasn't covered, the connection on those ports can be intermitant, possibly due to oxidation of the contacts in the RJ45 port. If you have SFP+ to 10GbE RJ45 modules, can try those instead to rule out your router's 10G port being finicky?

Oh, you mean the ONT to PC connection or ONT to main router then PC? I've been using the Thunderbolt 3 ports on the PC and also the Thunderbolt 3 docking station to do the speed tests.

 

[TanRich]

Amazon Qnap Store is selling QNAP T310G1T at S$288.63 but it does not seem to be shipped to SG.

The SFP+ version QNA-T310G1S is cheaper at S$259.53 plus S$12.83 shipping fee.
https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/1E8782D8-16B1-47B4-A7AC-8DBF84F80BA6

SABRENT Thunderbolt 3 to 10 Gbps RJ-45 Ethernet Adapter (TH-S3EA) at S$218.54 plus S$12.10 shipping fee.
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Thunderbolt-Ethernet-Adapter-TH-S3EA/dp/B08J59QKGT/?th=1

OWC Thunderbolt 3 10G Ethernet Adapter, (OWCTB3ADP10GBE) at S$271.84 plus S$12.83 shipping fee.

I think you may need to add 8% GST as well. We have not done any Amazon purchase for many years.

The SFP+ version of the QNAP adapter is my preferred one for longer term use with the PC because when compared to the 10GBaseT version, it's fanless and runs cooler and quieter. The 10GBaseT one can sound like a jet engine in prolonged use but the fan is necessary for a reason.

The issue with the fanless TB3 to 10Gbps RJ-45 adapters is that they will tend to run uncomfortably hot after prolonged use and cause performance/speed degradation vs the SFP+ or adapters with internal fans.

 

[TanRich]

The SFP+ version of the QNAP adapter is my preferred one for longer term use with the PC

But to use the SFP+ adapter, you'll need a 10G switch with both SFP+ and 10G RJ-45 ports.

I previously used this fanless unmanaged switch from QNAP before upgrading to the current Zyxel one.

Got it for around S$242 back in 2021, price on Amazon didn't change much: S$247 including shipping.

QNAP QSW-308-1C 10GbE Switch, with 3-Port 10G SFP+ (One 10GbE SFP+/RJ45 Combo Port) and 8-Port Gigabit Unmanaged Switch​

 

[Mach3.2]

Oh, you mean the ONT to PC connection or ONT to main router then PC? I've been using the Thunderbolt 3 ports on the PC and also the Thunderbolt 3 docking station to do the speed tests.

I'm talking about the connection between your ONT and router. Ignore everything else downstream because the problem is the link between your ONT and router.

 

[xiaofan]

Just wondering if any senior bros had subscribed to the first wave of 10Gbps fiber broadband that launched in 2016 from ST, M1 or VQ?

And if they faced similar problems with stability, reliability etc?

Old discussion thread here:
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/battle-of-the-10gbps-st-si-m1-vq.5331878/

If your issue is not related to cable (hard to tell now), but rather ONT compatibility with the Asus RT-AX89X router, then I think the old plans may have less issues like yours.

Power users went to VQ (Metro Ethernet) and SI (Optical Ethernet) at that time. I think they have less issues like yours since they were not using XG-PON ONT or XGS-PON ONT at that time. SI users needed to be care about the SFP+ module they were using.

Singtel was using XG-PON ONR at that time and only changed to XGS-PON ONR recently so there will be less issues like yours. Maybe M1users would face similar issues as yours since it was using XG-PON ONT. However, I think M1 5G and 10G services were dropped pretty soon. Maybe this is the reason that M1 is careful this time and not offering the 10G service yet.

BTW, Starhub is now using XGS-PON ONR now and again it will be less likely to have issues like yours.

Maybe MR users will more likely to have issues like yours as it is using XGS-PON ONT.

So looks like there are reasons why ISPs may tend to offer ONR and not ONT for 10G services...

 

[TanRich]

I'm talking about the connection between your ONT and router. Ignore everything else downstream because the problem is the link between your ONT and router.

That's a good point, all my ethernet cables are from 2 years ago. I'll order a new Cat 8 patch cable from ATZ to test the ONT to router connection next week.

 

[Mach3.2]

That's a good point, all my ethernet cables are from 2 years ago. I'll order a new Cat 8 patch cable from ATZ to test the ONT to router connection next week.

I'll focus on getting the link between your ONT and router to stop dropping from 10GbE to 2.5GbE.

I suspect your speedtest drops from 7-8Gbps down to 2Gbps because the link speed between your ONT and router dropped to 2.5GbE while you're doing your speed test.

 

[TanRich]

Old discussion thread here:
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/battle-of-the-10gbps-st-si-m1-vq.5331878/

If your issue is not related to cable (hard to tell now), but rather ONT compatibility with the Asus RT-AX89X router, then I think the old plans may have less issues like yours.

Power users went to VQ (Metro Ethernet) and SI (Optical Ethernet) at that time. I think they have less issues like yours since they were not using XG-PON ONT or XGS-PON ONT at that time. SI users needed to be care about the SFP+ module they were using.

Singtel was using XG-PON ONR at that time and only changed to XGS-PON ONR so there will be less issues like yours. Maybe M1users would face similar issues as yours since it was using XG-PON ONT. However, I think M1 5G and 10G services were dropped pretty soon. Maybe this is the reason that M1 is careful this time.

BTW, Starhub is now using XGS-PON ONR now and again it will be less likely to have issues like yours.

Maybe MR users will more likely to have issues like yours as it is using XGS-PON ONT.

So looks like there are reasons why ISPs may tend to offer ONR and not ONT for 10G services...

Thanks for the insights. The funny thing is, I actually opted to upgrade to Starhub's XGS-PON service earlier in the year as my 2Gbps plan was up. But I made sure the CSO stated in black and white on the contract that I will only use the ONR in bridge mode (they told be that could be done) and will use my own router for all network routing functions. When the senior network engineer came over for installation, he told me they don't have the capability to bridge the ONR at that moment, so the service was not activated. So I went back to StarHub and showed them the black and white and they terminated the service, no fees. The strange thing is that the ONR that SH provided looked very similar to the one MR installed, both are Nokia as well. I'm wondering if both are one and the same...

 

[TanRich]

I'll focus on getting the link between your ONT and router to stop dropping from 10GbE to 2.5GbE.

I suspect your speedtest drops from 7-8Gbps down to 2Gbps because the link speed between your ONT and router dropped to 2.5GbE while you're doing your speed test.

Will also get a chance to test with new Asus 10G router when it arrives the coming week.

 

[TanRich]

Got try another cable? I suppose the 10G port left unused back when you're on SI?

Oh, sorry missed the second part of your question... Both 10G ports on the RT-AX89X were fully used. The SFP+ port taken up by SI's SFP+ transceiver handoff and the other 10GBaseT port connected by Cat 8 patch cable to 10G switch to feed two other AiMesh nodes/satellites for increased Wifi coverage.

 

[TanRich]

If you have SFP+ to 10GbE RJ45 modules, can try those instead to rule out your router's 10G port being finicky?

Argh brain a bit slow today sorry, missed this part as well. I had tested with a patch ethernet cable into my SFP+ to 10GbE RJ45 module in the SFP+ port and both 10G ports' performance is roughly the same when doing speed tests. Many thanks for the troubleshooting tips again.

 

[xiaofan]

Thanks for the insights. The funny thing is, I actually opted to upgrade to Starhub's XGS-PON service earlier in the year as my 2Gbps plan was up. But I made sure the CSO stated in black and white on the contract that I will only use the ONR in bridge mode (they told be that could be done) and will use my own router for all network routing functions. When the senior network engineer came over for installation, he told me they don't have the capability to bridge the ONR at that moment, so the service was not activated. So I went back to StarHub and showed them the black and white and they terminated the service, no fees. The strange thing is that the ONR that SH provided looked very similar to the one MR installed, both are Nokia as well. I'm wondering if both are one and the same...

I tend to think Starhub got two types of Nokia ONR. They have two options for the 10G UltraSpeed trial with the same monthly pricing at S$69.30 with all the perks (including 24 months of Premier+, 12 months of Disney+ and 12 months of Viu Premium).
https://www.starhub.com/personal/broadband/ultraspeed.html

1) All-in-one Nokia XGS-PON ONR with WiFi 6 function. This is the one they are pushing now. They used the words like "the most advanced 10Gbps mesh Wifi 6 router with 3 LAN port".

Starhub FAQ
https://www.starhub.com/personal/support/article.html?id=kD5GRQtfxB3LxaEDMjuFm5

Starhub typical configuration -- actually the ONR 10G LAN port should go to a 10G switch, or at least a 10G router/AP with two 10G ports, or a PC/NAS with 10G port (not the best option). The 10G router may need to configure in AP mode to avoid Double NAT).

2) Nokia XGS-PON ONR without WiFi 6 function, but allowed to top-up for TP-Link Archer AXE300. Now this choice is not available as the TP-Link Archer AXE300 is out of stock.

I tend to believe this ONR is very much similar to the MR ONT, but probably with different configuration.

Hopefully Starhub 10G UltraSpeed users will come out the confirm their Nokia ONR model number.

 

[Henry Ng]

I tend to think Starhub got two types of Nokia ONR. They have two options for the 10G UltraSpeed trial with the same monthly pricing at S$69.30 with all the perks (including 24 months of Premier+, 12 months of Disney+ and 12 months of Viu Premium).
https://www.starhub.com/personal/broadband/ultraspeed.html

1) All-in-one Nokia XGS-PON ONR with WiFi 6 function. This is the one they are pushing now. They used the words like "the most advanced 10Gbps mesh Wifi 6 router with 3 LAN port".

Starhub FAQ
https://www.starhub.com/personal/support/article.html?id=kD5GRQtfxB3LxaEDMjuFm5

Starhub typical configuration -- actually the ONR 10G LAN port should go to a 10G switch, or at least a 10G router/AP with two 10G ports, or a PC/NAS with 10G port (not the best option). The 10G router may need to configure in AP mode to avoid Double NAT).

2) Nokia XGS-PON ONR without WiFi 6 function, but allowed to top-up for TP-Link Archer AXE300. Now this choice is not available as the TP-Link Archer AXE300 is out of stock.

I tend to believe this ONR is very much similar to the MR ONT, but probably with different configuration.

Hopefully Starhub 10G UltraSpeed users will come out the confirm their Nokia ONR model number.

Which is a better option? ONR with WiFi 6 function or use TP-LInk for Wifi?