*Official* Shiny Things club - Part 2

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dan0099

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Hi all

I am currrently using IBKR for my VWRA monthly investments (started last month).

Does anyone have any recommendations on what order type to use and how to estimate the number of units of both USD and VWRD to buy? (Or how to calculate this.)

I underestimated bOth the number of units of USD to convert and number of units of VWRA last month and ended up with a hundred ish SGD and USD left
 

kram62

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Hi all

I am currrently using IBKR for my VWRA monthly investments (started last month).

Does anyone have any recommendations on what order type to use and how to estimate the number of units of both USD and VWRD to buy? (Or how to calculate this.)

I underestimated bOth the number of units of USD to convert and number of units of VWRA last month and ended up with a hundred ish SGD and USD left
You should use a LMT order, at or a bit above the ask price. When doing MKT orders, IBKR requires more "security margin" for the funds in case prices suddenly fluctuates. This makes it hard to "use up" all the cash. With a limit order, there can be no bad surprise, the max cash cost is known. So the cash margin limits are much smaller which means you can use up most of the cash (plus or minus the cost of one VWRA unit because you can only buy whole units).

TL;DR: use limit orders
 

Okenba

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You should use a LMT order, at or a bit above the ask price. When doing MKT orders, IBKR requires more "security margin" for the funds in case prices suddenly fluctuates. This makes it hard to "use up" all the cash. With a limit order, there can be no bad surprise, the max cash cost is known. So the cash margin limits are much smaller which means you can use up most of the cash (plus or minus the cost of one VWRA unit because you can only buy whole units).

TL;DR: use limit orders

I understand that IBKR only posts delayed Ask/Bid prices. What would be the best way to check the most current Ask/Bid prices?
 

tangent314

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I underestimated bOth the number of units of USD to convert and number of units of VWRA last month and ended up with a hundred ish SGD and USD left


That sounds about right. Don't worry too much about that, the balance can be rolled over into the next month's purchase.
 

snorex

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I understand that IBKR only posts delayed Ask/Bid prices. What would be the best way to check the most current Ask/Bid prices?

Same issue here. What I do is go to google finance and I get to see the last done price live. From there I will make a guess. Not perfect obviously.
 

limster

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Same issue here. What I do is go to google finance and I get to see the last done price live. From there I will make a guess. Not perfect obviously.


You can get 33 live snapshot quotes for LSE-listed stocks free every month on IBKR :s13:
 

kram62

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Could you share where we can set this in the IBKR mobile app, please?
It's not really in the app, it's in the account management pages, in the settings and market subscription section. I don't remember exactly the names but that's somewhere there. You can technically access them through the app, by going to account management, which opens in some internal browser of the app, but the UX is a bit harder to navigate on mobile. I did it on the desktop computer by logging in through IBKR's website.
 

jellyboy

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Anyway this is the procedure I follow, which I think strikes a good balance between using up most of the cash balances of both currencies while leaving a little buffer, ensuring a very high probably have getting the trade completed, while avoiding black swan events that can screw you over if you set MKT.

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/117462331-post2910.html
Must we do the fx conversion? I was able to transfer in SGD and buy shares in USD straight

Sent from Samsung SM-G950F using GAGT
 

daniel92

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Hi all

Could I get your thoughts/views on using a Roboadvisor such as Stashaway? I've done some reading up online and the general impression I got was that it is decent for people who otherwise cannot be bothered/would not otherwise even make any investments but generally because of the fees charged, it would still be better off for a "savvy" person to buy their own stocks/equities/investments etc.

I've tried out Stashaway for almost a year now and the returns indicated on the app seems to be really good? The time weighted return is 11.41% and the money weighted return is 10.69%. Can't say that I understand these terms fully but these seem to be pretty good returns. (Or are the returns just a stroke of luck / tend not to be representative of the long term picture?)

Unless I am missing something? In terms of charges.. I paid about $3.30 for them managing about $5000+ of my funds which works out to be about 0.06% of the "AUM". I guess the cost may be significant because every month they charge a % of the total money you put inside whereas for trades the % fees are on the amount bought/sold...
 

kram62

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Must we do the fx conversion? I was able to transfer in SGD and buy shares in USD straight

Sent from Samsung SM-G950F using GAGT
Are you on a margin account? Did you check whether your usd cash balance is negative (with your sgd balance still positive).
If that's the case, you just borrowed usd on margin (backed by a sgd collateral).
If not, do you see a FX conversion transaction that was made for you automatically?
 

Okenba

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Hi all

Could I get your thoughts/views on using a Roboadvisor such as Stashaway? I've done some reading up online and the general impression I got was that it is decent for people who otherwise cannot be bothered/would not otherwise even make any investments but generally because of the fees charged, it would still be better off for a "savvy" person to buy their own stocks/equities/investments etc.

I've tried out Stashaway for almost a year now and the returns indicated on the app seems to be really good? The time weighted return is 11.41% and the money weighted return is 10.69%. Can't say that I understand these terms fully but these seem to be pretty good returns. (Or are the returns just a stroke of luck / tend not to be representative of the long term picture?)

Unless I am missing something? In terms of charges.. I paid about $3.30 for them managing about $5000+ of my funds which works out to be about 0.06% of the "AUM". I guess the cost may be significant because every month they charge a % of the total money you put inside whereas for trades the % fees are on the amount bought/sold...

If you went in at the end of last year when the market was down, basically all markets made good gains for 2019.
For costs, you can check the StashAway pricing page. You should currently be paying 0.8% + ETF costs. You may be paying less because of some referral when you signed up.

If you're just looking for a Robo, AutoWealth also has competitive pricing.
Only thing is that the min investment for AW is 3k.
 

CWL84

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Hi all

Could I get your thoughts/views on using a Roboadvisor such as Stashaway? I've done some reading up online and the general impression I got was that it is decent for people who otherwise cannot be bothered/would not otherwise even make any investments but generally because of the fees charged, it would still be better off for a "savvy" person to buy their own stocks/equities/investments etc.

I've tried out Stashaway for almost a year now and the returns indicated on the app seems to be really good? The time weighted return is 11.41% and the money weighted return is 10.69%. Can't say that I understand these terms fully but these seem to be pretty good returns. (Or are the returns just a stroke of luck / tend not to be representative of the long term picture?)

Unless I am missing something? In terms of charges.. I paid about $3.30 for them managing about $5000+ of my funds which works out to be about 0.06% of the "AUM". I guess the cost may be significant because every month they charge a % of the total money you put inside whereas for trades the % fees are on the amount bought/sold...

I'm not a fan of our local roboadvisors. Going from their website, their fees are high and it keeps increasing as your AUM grows. How did you end up paying so little fees? You also have to pay 30% dividend witholding tax to the US government instead of 15% because almost all of these roboadvisors are investing in US domiciled ETFs. There's also the issue of US estate tax for US domiciled ETFs although I know stashaway managed to find a way around it. Not sure how other roboadvisors handle the issue of US estate tax.
 

investpedia2019

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Hi Shiny Things and BBCW, I have restricted stock plan listed in NYSE vesting over 5 years with this year already vested.
Based on market price, this year vesting is ~ US$15k.
My current investment portfolio is ~ S$55k with 20% in MBH, 20% in ES3 and 60% in IWDA.
S$20k of my emergency fund is put in StashAway.

My plan is to sell the stock and fund my investment portfolio based on current ratio.
Does this plan make sense for people that receive stock from their companies?

Also, for wire transfer of USD from Etrade, is sending to local bank SGD account the best option? I will then use it to fund my MBH, ES3 and IWDA through DBS Vickers and IB.
 

BBCWatcher

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Hi Shiny Things and BBCW, I have restricted stock plan listed in NYSE vesting over 5 years with this year already vested.
Based on market price, this year vesting is ~ US$15k.
My current investment portfolio is ~ S$55k with 20% in MBH, 20% in ES3 and 60% in IWDA.
S$20k of my emergency fund is put in StashAway.
Just FYI, emergency reserve funds are ordinarily stored in principal stable vehicles, such as government insured bank accounts and savings bonds. Whether you should have funds invested via Stashaway should be evaluated on its own terms. There's really no meaning in labeling those Stashaway funds, specifically, as "emergency." Your holdings in MBH, ES3, IWDA, and vested U.S. listed shares are just as liquid and just as "emergency" if they're not in restricted accounts (such as CPF Investment Scheme and Supplementary Retirement Scheme accounts).

The point of an emergency reserve is to have some pool of funds that can tide you over for 6 or more months during some emergency, such as a bout of unemployment, without tapping your long-term investments. Naturally, in a dire, long emergency, you might have to tap your long-term investments. You hope not to need to do that, of course.

My plan is to sell the stock and fund my investment portfolio based on current ratio.
Does this plan make sense for people that receive stock from their companies?
If you're allowed to sell each tranche upon vesting, sure, yes, that's typical. You have something like US$60K of this stock that'll be vesting (depending on the market price when each tranche vests), and that's a gigantic percentage of your current total portfolio. You really don't want to be so concentrated in a single stock, so you ought to unwind that concentration to stay more diversified as soon as allowed. Also, the U.S. tax treatment (dividend and estate) on U.S. listed stocks isn't all that favorable to non-U.S. persons.

Also, for wire transfer of USD from Etrade, is sending to local bank SGD account the best option? I will then use it to fund my MBH, ES3 and IWDA through DBS Vickers and IB.
If you're allowed to send the funds directly from your stock plan's custodian (Etrade I presume) to Interactive Brokers, that'd be best by far. Another, probably even better option (especially if Etrade charges a sales commission) is to request a "partial ACATS" transfer of the vested shares themselves into your Interactive Brokers account, without selling the shares at Etrade. Then you use IB to sell the shares, using the U.S. dollar proceeds for the IWDA leg of your ordinary investing. There shouldn't be any need to convert those particular U.S. dollars to Singapore dollars since you have ongoing IWDA buying. And that'll mean reducing or pausing your Singapore dollar deposits into your IB account and conversion of Singapore dollars to U.S. dollars since you'll have a supply of U.S. dollars from the sale of your vested shares. To request a partial ACATS of the shares themselves you would initiate the request at Interactive Brokers, and then they would work directly with Etrade to complete the in-kind transfer of the vested shares.
 
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Han Shot First

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There's also the issue of US estate tax for US domiciled ETFs although I know stashaway managed to find a way around it. Not sure how other roboadvisors handle the issue of US estate tax.

How does StashAway find a way around the issue of U.S. estate tax?

The Singapore robo-advisors that trade U.S. domiciled ETFs, although they claim to be "digital" financial advisors, just ignore U.S. estate tax. They do not mention it anywhere publicly e.g. on their websites or FAQs. They behave like they don't have fiduciary duty to their clients. Personally, I think MAS ought to revoke their licenses for not providing adequate or proper financial advice to their clients regarding the U.S. estate tax issues, especially if they obtained a Financial Advisor license from the MAS to operate in Singapore.
 

daniel92

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@Okenba / @CWL84

Thanks for your replies/thoughts!

Based on my records, I started investing via Stashaway around March 2019.

In terms of the fees, I think I benefitted from some online referral link which gave me 50% off the management fees for the first 6 months... which I guess expired wef September 2019. So from September onwards, I have been paying about 0.06++% which when multiplied x12 months I think adds up to about 0.8% per annum (which is the fees applicable to the balances below $25k)

I guess the question is that with the current returns being at 10-11% with my portfolio at Stashaway, the 0.8% per annum seems like an okay/acceptable amount of fee to pay. But if such returns are generally unsustainable/maybe not going to hold in the long-term, then maybe I should think twice about continuing to pump money into Stashaway? I've read some articles online about the drawbacks of Stashaway (including maybe being too conservative because of its bond allocation even at the highest risk profile setting) as well as how in the long-term , the fees do eat up quite a bit into the investment returns.

I'm planning to start putting in money into IWDA using the Standard Chartered online brokerage service... Should I stop my monthly contribution to Stashaway and see how/if the good returns I'm currently getting on Stashaway are sustainable? I've about $5k in Stashaway at the moment so was thinking it might be a good time to pause and see how it goes before I put more money in.
 

Okenba

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@Okenba / @CWL84

Thanks for your replies/thoughts!

Based on my records, I started investing via Stashaway around March 2019.

In terms of the fees, I think I benefitted from some online referral link which gave me 50% off the management fees for the first 6 months... which I guess expired wef September 2019. So from September onwards, I have been paying about 0.06++% which when multiplied x12 months I think adds up to about 0.8% per annum (which is the fees applicable to the balances below $25k)

I guess the question is that with the current returns being at 10-11% with my portfolio at Stashaway, the 0.8% per annum seems like an okay/acceptable amount of fee to pay. But if such returns are generally unsustainable/maybe not going to hold in the long-term, then maybe I should think twice about continuing to pump money into Stashaway? I've read some articles online about the drawbacks of Stashaway (including maybe being too conservative because of its bond allocation even at the highest risk profile setting) as well as how in the long-term , the fees do eat up quite a bit into the investment returns.

I'm planning to start putting in money into IWDA using the Standard Chartered online brokerage service... Should I stop my monthly contribution to Stashaway and see how/if the good returns I'm currently getting on Stashaway are sustainable? I've about $5k in Stashaway at the moment so was thinking it might be a good time to pause and see how it goes before I put more money in.

Some things you may want to note:
- Stashaway listed fees do NOT include fund expense ratios. That means that if Stashaway invests in IWDA for you, you pay IWDA 0.2% for their management fee. This 0.2% is over and above the 0.8% listed by Stashaway.

- Stashaway uses US domiciled ETFs. As mentioned, this means your dividends get taxed by 30%, as opposed to 15% if it was suitably domiciled.

It really depends on what you see the Robo's value add as.
If they're just there to automate passive index investing, well, perhaps if you really don't have time, inclination or discipline to DIY...
If you think Stashaway's strategy gives you the edge, then perhaps that is worth the additional fee?

Personally, I'd go heavy on the DIY and leave a small sum in StashAway just to track for my own interest...
 
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