Official Shiny Things thread—Part III

[shallow]

Thanks swan02 and elemention for doing the hard work for the informations that everybody is dying to know!

Sent from Samsung SM-N950F using GAGT

 

[viventa]

Ark !! I was told two accounts of one llc and one SG allowed and I even reiterated to the staff to clarify..... I will again speak to them to triple confirm. Cuz I really like the idea of two diff accounts.

They so screw up like a GIRO issue I had and it went in circles.

Thanks for clarifying

If possible, do ask them to confirm whether GST will be payable on transactions relating to non-SG stocks on IBKR SG!

 

[swan02]

Alright. This is the second time I've asked IB and spoke to a different person. Both gave the same reply that TWO accounts are allowed. One IB LLC and the other IB SG and can be kept at the same time. The following is the conversation pertaining to the more recent..................


ME: account enquiry

Shiv K: Hello, this is 'Shiv K'. Please allow me a moment to read the question you submitted to iBot and I'll respond to you shortly.

ME: Hi. I wish to clarify and issue.

Can I have two accounts whereby one is IB LLC and the other IB singapore.....thus keeping two accounts simultaneously

Shiv K: Please allow me a minute to check on it

ME: please do because people are getting different messages when speaking to you guys. Thanks

Shiv K: Yes you can have both accounts simultaneously, however SGD denominated products can only be traded from IB-SG account.

ME: ic. Then another questions regarding maintenance fees and 100k usd

are these accounts linked ?

Shiv K: NO these account will not be linked account, since the entities for both accounts will be different

ME: ic. So how does the authenticator work to access this accounts if I use the same mobile number ?

I will assume I will have two different username and two different passwords ?

Shiv K: Right on the same phone you will be able to add additional user for authentication

ME: and since they are not linked. I will also incur >= 100k usd x 2 to ensure I do not have to incur maintenance fee ?

also x2 usd 10 maintenance fees as well ?

Shiv K: Right since they are independent accounts they will have separate fees as well

ME: do I still use the same Username and PW for both accounts ?

Shiv K: Since these account will not be linked account, they cannot have same user name and password

ME: ic. its much clearer now. Thanks very much and bye

 

[swan02]

Also I wish to add pertaining to IB LLC vs SG

1. Since they are two separate entity. We have to treat them separately. This begs the question how financially stable is IB SG ?

2. We can thus compare IB SG against FSMone in financial strength etc as the parent IB LLC may not help IB SG in the event of bankruptcy or financial mismanagement.

3. anyone has means to their paid up capital or financial statements for us to peruse ?

4. Anyone wishes to refute the concerns of IB SG ?

 

[swan02]

Ok. I’ll do that on my next very free day. Seems like everydAy.

If possible, do ask them to confirm whether GST will be payable on transactions relating to non-SG stocks on IBKR SG!

 

[swan02]

As you may have already read. I called them again to verify against the first person I spoke to after reading your message.

So two persons says things that runs against the person you spoke to.

Can you perhaps call them again ? .......The second person I spoke to, took 10 mins to clarify. It was pretty obvious he spoke to a Supervisor of such. The risk is such that that Supervisor may be telling members of his team one story, whereas the other "Supervisor" maybe advising other members differently......in other words, ******* up which we all know happens all the time between Supervisors.

Hi Swan02, I saw your post about the new changes to IB SG accounts and decided to clarify with the IB service staff too. Just came back from a 1 hour long comprehensive chat with the IB staff and I thought it will be good to provide these updates here for everyone to know!

1. You are right that there will no longer be a forced conversion. However, we will not be able to have 2 accounts with different entities.
This means that we can only choose to either keep the existing IB LLC account or request to transfer to the new IB SG account.

!

 

[shallow]

As you may have already read. I called them again to verify against the first person I spoke to after reading your message.

So two persons says things that runs against the person you spoke to.

Can you perhaps call them again ? .......The second person I spoke to, took 10 mins to clarify. It was pretty obvious he spoke to a Supervisor of such. The risk is such that that Supervisor may be telling members of his team one story, whereas the other "Supervisor" maybe advising other members differently......in other words, ******* up which we all know happens all the time between Supervisors.

thanks swan, seems like fsmone is still the way to go for RSP-ing into sg equity unless one has >100k AUM in SG assets.

 

[crystalnox]

thanks swan, seems like fsmone is still the way to go for RSP-ing into sg equity unless one has >100k AUM in SG assets.

IB doesn't do any RSP plans anyway so if you want automation, there's no other better alternative.

And if you want cheap sg equity, there's no beating Tiger Brokers. I think they should be quite safe for SGX stuff as MAS and SGX are located right here. In the event that if they go bust, I'm sure MAS can sort ownership and records out easily with SGX.

 

[swan02]

1. When comparing two competing investment. You have to look at the risk. Two risks exists. One is Equity like risk (risk on), and the other is credit risk (risk off)+duration risk (sensitivity to interest rate movement).

1. MBH has little of Risk on, and majority is risk off. Risk OFF and ON are still risk going at two different directions usually but may move the same way too !
2. CPF has ZERO risk unless you think the SG govt is an arse and won't return your money at 65 as some people actually do believe. For something that has zero risk, the expected rate of return is approx 0.4%. However, CPF has a risk that is neither risk off or on, it basically you not being able to touch it until much later in life. Hence what you are facing is opportunity cost risk !

It is an opportunity cost risk when you are faced with comparing against equity !, because a well diversified equity for the last donkey years has never lost money but made HUGE gains. That gains can amount to 4% or more annualised on top of CPF. Do that over donkey years and its really really big. Go look at the chart comparing a 30 year time frame with movement every 5 years and all you see is a straight line up with equities.

Hence that blended 4-5 percent return from CPF is actually reasonable to reward you for not touching your money. It is like an extremely long term deposit with zero chance of accessing it till much later in life.

So really, at least to me, you should compare CPF to a balanced portfolio of 40/60, rather against MBH.

3. Lastly and I think i've mentioned to you and is glaringly obvious is putting money into CPF exposes you to another opportunity cost which is taking advantage of "REBALANCING" benefits as well as "DIPS" or as BBC or flowerpalms and many more increase their monthly purchases while DCA during a recession.

4. Lastly, what makes you think for certain the govt will always have it at 2.5% or 4% or 5% ?

5. I think you already know the answer and wish there is some very good reason to support your notion of wanting to invest into CPF rather than purchasing MBH.

6. All I see are two different benefits. I think CPF really works on those with much lower risk tolerance, those who like to fidget with their allocation and also the first to run thus selling low, buy high. If you are those, perhaps CPF rather than MBH might do you good, as people in this category will NOT even rebalance, and might even completely stop investing during a crash thus negating the benefits of keeping a buffer aka MBH and cash.

If the yield-to-maturity of MBH is about 2.4%, would it make more sense to contribute to one's CPF OA the money (cash) one would have used to buy more MBH? Main reason: interest rate of CPF OA is higher at 2.5%. And if one did a contribution to 3 CPF accounts, namely OA, SA and MA, the "blended" interest rate is even higher.

 

[swan02]

I was recently buying crap loads of bonds via FSMone foolishly thinking that since i'm a Silver member, would entail $10 fees plus GST plus SGX fees. Shockingly the total was a lot more than I expected !!!..Must be the darn SGX fees and the GST levied on top of it.

So I think its reasonable to use IB SG as firstly I think Elemention said no GST for now ?, so the 0.05% and $2.50 min per month is really nothing especially when u r buying MBH.

1. So HNW people would be keeping IB LLC (SIPC + FX+ international)and IB SG (equity+bonds+ 75k insurance)+FSMone (Bonds purchase+75k insurance)+SCB (good for reits investors buying multiple counters + 75k Insurance)+ Tiger (reits investors + 75k SG insurance)

2. Medium NW would be keeping IB LLC+FSMone via batching or IB SG

IB doesn't do any RSP plans anyway so if you want automation, there's no other better alternative.

And if you want cheap sg equity, there's no beating Tiger Brokers. I think they should be quite safe for SGX stuff as MAS and SGX are located right here. In the event that if they go bust, I'm sure MAS can sort ownership and records out easily with SGX.

 

[swan02]

Ok called them. Frankly speaking I don't quite understand what he was saying.

The representative keeps bundling all taxes such as stamp duties e.g by foreign domiciled instruments. He specifically says SINGAPORE GST do not apply to those instruments.

I told him, I'm specifically referring to the trading fees charge by IB SG for e.g. 0.05% with 1.70usd min used to purchase certain internationally domiciled shares.

Representative says you can't treat them separate.

hmm..i've then nothing to say except to accept that NO GST TAX applied to trading fees incurred by IB SG when purchasing foreign domiciled (in my opinion, i'm certain that GST will apply as people do mention SCB shows gst applicable ?).

But he did mention GST will apply to locally bought shares.

.............frankly speaking, I don't trust what I hear anymore. I would rather listen to an actual person who actually has 1. open IB LLC + IB SG and using them simultaneously, 2. already using IB SG to trade, thus verify GST existence when purchasing international domiciled.

If possible, do ask them to confirm whether GST will be payable on transactions relating to non-SG stocks on IBKR SG!

 

[bobobob]

Ok called them. Frankly speaking I don't quite understand what he was saying.

The representative keeps bundling all taxes such as stamp duties e.g by foreign domiciled instruments. He specifically says SINGAPORE GST do not apply to those instruments.

I told him, I'm specifically referring to the trading fees charge by IB SG for e.g. 0.05% with 1.70usd min used to purchase certain internationally domiciled shares.

Representative says you can't treat them separate.

hmm..i've then nothing to say except to accept that NO GST TAX applied to trading fees incurred by IB SG when purchasing foreign domiciled (in my opinion, i'm certain that GST will apply as people do mention SCB shows gst applicable ?).

But he did mention GST will apply to locally bought shares.

.............frankly speaking, I don't trust what I hear anymore. I would rather listen to an actual person who actually has 1. open IB LLC + IB SG and using them simultaneously, 2. already using IB SG to trade, thus verify GST existence when purchasing international domiciled.

Customer service reps are often wrong.

 

[3dfxplayer]

Hi Swan02, I saw your post about the new changes to IB SG accounts and decided to clarify with the IB service staff too. Just came back from a 1 hour long comprehensive chat with the IB staff and I thought it will be good to provide these updates here for everyone to know!

1. You are right that there will no longer be a forced conversion. However, we will not be able to have 2 accounts with different entities.
This means that we can only choose to either keep the existing IB LLC account or request to transfer to the new IB SG account.

1(A) So if we choose to keep our existing IB LLC account, no action is required on our end as of now and we can trade international stocks expect SG stocks. Also, we will be eligible for third party protection like the SIPC which covers IB LLC accounts.

1(B) If we choose to have the new IB SG account and request a transfer, we can trade both International as well as SG stocks. However, there will not be third party protection like the SIPC. Our assets will remain segregated from IBKR's business accounts in custodian account "ABN AMRO Singapore Branch"

(Take note that this choice of either keeping the IB LLC account or going with the new IB SG account only applies to existing customers. For new customers, it will automatically only be IB SG)

For those that have applied to transfer or already transferred like myself, we can submit a ticket requesting to revert via the account management page.
Personally, I feel that there might still be changes and will probably take some time before all these updates are finalized. Hope that these information will be useful for you all!

This is excellent news!

 

[elemention]

As you may have already read. I called them again to verify against the first person I spoke to after reading your message.

So two persons says things that runs against the person you spoke to.

Can you perhaps call them again ? .......The second person I spoke to, took 10 mins to clarify. It was pretty obvious he spoke to a Supervisor of such. The risk is such that that Supervisor may be telling members of his team one story, whereas the other "Supervisor" maybe advising other members differently......in other words, ******* up which we all know happens all the time between Supervisors.

So I just went to clarify in depth with the IB staff and the answers I got are really good news!

1. Yes we are allowed to have both IB LLC and IB SG for now! However, this is not permanent and may be subjected to changes in the future. (Even the supervisor themselves could not give a timeline and do not know as well)

2. GST will currently not be included for all IB SG transactions (Both SG and Non-SG products). The reason is because they are not GST registered at the moment but this might change in time to come.

This is really good news especially for those planning to trade using IB SG during this period when they are still not GST registered. Anyway I will be attaching the transcript of the conversation as well for the benefit of everyone else.

IB SG Account Clarification

Ronald Wong: Hello, this is 'Ronald Wong'. Please allow me a moment to read the question you submitted to iBot and I'll respond to you shortly.

ME: Hi. I wish to clarify this question: Can I have two accounts whereby one is IB LLC and the other IB SG, thus keeping two accounts simultaneously?
Because i was being told yesterday that we were given a choice to choose either IB LLC or IB SG. We were not allowed to have 2 accounts under different entities.
Could you confirm this ?

Ronald Wong: Yes it is allowed. We just received a update that you can keep both IB SG and IB LLC

ME: Will we able to keep both IB LLC and IB SG permanently?

Ronald Wong: We have not heard it will be permanent
But later in the future, if there are any changes to IB LLC, we will inform you.
For now, you can have both IB LLC and IB SG.

ME: Another question i have is: Will GST be included for the IB SG transactions?

Ronald Wong: Not at the moment, we're not GST registered now but it may happen in time to come.

ME: So GST will not be included for SG or Non-SG stocks right?

Ronald Wong: That is right, GST will not be included for both as of now.

ME: Okay thanks for the clarification! Bye Bye!

 

[swan02]

Yeh that sounds correct. Since IB SG is new, and taxable turnover hasn't hit
$1 million.

Which also means, its just a matter of time before GST is compulsory.

And I would assume based on your conversation GST is levied on the trading fees even if you trade non SG shares once gst registered

IB SG Account Clarification

ME: Another question i have is: Will GST be included for the IB SG transactions?

Ronald Wong: Not at the moment, we're not GST registered now but it may happen in time to come.
!

 

[crystalnox]

Honestly GST isn't that big a deal right? 7% on S$2.50 or <US$1 per trade isn't much. Not even 20cents.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Honestly GST isn't that big a deal right? 7% on S$2.50 or <US$1 per trade isn't much. Not even 20cents.

Going to 9% within the next couple or few years if the government sticks to its plan.

 

[moolala]

i would assume GST will only apply to those IB SG accounts?

 

[highsulphur]

Seriously guys. Its GST on your commission. Do you trade that big to be this concerned?

 

[moolala]

Seriously guys. Its GST on your commission. Do you trade that big to be this concerned?

Yes, if u are scalping, every single cents add up

Buy and hold is for ppl who are long term investing

Any fellow traders who scalp? Pls id urself