“One of the craziest things” about being a student in a local university is that she has already completed six internships, and she has not graduated

[popdod]

she chose it.....nobody forced her....

Hannor hannor
Ownself make decisions
Ownself accept consequences

 

[Milodrink]

Wah, siao one leh six internships and haven’t even graduate yet! Local uni students really power, like CV speedrun sia. Study already stress, still must chiong intern non-stop. But bo bian, job market competitive mah. No experience, later kena ghosted after grad.

Internship only benefit those cheapo companies the most.

U all know y and how lah.

 

[mummynew]

It’s not no hobbies but sinkie parents keep drilling into kids to take jobs that earn money. How many learn medicine or even AI because they love it and not because it’s the in thing that brings in money?

Then when the fad dies, these people can’t find jobs and a new fad arises. But the new fad can be something that was looked down upon just a few years back so it could be the FT or the cannot make it so go unpopular courses who get the job.

*my two kids literally got frightened by the 'phenomenon' that both don't want to have kids. My kid's friend not even pregnant oredi has a 'target' preschool in mind.

 

[neutralph]

Like, doesn't feel very healthy.

If she is doing it because she genuinely enjoys it, good for her.

But if she is doing it for the sake of doing it (to outcompete her peers)...ugh.

Doesn't matter she enjoy it or not. Her health definitely is not enjoying it.

The trap in life is the advice "successful" ppl gave. Because no one will admit luck, personalities, and even family upbringing plays a big part in their success. Problem is you are not them.

All the cliche terms like work smart not hard, don't hesitate or masturbate, take calculated risk, do your homework, yada.

 

[focus1974]

It seems like it.. some employers feedback the same.. not sure why

coz we can tune to the accent of the foreigners and they feel like there's no language friction.
you know, quite a lot of AMDKs are tuned to their own frequency and they cannot code switch like us one.
one you speak too fast or no rythm or accent not like theirs, a lot of time, they are trying to figure out what you are trying to say ... so it becomes a little fustrating for them .. or too mentally exhausting.
also, the way uni operates there last time is mainly on presentations and case studies ..
not so much theorectical. that one is you ownself study at home. go lecture usually is discussion, no lecture.
so most times, you see groups presentation and then discussion.

 

[Whimsica]

Hanged around 2-4 weeks in the business of (1) laopeh, (2) laopeh's friend, (3) laopeh's brother, (4) boyfriend's laopeh, (5) boyfriend laopeh's friend, and (6) amdk met in bar = 6 internships

 

[popdod]

Weird, how come no bbfa suggested that she can open OF account or what?
All of you repent already ah.

nooo. Coz no one interested to see her.
20% discount also no one subscribe.

 

[speedsonic]

My kid chatted with a UK professor who is teaching in one of local unis.

She is awed with the students here and pities them for not spending their youthful years as youths. Her students will bug her for next term's topics etc to read during the school holidays. When having field work, these students want the daily schedule in details and will complain if details were not given as they don't like not being able to prepare before hand.

Her question to my kid was "Sporean youngsters don't have hobbies?"

she's right, you know. most of these things will not even be impt a few years later even if you think so now; your youth you'll not be able to turn back again.

It’s not no hobbies but sinkie parents keep drilling into kids to take jobs that earn money.

Then when the fad dies, these people can’t find jobs and a new fad arises. But the new fad can be something that was looked down upon just a few years back so it could be the FT or the cannot make it so go unpopular courses who get the job.

like compsci; make sure choose the course - is something you enjoy and true want; not what the govt ship; since their kpi change again next yr or worse invt loss making.

 

[compro_1975]

1internship to pass exam nia, she nurse meh

 

[GoneNuts]

Erh she dont look 23 yrs old....

Muz b 6 internship too tiring for her.

 

[mel1888]

go study in australia.. and get a degree there and then find jobs there.

then come back here to work ..
i think these overseas students will be more valuable to employers than local grads.

agree. Even u jus get a pass overseas degree, local employees here think its more satki. Whether can work anot is another matter.

 

[charleslee1989]

In my uni days, I only go for 2 nia lol....

 

[WarMage87]

The core tension revealed in this forum thread is a clash between two fundamentally different games being played in the Singaporean early-career market: the "Credentialing Arms Race" versus the "Human Capital Development" game. The student with six internships is optimising for the former—a finite game of signalling and resume-building—while many commenters are evaluating her through the lens of the latter, an infinite game focused on genuine skill acquisition and long-term well-being. This divergence highlights a systemic inefficiency where the proxies for competence (internships) may have become detached from the actual substance of competence, creating a high-burnout, negative-sum environment for participants.

This analysis is based on the provided text and general knowledge of Singapore's competitive socio-economic landscape. The observed dynamics are consistent with trends in hyper-competitive labour markets globally.

Confidence: 90%

---

Table of Contents​

1. Deconstructing the 'Games': An Analysis of the Strategic Landscape
   • 1.1. Game A: The Credentialing Arms Race (Finite Game)
     . 1.2. Game B: Human Capital Development (Infinite Game)
   • 1.3. Game C: The Signalling Arbitrage Game
2. Mapping the Players: A Spectrum of Perspectives
   • 2.1. The "Kiasu" Strategist (e.g., the student, 83sarahtan)
   • 2.2. The Sceptical Veteran (e.g., WarMage87, neutralph)
   • 2.3. The Cultural Critic (e.g., mummynew, Philipkee)
   • 2.4. The Pragmatic Cynic (e.g., Milodrink, Aunt Dino)
3. Strategic Implications & Your Position

1. Deconstructing the 'Games': An Analysis of the Strategic Landscape​

The forum discussion is not about a single issue but about the collision of several competing "games," each with its own rules, players, and victory conditions.

1.1. Game A: The Credentialing Arms Race (Finite Game)​

• Objective: To assemble the most impressive possible resume to win the "first job" competition. This is a finite game where the goal is to be selected from a large pool of candidates.
• Core Logic: In a market saturated with high academic achievers, extracurriculars and, most potently, internships become the key differentiators. The quantity of internships is used as a proxy for experience, ambition, and diligence.
• Player Tactics:
  • CV Speedrunning: Maximising the number of brand-name companies on a resume, as noted by user 83sarahtan.
  • LOA (Leave of Absence): Delaying graduation to accumulate more credentials, a behaviour identified by rodimus_prime. This is a rational move if the perceived value of an additional internship outweighs the cost of a delayed career start.
  • Signalling: The primary output is not necessarily skill, but a costly signal to employers that one is a desirable, hardworking candidate.
• Winning: Securing a prestigious and high-paying graduate job. The game ends upon employment.

1.2. Game B: Human Capital Development (Infinite Game)​

• Objective: To play the long game of building genuine skills, fostering well-being, and developing a sustainable and fulfilling career. This is an infinite game where the goal is to keep playing effectively.
• Core Logic: True value comes from deep skill acquisition, creativity, and personal resilience, not from a collection of superficial experiences. The focus is on the quality and depth of learning, not the quantity of logos.
• Player Tactics:
  • Deep Work: Favouring one or two meaningful internships where real skills are developed.
  • Personal Growth: Having hobbies, exploring interests, and avoiding burnout to maintain long-term effectiveness, as highlighted by the UK professor's anecdote (mummynew).
  • Intrinsic Motivation: Choosing paths based on genuine interest rather than chasing fads, a point raised by Philipkee.
• Winning: There is no "win" condition, only continuing to play successfully with a sense of purpose, adaptability, and well-being.

1.3. Game C: The Signalling Arbitrage Game​

• Objective: To exploit the inefficiencies of Game A. This game is played by employers and, to some extent, experienced observers.
• Core Logic: Employers, particularly "cheapo companies" as Milodrink points out, can extract significant value from the hyper-competitive environment by offering low-paid or unpaid internships to highly motivated students. The students provide labour in exchange for a credential, creating an arbitrage opportunity for the company.
• Winning: For companies, it's maximising output at minimal cost.

2. Mapping the Players: A Spectrum of Perspectives​

The commenters represent different archetypes with distinct "maps" of this strategic landscape.

• The "Kiasu" Strategist (e.g., the student, 83sarahtan): Sees Game A as the only game that matters. Their map is dominated by competition and the fear of being left behind ("No experience, later kena ghosted after grad"). Their actions are perfectly rational within this map, even if they lead to burnout.
• The Sceptical Veteran (e.g., WarMage87, neutralph): This is your position. This map, informed by experience, questions the fundamental premise of Game A. It distinguishes between genuine enjoyment/learning and compulsive resume-padding ("doing it for the sake of doing it"). It acknowledges that external markers of success often ignore critical variables like luck and personality (neutralph), suggesting a more nuanced view of Game B.
• The Cultural Critic (e.g., mummynew, Philipkee): This map zooms out to diagnose the system itself. It identifies the root causes of the "arms race" in the Singaporean education system, parental pressure, and a societal focus on extrinsic monetary goals over intrinsic passion. They pity the players of Game A for the opportunities for personal development they are sacrificing.
• The Pragmatic Cynic (e.g., Milodrink, Aunt Dino): This map focuses on the power dynamics and negative externalities. They see the internship "rat race" as a system that primarily benefits employers (Milodrink) and "spoils the market for everyone" (Aunt Dino) by creating an unsustainable escalating standard of competition.

3. Strategic Implications & Your Position​

Your comment, "Like, doesn't feel very healthy. If she is doing it because she genuinely enjoys it, good for her. But if she is doing it for the sake of doing it (to outcompete her peers)...ugh," correctly identifies the core strategic question for any participant: What game are you really playing, and why?

• The Ruin Pathway: The primary risk for the student playing Game A is burnout. By optimising solely for credentials, she risks entering the workforce with depleted psychological resources, potentially leading to a catastrophic "failure of success" where she wins the first job but is too exhausted to play the long game of a career. This is a non-ergodic risk to her sanity and long-term professional viability.
• The Strategic Dilemma: The tragedy of the situation is that the student's strategy may be necessary to win Game A, even if it is detrimental to her success in Game B. The market's use of internships as a primary filter forces rational actors to participate in the arms race, even if they recognise its flaws.
• Your Position's Insight: Your comment astutely separates intent from action. It introduces the possibility of a "third choice" map where the student might be genuinely passionate and thriving (playing Game B through the structure of Game A). However, it correctly assesses the higher probability that this is a compulsive act driven by the hyper-competitive logic of Game A. This is a crucial distinction between a potentially healthy, albeit intense, pursuit and a self-destructive one.

The entire thread serves as a powerful case study in the divergence of maps. While the student is likely executing a flawless strategy within her map (Game A), the collective wisdom of the forum suggests her map may be pointing her toward a Pyrrhic victory.

---

PS​

The most critical insight from this exchange is that when a system's proxies for success (e.g., number of internships) become decoupled from actual success (e.g., sustainable competence and well-being), it forces rational individuals into negative-sum games. The student is not irrational; she is responding to the perceived rules. The strategic failure is not at the individual level, but at the systemic level, which has created a "game" where the optimal short-term strategy may be ruinous in the long term.

Footnotes​

1. Kiasu: A Singaporean colloquialism referring to a "fear of losing out," often driving highly competitive behaviour.
2. Pyrrhic victory: A victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat.

Optional Enhancement​

To further deconstruct this, we could apply the "Systems Architect vs. Software Engineer" framework. The student is acting as a "Software Engineer," trying to debug her own competitiveness within the existing system. A "Systems Architect" approach would involve questioning the system itself and finding ways to signal value outside the conventional "internship count" metric, thereby creating a more robust, less fragile career foundation. Would you like to explore what strategies a "Systems Architect" might employ in this scenario?

---

Date and Time: 15 June 2025, 01:21 AM (SGT, UTC+8)

 

[WarMage87]

The Game Theory Optimal (GTO) play is not to win the "Credentialing Arms Race" by collecting the most internships, but to strategically withdraw from that specific competition and play a different, more defensible game. The GTO is to build and signal a "spiky" profile of deep, verifiable competence in a specific niche, using a Barbell Strategy to manage risk and maximise opportunity. This approach consciously rejects the flawed proxy of quantity and instead focuses on the high-value signal of quality and depth, making one's candidacy legible to high-quality employers while avoiding the non-ergodic risk of burnout.

This strategy is designed to be the most robust path to long-term success, prioritising survival (mental health, genuine skill acquisition) before optimising for the short-term win of a first job.

Confidence: 95%

---

Table of Contents​

1. Redefining the Objective: From "Winning the Race" to "Building a Fortress"
2. The GTO Play: The Barbell Strategy for Career Development
   • 2.1. The Citadel (90%): Forging Deep, Verifiable Competence
   • 2.2. The Scouts (10%): Low-Cost, High-Impact Exploration
3. Executing the Barbell: A Three-Lever Action Plan
   • 3.1. Lever 1: Depth Over Breadth — Engineer a "Spike"
   • 3.2. Lever 2: Narrative Over List — "Hack" the Signalling Game
   • 3.3. Lever 3: Network Over Credentials — Cultivate Advocates
4. Why This Strategy is GTO-Survival

1. Redefining the Objective: From "Winning the Race" to "Building a Fortress"​

The fundamental error is accepting the premise that the goal is to have the longest list of internships. This is a fragile, finite game that leads to ruin through burnout and superficial learning.

The GTO objective is to build an antifragile career foundation. This means your primary goal is to develop a core set of skills so deep and verifiable that they act as a "fortress" against market volatility and competition. You are no longer trying to out-run the horde; you are making yourself immune to it by operating in a different category of value.

2. The GTO Play: The Barbell Strategy for Career Development​

This strategy, inspired by Nassim Taleb's framework for navigating uncertainty, is the most robust way to structure your efforts. It involves allocating your finite resources (time, energy) between two extreme ends, avoiding the risky, mediocre middle.

2.1. The Citadel (90%): Forging Deep, Verifiable Competence​

This is the vast majority of your effort, focused on safety, stability, and building your fortress. It consists of:

• One, or at most two, deep-dive internships. These are not just three-month stints. They are chosen with extreme prejudice based on the following criteria:
  • Project Ownership: Will you own a specific, meaningful project from start to finish? Can you point to something tangible you built, shipped, or measurably improved?
  • Mentorship: Is there a specific senior person who is incentivised to teach you?
  • Conversion Potential: Is there a realistic pathway from this internship to a full-time offer? High-quality companies use internships as an extended interview.
• A Demonstrable Capstone Project: This could be a final year project, a personal project, or a significant contribution to an open-source programme. It must be something you can publicly showcase and discuss in depth, proving your ability to create value independently.

The goal of the Citadel is to create an undeniable "spike" of competence. When an employer asks what you did, your answer isn't a list of six companies; it's a 10-minute masterclass on the single project you owned and delivered.

2.2. The Scouts (10%): Low-Cost, High-Impact Exploration​

This is your allocation to high-upside, low-risk experimentation. This is where you gain from volatility and discovery. Instead of more "internships," these are:

• Hackathons & Competitions: A 48-hour hackathon provides more verifiable signalling of passion and skill than a three-month coffee-making internship.
• Targeted Skill Sprints: A two-week, self-directed project to learn a new, in-demand technology (e.g., a specific AI library, a new cloud platform).
• Informational Interviews: Systematically reaching out to professionals in fields that interest you. The goal is information and network, not a job.
• Writing & Content Creation: Starting a blog or a small newsletter about what you are learning. This signals passion, communication skills, and clarity of thought more effectively than another line-item on a CV.

These "Scout" activities have limited downside (a wasted weekend) but massive potential upside (meeting a co-founder, discovering a passion, creating a piece of content that goes viral in a niche community).

3. Executing the Barbell: A Three-Lever Action Plan​

3.1. Lever 1: Depth Over Breadth — Engineer a "Spike"​

Do not be a generalist. The market has a surplus of generalists. Your Citadel work should make you a specialist at the junior level. Choose one domain (e.g., backend development in Python, financial modelling for SaaS companies, UX research for mobile apps) and go deep. Become the most knowledgeable student at your university on that one specific thing.

3.2. Lever 2: Narrative Over List — "Hack" the Signalling Game​

Your resume and interview performance must tell a coherent story.

• The Losing Narrative (The Collector): "I did six internships at A, B, C, D, E, and F." (Implies superficiality and an inability to commit).
• The GTO Narrative (The Specialist): "I dedicated my primary effort to a deep-dive internship at Company A, where I owned the X project and delivered Y results. I supplemented this with targeted explorations in related technologies through a hackathon and a personal project, which confirmed my passion for this field."

This narrative demonstrates strategic thinking, passion, and genuine competence. It reframes your "Scout" activities not as random CV-padding but as deliberate, confirmatory steps.

3.3. Lever 3: Network Over Credentials — Cultivate Advocates​

The ultimate goal of your Citadel internship is not just a line on a resume, but an advocate in the industry. A single, enthusiastic manager who will vouch for your work is infinitely more valuable than five other internships where no one remembers your name. Focus on building a real relationship with your manager and team. A warm referral bypasses the entire resume-screening game.

4. Why This Strategy is GTO-Survival​

• It Avoids Ruin (Ergodicity): The primary risk in the "arms race" is burnout and mental collapse. The Barbell Strategy conserves your most critical resource—your sanity—by focusing your energy on high-value activities and rejecting the high-cost, low-return grind of credential collection.
• It Is Antifragile: The Citadel provides a robust foundation, while the Scouts allow you to gain from randomness and new information. If a new technology emerges, your "Scout" allocation allows you to explore it without abandoning your core.
• It Sends a Superior Signal: In a sea of candidates all shouting "I did six internships!", your quiet, confident demonstration of "I built this one thing, and I can explain it to you in excruciating detail" is a signal of true competence that high-quality employers are desperate to find. It moves you from the noisy, hyper-competitive market to a quieter one with less competition for real talent.

This strategy requires discipline and the courage to reject the social pressure to conform. But it is the only path that ensures you not only get the first job but also have the skills, energy, and reputation to build a successful, long-term career.

---

PS​

The critical shift is from being a player trying to collect the most stamps in a flawed passport, to becoming the architect of your own, highly valuable, and defensible portfolio of skills. You are not just building a resume; you are building an asset. This is how you win by refusing to play their game.

Footnotes​

1. Barbell Strategy: A concept popularised by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. It involves a dual strategy of investing the vast majority (e.g., 90%) of resources in extremely safe assets while investing a small minority (e.g., 10%) in extremely speculative bets. This avoids the "middle" of medium-risk investments and creates a profile that is robust to negative shocks while retaining exposure to massive positive ones.
2. Antifragile: A property of systems that increase in capability, resilience, or robustness as a result of stressors, shocks, volatility, noise, mistakes, faults, attacks, or failures.

Optional Enhancement​

To make this strategy operational, the first step is to define the criteria for a "Citadel" internship versus a "Scout" activity for your specific field. We could collaboratively build a "Citadel Internship Scorecard" that helps you objectively evaluate and filter opportunities, ensuring you invest your primary effort in a role with the highest potential for deep learning and advocacy.

---

Date and Time: 15 June 2025, 01:28 AM (SGT, UTC+8)

 

[stingray1211]

interns do what first ?

I can say I work in Google too .. clean toilet..

interns , most people don't even let them touch important work..


Read HWZ Forum Rules!

 

[white_prince]

I got to know a guy, who is still studying at 28-29. He did it on a purpose because he didnt want to go out to work but good thing for him is that he is born with a silver spoon.

 

[win_man]

she keeps getting termination? if not why need to repeat so many times?

 

[mirukuboi]

One of the craziest thing is that I graduated without needing to do any internship

 

[messidona]

I got to know a guy, who is still studying at 28-29. He did it on a purpose because he didnt want to go out to work but good thing for him is that he is born with a silver spoon.

studying at 28-29 quite common in amdk countries cause theey yolo or change career

only sinkies think it is weird cause they follow 10 years series template on how to live their lives

must graduate by 25 yo, must buy bto and get married by 30 yo, must earn $xxx by 35yo?

 

[messidona]

One of the craziest thing is that I graduated without needing to do any internship

tiagong now internship is compulsory