Post 10Gbps internet -- 25Gbps or higher

[Apparatus]

For those who want to prepare for 25G take note that there are far and few pure 25G switches with few ports. Some exist but have 20 ports or more so not suitable for most home users.

The only way to move beyond 10G is to get 25/40G, 40/100G, 10/25/40G, 100G etc switches. Use 25G breakout cables with 100G switches. Use 10/40G converter to step down from 40G to 10G.

There are available PCIe NIC cards with 25G and ethernet adapters with 25G as well for PC/laptop use. Also, look for devices with 2x10G ports which allow LAN aggregation of up to 20G in a 25G setup. Optical transceivers with dual rate like 10/25G is good for future upgrading from the now 10G

 

[xiaofan]

To me, nowadays local bandwidth is as good as unlimited. Don't need to cap if it's within own infra especially nowadays switches are line rate at 10g, 100g and even 400g

Hmm, then why Starhub is struggling with Starhub 10Gbps customers carrying out SpeedTest using its own SpeedTest server?

SIMBA is even worse based on the reports in SIMBA thread -- users can not even connect to SIMBA's own SpeedTest server and finish the test properly, or with pretty slow speed.

 

[Mach3.2]

Hmm, then why Starhub is struggling with Starhub 10Gbps customers carrying out SpeedTest using its own SpeedTest server?

their speedtest server is probably only uplinked at 10GbE only

or not enough CPU allocated to handle all the speedtests

boils down to $$$$

users can not even connect to SIMBA's own SpeedTest server and finish the test properly, or with pretty slow speed

This one legit skill issue on Simba's end

 

[seowbin]

This one legit skill issue on Simba's end

I can do near 10g (my sgix port speed) with them leh. Tested this morning using the server number

If that's the case, means their own internal network is .....

 

[seowbin]

Hmm, then why Starhub is struggling with Starhub 10Gbps customers carrying out SpeedTest using its own SpeedTest server?

SIMBA is even worse based on the reports in SIMBA thread -- users can not even connect to SIMBA's own SpeedTest server and finish the test properly, or with pretty slow speed.

Technology is not the limitation is this case. Nowadays less than 50k usd can do 400g liao for internal backbone via dark fiber. Multiple of 400g should be slightly more nia.

It's .... Something else

 

[flyingcookies]

For those who wants to prepare for 25G take note that there are far and few pure 25G switches with few ports. Some exist but have 20 ports or more so not suitable for most home users.

The only way to move beyond 10G is to get 25/40G, 40/100G, 10/25/40G, 100G etc switches. Use 25G breakout cables with 100G switches. Use 10/40G converter to step down from 40G to 10G.

There are available PCIe NIC cards with 25G and ethernet adapters with 25G as well for PC/laptop use. Also, look for devices with 2x10G ports which allow LAN aggregation of up to 20G in a 25G setup. Optical transceivers with dual rate like 10/25G is good for future upgrading from the now 10G

I think that for normal consumers they would not dare to deal with fiber themselves so FTTR will become a lot more popular post 10G. By that time 40G will probably be quite dead or at least unpopular, especially in the consumer space as those "less enterprise" brands like Unifi and Omada are focusing on 25G.

 

[xiaofan]

Technology is not the limitation is this case. Nowadays less than 50k usd can do 400g liao for internal backbone via dark fiber. Multiple of 400g should be slightly more nia.

It's .... Something else

This is what Starhub says, "According to our vendor, achieving a speed of 6-7Gbps is considered a good result. It is not always feasible to maintain a perfect speed of 7-8Gbps due to the shared 40G bandwidth among all users at the Optical Line Terminal (OLT) and the limited Broadband Network Gateway (BNG) router bandwidth."

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...eed-you-getting.7059103/page-3#post-153640501

Referring to the conversation on 28 July 2024 and your feedback to IMDA.

This is to address your concerns regarding your Ultraspeed internet service. Based on our network backend team's assessment and feedback from our vendor, we would like to provide our findings:

According to our vendor, achieving a speed of 6-7Gbps is considered a good result. It is not always feasible to maintain a perfect speed of 7-8Gbps due to the shared 40G bandwidth among all users at the Optical Line Terminal (OLT) and the limited Broadband Network Gateway (BNG) router bandwidth.

We have shared with you that the Ultraspeed service is already offered at a 50% discount. You may refer to the terms and conditions for a detailed understanding of the factors affecting speed tests.

Given that the current speed you are achieving is considered decent and satisfactory according to our vendor, we regret to inform you that we are unable to provide further assistance on this matter.

Meanwhile, we wish to assure you that we are continuously working to improve the Ultraspeed connection, similar to how 5G mobile network coverage has expanded and improved since its launch.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused by the lack of communication over the past four months. The delay was to ensure all necessary processes were properly followed. We appreciate your acknowledgment and agreement to close this case.

 

[Mach3.2]

then question is why are they still using 40GbE gear long after it's basically obsolete

It's .... Something else

 

[BBCWatcher]

Must understand how many will connect to France. It will not make sense to enhance connection to Europe countries. It will be better for websites to have local CDN la.

It's an example. These "big bragging numbers" are always about the edge cases, at least for a while. Like downloading the world's newest largest video game from France, from a French video game developer releasing a new beta version. Or some home-based researcher who wants to download a huge particle physics data set from the Large Hadron Collider at CERN in Switzerland.

....Although in the aggregate even home Internet users in Singapore need good and steadily improving international backbones practically everywhere, including to/from France and Switzerland. Because they may not individually send/receive lots of traffic to servers there, but as a whole population they do. Much like there are a certain number of airline seats per day between Singapore and France, and sometimes we may need more. Obviously at any particular moment most people here in Singapore aren't flying to France.

 

[xiaofan]

then question is why are they still using 40GbE gear long after it's basically obsolete

I do not think they use OLT with 40GbE uplink, more like quad SFP+ uplink.

Basically Starhub does not say their core network is the problem, but rather OLT and BNG (Broadband Network Gateway) are the problem. Sounds like a plausible explanation. Starhub is after all a large network service provider and their core network may be only second to Singtel among Singapore ISPs.

But if that is the case, then they should upgrade the OLT and BNG.

BNG:
https://forum.huawei.com/enterprise.../thread/700171314049990656-667213852955258880
https://www.edge-core.com/solution/aggregation-and-open-broadband-network-gateway-bng/

 

[flyingcookies]

I do not think they use OLT with 40GbE uplink, more like quad SFP+ uplink.

Basically Starhub does not say their core network is the problem, but rather OLT and BNG (Broadband Network Gateway) are the problem. Sounds like a plausible explanation. Starhub is after all a large network service provider and their core network may be only second to Singtel among Singapore ISPs.

But if that is the case, then they should upgrade the OLT and BNG.

BNG:
https://forum.huawei.com/enterprise.../thread/700171314049990656-667213852955258880
https://www.edge-core.com/solution/aggregation-and-open-broadband-network-gateway-bng/

Isn’t qsfp+ the only 40G standard? I doubt they will upgrade the OLT since it is probably new, it’s just weird that something so new would use qsfp+

 

[Henry Ng]

Isn’t qsfp+ the only 40G standard? I doubt they will upgrade the OLT since it is probably new, it’s just weird that something so new would use qsfp+

Soon they will upgrade the OLT to something solid one and very fast.

 

[xiaofan]

Isn’t qsfp+ the only 40G standard? I doubt they will upgrade the OLT since it is probably new, it’s just weird that something so new would use qsfp+

OLT will usually have multiple uplinks. So when they say 40Gbps uplink, I tend to think it will be quad SFP+ uplink, and not only single QSFP+ uplink. This seems to be on the lower end side of XGS-PON OLT. Or maybe this is a mixed GPON/XGS-PON OLT.

Example from Ubiquiti with quad SFP28 uplink.
https://sg.store.ui.com/sg/en/products/uisp-fiber-olt-xgs

Example XGS-PON OLT from VSOL: quad 25G (SFP28) and dual 100G (QSFP28) uplink.
https://www.vsolcn.com/products/xgs-pon-olt

 

[dqwong]

I guess having a 25Gbit/s connection will make my 1080P 30fps 10Mbit/sec YouTube non-premium video stream look even better?
Would my 192Kbit/sec Spotify stream sound even clearer?

Maybe it would allow for more faster data collection from these mega corporations.

I guess audio/visual professionals and photographers dealing with 8K videos and uncompressed photos would love to have these improvements in bandwidth.

But I guess there might be only one useful thing for the average home family: Faster steam game downloads, especially for quadruple A titles that consumes massive amount of disk space.

 

[Henry Ng]

I think 25 Gbps plan is still very far away. It will be very expensive.

 

[xiaofan]

I think 25 Gbps plan is still very far away. It will be very expensive.

That depends on how you define "very expensive" and "very far away".
And it may be available in Singapore in 2028 or 4 years later.

Reference pricing
1) HKBN's 25Gbps plan is available now and below HKD1000 (about S$167) per month.
2) Init7 in Switzerland offers 25Gbps service at CHF64.75 (about S$100) per month and one time CHF222 (S$343) setup fee.
https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7/

Fiber7 Fiber-optic Internet
10/10 or 25/25 Gbit/sec (download/upload)
Incl. TV7
Fixed IPv4 addresses available (acitvate nerd mode for further information)
Setup fee*: one-time CHF 77 (10 Gbit/s) or CHF 222 (25 Gbit/s)
CHF 64.75/month with annual billing (CHF 777/year)

 

[Henry Ng]

That depends on how you define "very expensive" and "very far away".
And it may be available in Singapore in 2028 or 4 years later.

Reference pricing
1) HKBN's 25Gbps plan is available now and below HKD1000 (about S$167) per month.
2) Init7 in Switzerland offers 25Gbps service at CHF64.75 (about S$100) per month and one time CHF222 (S$343) setup fee.
https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7/

Fiber7 Fiber-optic Internet
10/10 or 25/25 Gbit/sec (download/upload)
Incl. TV7
Fixed IPv4 addresses available (acitvate nerd mode for further information)
Setup fee*: one-time CHF 77 (10 Gbit/s) or CHF 222 (25 Gbit/s)
CHF 64.75/month with annual billing (CHF 777/year)

If like that then backend equipment will need to be upgraded again?

 

[Henry Ng]

Honestly, just implementing 10G already make ISP face green green and there is no real internet world benefits of having 25 Gbps internet and Singaporean are smart so not easy to get home user to sign up for it. Some more price and cost are very sensitive issue to everyone so I do not think so fast got 25 Gbps in Singapore. 10 Gbps is good enough.

 

[flyingcookies]

Honestly, just implementing 10G already make ISP face green green and there is no real internet world benefits of having 25 Gbps internet and Singaporean are smart so not easy to get home user to sign up for it. Some more price and cost are very sensitive issue to everyone so I do not think so fast got 25 Gbps in Singapore. 10 Gbps is good enough.

This kind of complacency and not wanting to adopt new technology, thinking that what they have is good enough is what led to Australia having one of the slowest internet speeds in the world.

 

[xiaofan]

If like that then backend equipment will need to be upgraded again?

Not much initially, just like the 10Gbps plans launched in 2016, since 20Gbps/25Gbps (or even 50Gbps plan a bit later than 25Gbps) will be a niche plan when they are launched. The initial price may be at double monthly price compare to ST/SH's 10Gbps plan, with extra one time charge for equipment.

It takes ISPs about 8 years for 10Gbps to become readily available to the users. I think 25Gbps adoption will be faster. So if 25Gbps plan becomes available in 2028, it may become the norm later, say in 2034 (but I believe 50Gbps will also be the norm in 2034). 10Gbps will be the base plan in 2034.

2021/2022
500Mbps (base), 1Gbps (mainstream), 2Gbps (high end), 10Gbps (niche offerings)

Current market in 2024
1Gbps/2Gbps/2.5Gbps/3Gbps plan (base and mainstream plans), 5Gbps and 10Gbps plan (high end)

My prediction In 2028
2.5Gbps/3Gbps plan (base plans), 5Gbps and 10Gbps plan (mainstream plans), 25Gbps (niche offerings)

My prediction in 2034:
10Gbps plan (base plan), 25Gbps plan and 50Gbps plan (main stream), 100Gbps plan (niche offerings)