Problems with Genneva Payout

[Mecisteus]

new companies will appear. gold bull is back.

 

[The voice]

Sad to say there's still some hope in helping the Genneva customers but for Genneva agents it will be extremely difficult. In the impending legal proceedings to come against Genneva by its customers, the agents might be deemed as providing misleading information to their customers.

Our members have all agreed that partial responsibility falls on the agents and if Genneva refuses to pay or have no money to pay, efforts might be taken against their agents.

Currently, some agents even gave excuses or painted a rosy picture of Genneva and its situation to their customers even after so many complaint cases were highloghted in the recent newspaper article. Even worse, Genneva agents are still trying to get new customers to buy!

We strongly urge Genneva agents not to continue selling to new customers, it will only make things worse for them.

(Without prejudice)
Hi bullion owners, that's what we really are I suppose. We are not gold investors to be precise. As Genneva is a private limited company with SG$500,000 pay up capital with a licence to sell precious metal without precious stones. Like any goldsmith shop like Poh Heng and Tian Poh? The only difference is that they promise to pay a 2% return every month.
Genneva is never an investing company, as all investing companies in Singapore have to meet certain criteria laid down by MAS and binded by rules and regulations set by MAS. This is the reason why MAS cannot step in as some of you might have asked. MAS can only list them as RED.
Now my answer to your question, "why are these agents still selling?" As from July, all new sales' commission are paid out to the agent once the deal is closed. (No delay in commission payment). From my knowledge, most of these agents are new. The company pay these new agents promptly so that to inspire them to get more sales.
I might have some useful information that could be useful for the group meeting. (group leader kindly PM me if you are keen to have a more detailed discussion with me. and only the group leader please.)

 

[jackong78]

Once Bitten, Twice shy, Trice avoid, 4gotten might get bitten till 5finally we learn.

 

[The voice]

Before we point our finger, make sure our hands are clean. Cursing and swearing does not make us any better from them, in fact we are making them our peers.

 

[gennevacomplaingroup]

(Without prejudice)
Hi bullion owners, that's what we really are I suppose. We are not gold investors to be precise. As Genneva is a private limited company with SG$500,000 pay up capital with a licence to sell precious metal without precious stones. Like any goldsmith shop like Poh Heng and Tian Poh? The only difference is that they promise to pay a 2% return every month.
Genneva is never an investing company, as all investing companies in Singapore have to meet certain criteria laid down by MAS and binded by rules and regulations set by MAS. This is the reason why MAS cannot step in as some of you might have asked. MAS can only list them as RED.
Now my answer to your question, "why are these agents still selling?" As from July, all new sales' commission are paid out to the agent once the deal is closed. (No delay in commission payment). From my knowledge, most of these agents are new. The company pay these new agents promptly so that to inspire them to get more sales.
I might have some useful information that could be useful for the group meeting. (group leader kindly PM me if you are keen to have a more detailed discussion with me. and only the group leader please.)

On average Genneva agents are owed up to 6 months of overdue commissions. From July onwards, commission is ONLY paid if any agent gets new sales. As such, agents who wants to get some kind of pay are forced to find new customers. You should know that of all people since you are trying to talk to group leaders even. Why did you omit this important piece of information?

 

[transform]

Very Funny

Before the Delayed payout I ever browse thru Genneva Webpage (SIngapore, Malaysia and Philippine) and saw the Founder's photo on it. But now THEY are all GONE.

 

[EastSider]

apart from this , there is one company that the employers stay in MBS for one whole month drive big mercz , anyone know what company is that?

 

[gennevacomplaingroup]

Before the Delayed payout I ever browse thru Genneva Webpage (SIngapore, Malaysia and Philippine) and saw the Founder's photo on it. But now THEY are all GONE.

Good observation my friend....luckily we have backups!!! LOL!

 

[The voice]

On average Genneva agents are owed up to 6 months of overdue commissions. From July onwards, commission is ONLY paid if any agent gets new sales. As such, agents who wants to get some kind of pay are forced to find new customers. You should know that of all people since you are trying to talk to group leaders even. Why did you omit this important piece of information?

I believe I did mention that most of the agents running the sales are new. I did not say all of them. I am not trying to hide anything. I just want to help and not getting into a head-on argument. If you think I am not qualified to talk to or have a discussion with your leader, I am fine with it. Anyway I have got nothing to loose.

 

[Lover_Handphone]

They can run but they cannot hide !

Before the Delayed payout I ever browse thru Genneva Webpage (SIngapore, Malaysia and Philippine) and saw the Founder's photo on it. But now THEY are all GONE.

Transform,

Here are the details for the directors of GM My and GM Sg, and do a google you can get their photos:

Listed as Founders in Genneva Singapore website are:
1) Sunny Yee Yuen Seng (under trial in Malaysia is MARCUS Yee Yuen Seng)
2) Ng Poh Weng
3) William Chin Wai Leong

BACKGROUND OF GENNEVA MALAYSIA:
1) Vice Chairman Tuan Haji Ahmad Khairuddin Bin Illias
Founders:
• Dato’ Sunny Yee – 30 years gold mining experience
• Dato’ Ng Poh Weng – Ex Poh Kong. co‐founder
• Dato’ William Chin – Certified Accountant, Chief Executive Officer

====================================
Their criminal charges in My:

14 Oktober 2010
=============
•Ng Poh Weng, Marcus Yee Yuen Seng, Liew Chee Wah and Chin Wai Leong, the directors of Genneva Sdn. Bhd. were charged at Kuala Lumpur Sessions Court for an offence under Section 4(1) of the Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act 2001 (AMLATFA).

16 March 2011
===========
•The company and the directors of Genneva Sdn.Bhd., Chin Wai Leong, Ng Poh Weng and Marcus Yee Yuen Seng were charged at Kuala Lumpur Sessions Court for an offence under Section 25(1) of the Banking and Financial Institutions Act (BAFIA) 1989.

18 March 2011
===========
•Liew Chee Wah, the director of Genneva Sdn.Bhd. was charged at Kuala Lumpur Sessions Court for an offence under Section 25(1) of the Banking and Financial Institutions Act (BAFIA) 1989.
===================================

Sunny Yee, Ng Poh Weng, and Chin Wai Leong are present directors of Genneva Sg and My and are facing the mentioned criminal charges.

Liew Chee Wah is no longer with Genneva.

 

[martinlee1688]

Lee Soon Teck is the present director of both The Discovery Group as well as The Gold Guarantee (TGG

Lee Soon Teck is the present director of both The Discovery Group as well as The Gold Guarantee (TGG) and Asia Pacific Bullion (APB)

He tried to entice people stuck with useless timeshare packages at Discovery Group to cross over to his other company) and invest in The Gold Guarantee (TGG) Gold and Asia Pacific Bullion (APB) instead.

Would you still want to buy Gold from The Gold Guarantee (TGG) and Asia Pacific Bullion (APB) ?

The discovery Group Pte Ltd is on consumer alert list of Case (Consumers Association of Singapore).

This is the extract of CASE consumer alerts published recently on 7 June 2012:

======================================

Consumer Alerts
7 June 2012 NEW
Consumer Alerts – June 2012: CASE advisory on The Discovery Group Pte Ltd

From February 2012 till date, CASE received cases from at least 11 consumers with regards to the contracts they signed with The Discovery Group Pte Ltd. The said 11 consumers have asked CASE to help them cancel their contracts with The Discovery Group Pte Ltd. Considering that the Discovery Group Pte Ltd was incorporated in Singapore only in February 2012, this is an alarming trend that CASE would like to highlight to consumers.

According to what CASE understand from the affected consumers, they have existing timeshare contracts with another company and were told about one or more of the following*:

a. There is “corporate restructuring”
b. The Discovery Group Pte Ltd is now the parent company of the company whom they purchased the existing timeshare contract from
c. The Discovery Group Pte Ltd is taking over the existing contract / company whom they purchased the existing timeshare contract from
d. The Discovery Group Pte Ltd can help to waive off balance payment under the existing contract
e. The Discovery Group Pte Ltd can help to terminate the existing contract and recover monies / The Discovery Group Pte Ltd can recover monies under the previous contract
f. AND A new contract has to be signed and fees have to be paid to The Discovery Group Pte Ltd.
*Note: The list is not exhaustive.
Fees paid range from $200 to $7000.

CASE would like to remind consumers to exercise prudence especially when they are dealing with companies that claim to handle their existing timeshare contracts for them for a fee.

In addition, we urge consumers to take time to evaluate any company or business which initiated contact and offer attractive solutions to their problems. In particular, consumers should check how long the company or business has been in existence and their track record in settling consumers’ problems in the ways offered or described.

So far, CASE has not heard of any successful termination by timeshare-related companies. When in doubt, consumers should not sign any contract or agreement or make any payment. It would be best not to visit the company’s

 

[Lover_Handphone]

The directors of Genneva

Directors of Genneva

The photos of the 3 directors of Genneva.

 

[transform]

Directors of Genneva

The photos of the 3 directors of Genneva.

Before they were very proud to show their faces on their official webpage. And now they delete all ( packing up ? )

 

[Lover_Handphone]

Before they were very proud to show their faces on their official webpage. And now they delete all ( packing up ? )

I copied this from Uncle Martin's blog:

The 3 directors are definitely not planning for any AD&D (annual dinner & dance).

Instead they are planning for:
A – abrupt
D – ditching
& – and
D – disappearing act

 

[The voice]

Transform,

Here are the details for the directors of GM My and GM Sg, and do a google you can get their photos:

Listed as Founders in Genneva Singapore website are:
1) Sunny Yee Yuen Seng (under trial in Malaysia is MARCUS Yee Yuen Seng)
2) Ng Poh Weng
3) William Chin Wai Leong

BACKGROUND OF GENNEVA MALAYSIA:
1) Vice Chairman Tuan Haji Ahmad Khairuddin Bin Illias
Founders:
• Dato’ Sunny Yee – 30 years gold mining experience
• Dato’ Ng Poh Weng – Ex Poh Kong. co‐founder
• Dato’ William Chin – Certified Accountant, Chief Executive Officer

====================================
Their criminal charges in My:

14 Oktober 2010
=============
•Ng Poh Weng, Marcus Yee Yuen Seng, Liew Chee Wah and Chin Wai Leong, the directors of Genneva Sdn. Bhd. were charged at Kuala Lumpur Sessions Court for an offence under Section 4(1) of the Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act 2001 (AMLATFA).

16 March 2011
===========
•The company and the directors of Genneva Sdn.Bhd., Chin Wai Leong, Ng Poh Weng and Marcus Yee Yuen Seng were charged at Kuala Lumpur Sessions Court for an offence under Section 25(1) of the Banking and Financial Institutions Act (BAFIA) 1989.

18 March 2011
===========
•Liew Chee Wah, the director of Genneva Sdn.Bhd. was charged at Kuala Lumpur Sessions Court for an offence under Section 25(1) of the Banking and Financial Institutions Act (BAFIA) 1989.
===================================

Sunny Yee, Ng Poh Weng, and Chin Wai Leong are present directors of Genneva Sg and My and are facing the mentioned criminal charges.

Liew Chee Wah is no longer with Genneva.

Liew is in China, leaving 3 Malaysian directors' name in Genneva Singapore. looks like they are prepared and ready to take on court pursues.

 

[gennevacomplaingroup]

Liew is in China, leaving 3 Malaysian directors' name in Genneva Singapore. looks like they are prepared and ready to take on court pursues.

Very good....was afraid they wont be up to the challenge.....we really look forward to it.

 

[The voice]

Very good....was afraid they wont be up to the challenge.....we really look forward to it.

Just curious, what can you do to a SG$500,000 pay-up capital private limited company? At the most they loose the pay-up capital.
You can of course sue the directors, but look at the names in the board of directors. All of them are Malaysian Datoks. The only Singaporean director that you can put him behind bars no longer in the company.

 

[mtepl2012]

Singapore aims to be Asia's gold trading hub

SINGAPORE - Trade agency International Enterprise (IE) Singapore hopes to expand the country's share of the global precious metals market at least five-fold within 10 years and create an Asia-Pacific industry hub, its senior executives said yesterday.

'In Asia there really isn't a hub for the physical trading of gold. . . Our aspiration is really to be like London and Zurich, to serve not just Asia but the rest of the world as well,' said IE Singapore assistant chief executive Kathy Lai at a press briefing.


Singapore has about 2 per cent share of the global gold trading market in terms of tonnage, according to IE Singapore.

The agency wants to grow that share to 10 to 15 per cent in the next five to 10 years, IE Singapore director of trade services and policy Gina Lim said.

It aims to capitalise on growing demand for precious metals as global economic uncertainties spur interest in an alternative asset class and the desire to keep those assets close to home. Along the way, Singapore could benefit from 'good-quality jobs' in related industries and boosts to economic segments such as financial services and logistics, Ms Lai said.

Industry group World Gold Council said global demand for gold rose 0.4 per cent to 4,067.1 tonnes, worth about US$205.5 billion, in 2011, with investment demand, particularly from Asia, driving the growth.

Ms Lai's comments came as Singapore said it would exempt investment-grade precious metals from the 7 per cent Goods and Services Tax (GST) beginning in October 2012.

That move would bring tax treatment of investment-grade precious metals in line with other major markets, such as London, Zurich and Hong Kong. Investors, including retail traders, gold exchange-traded funds and private banking clients, will then be able to trade and store their assets in Singapore without having to incur additional tax.

Transactions now are typically done offshore, such as in Europe or within the confines of the Singapore Freeport free-trade zone, to avoid the GST charge.

'IE proposed that we should correct this anomaly,' Ms Lai said.

She said the GST exemption will 'open our door for the party', and getting people to come to the party will be the next step.

This won't be without its challenges.

Singapore's competitors, Dubai and Hong Kong, are already established centres for key Asian markets.

India, which accounts for just over half of the demand in Asia, does a large part of its trading through Dubai.

But 'few people see Dubai as a financial centre of the same stature as, say, Singapore and Hong Kong, and I think given its political context also it's not seen as a business environment that is completely secure for the long term,' Ms Lai said.

Hong Kong gets the bulk of China's trades, but its close ties with the mainland are also a source of concern.

'Many investors do view Hong Kong as part of China,' Ms Lai said. 'Policy changes are a little bit outside the kind of predictability that we have in Singapore, so it's not as 'neutral', so to speak, as Singapore.'

Industry players have generally welcomed Singapore's decision to scrap the GST levy.

Ng Cheng Thye, head of precious metals Asia for Standard Bank, said many clients have been trying to bring some of their gold assets back to Asia from Europe after the 2008 global financial crisis.

'Singapore is actually an ideal location' in the region because of its infrastructure and proximity, and the GST exemption clears a major hurdle for investors, he said.

He said that not having GST will also encourage refineries to set up shop in Singapore, which is key to the development of a viable hub.

'It's a very important piece of the puzzle,' he said.

However, Singapore does not have a gold refiner at the moment, and Ms Lai said there is no new refinery in the pipeline for Singapore to the best of her knowledge.

A key executive for a leading refinery company with plants in the region said his company was studying the viability of setting up in Singapore, but the business case was not obvious.

Refineries that already operate in the region may not have need for another plant in such close proximity, and Singapore's level of demand is still small at the moment, he said.

'In Singapore itself, we don't manufacture jewellery, we don't have goldmines and so on, so that's something we have to study,' the executive said.

 

[mtepl2012]

Singapore's golden goal!

Only about 2 per cent of the world's gold trade is carried out in Singapore, but an ambitious plan aims to lift that to at least 10 per cent by 2020.

Trade agency IE Singapore wants to bolster the country's claims as an Asian trading hub for precious metals by scrapping the goods and services tax (GST) on the import and supply of investment-grade gold.

The move was announced by Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam in last month's Budget and will take effect on October 1.

It will effectively make investment- grade gold bars and coins 7 per cent cheaper than before.

IE Singapore believes the step will entice a host of companies involved in precious metals trading to set up shop in Singapore or expand their existing activities here.

These include trading companies, refineries, bullion banks, branded providers of secure warehouses, custodian banks, gold mining players and dealers.

High-skilled jobs will likely follow in areas such as trading, finance, logistics and insurance.

"We give ourselves five to 10 years to build up a cluster that will command the notice of the world like our oil cluster," said IE Singapore's assistant chief executive Kathy Lai at a briefing yesterday.

IE Singapore promotes international trade and has previously championed dealing in commodities such as oil and agricultural products.

"I think we can say that we aspire to capture 10 to 15 per cent of the global gold trade in the next five to 10 years," added IE's group director for trade services and policy, Gina Lim.

About 70 per cent of the global demand for gold comes from Asia, and 13 per cent of that stems from Southeast Asia.

Traders and buyers of precious metals rely mainly on London and Zurich as hubs and a lot of Asians store their gold in Europe, Lai noted.

So if two Asians were to trade gold with each other, that gold would first have to be transported from Asia to London or Zurich to sit in a clearing house and then flown back to Asia again to its buyer, she explained.

Companies that mine gold in Australia and Asia also have to send all their raw gold to Europe to be refined and then have it shipped back to Asia, where most of the buyers are.

"We were told by the industry that transporting gold is expensive; you have to incur a lot of costs to ensure the security of its movement. So industry players told us that the Asia-Pacific region needs a hub, and should not rely on just Zurich and London," Lai said.

One of these players is Standard Bank, a South African bank with a branch here offering wholesale trading of commodities, including precious metals.

Its head of precious metals, Ng Cheng Thye, said that an increasing number of the bank's clients are asking if there are safe places in Asia where they can park their gold holdings without incurring tax.

"They have been buying physical gold that's parked in European banks, but now they are looking for a safe place in Asia as they feel European banks are at risk because of the debt crisis there."

Albert Cheng, regional managing director of the World Gold Council, said scrapping of the GST for investment-grade gold is a good first step towards rebuilding Singapore's gold trading industry.

The World Gold Council is a market development organisation for the global gold industry.

"Up to 20 years ago, gold was freely moved in and out of Singapore and we were a trading hub and distribution centre for gold," he noted.

But three things happened.

Gold prices dropped, which led to investors and banks losing interest.

Banks began offering newer financial products instead and gradually shrank their gold trading activities.

And then the GST was introduced, and gold trading all but ground to a halt.

"So we now need to rebuild the whole value chain from the ground up, and during IE's consultations with the industry we told them that there's a lot that needs to be done, but the first would be to remove GST."

 

[martinlee1688]

I went to The Gold Guarantee (TGG) seminar on Thursday night.

I went to The Gold Guarantee (TGG) seminar on Thursday night.

There were abt 60 in the audience, but how many of these were ‘planted’ by Lee Song Teck to act as interested buyers I can’t tell for sure.

Including Lee Song Teck there were abt 20 in the sales team. They are all very very young. Guys looked like “ah bengs” and seemed like they had just completed National Service and The Gold Guarantee (TGG) is their first employer.

Ladies looked like “ah lians”, and even younger looking than the guys. Must admit they are very pretty….drooling……….

When I arrived at the registration desk, there were no mention of seminar fees to be paid, everyone walked in freely without any payment. We were given a name tag, a plastic pen and a few pieces of writing paper.

There were no goodie bags handed out to anyone, not that I went there for the goodies. (these 2 points regarding seminar fees and goodie bags are of utmost importance to the Troll – with lots of salt).

There was a small refreshment area with coffee and tea but no food. Not that I went there for free food or drinks, but this point is again of utmost importance to the Troll.

It was basically a MLM recruitment drive by Lee Song Teck , enticing people to join The Gold Guarantee (TGG) as a /sales agent/sales leader/sales manager to sell gold for The Gold Guarantee (TGG) at 30% above spot rate to anyone to earn super high commissions which are compounded !! (not mentioned exactly how much during the seminar, will be told only to those who signed up), but one needs to pay a FEE to be a member of his team.

His model is that the marked up is higher at 30%. Lee Song Teck claims the 30% is used for “hedging”. But there is a buy back guarantee in black and white. Contract period is 30 days and buyers get the physical gold.

Lee Song Teck cited his impressive track records, press interviews, his charity work (made money donations to sponsor 10 kids, wow, for his wealth I thought at least 100), his so so sad childhood and teenage years and he showed photos of himself rubbing shoulders with prominent investment gurus and tycoons (but looks like “photoshopped” pictures badly done).

After all the cock and bull talk, the key point was revealed – The membership fees — S$2230.

No takers.

Then a discount was offered. Price dropped instantly to S$750. 5 persons went to sign up (not sure if these five were “actors”).
Very poor response, so a further S$250 was offered as a discount, provided if at least 1 kg of gold was sold within first 4 months.
How the S$2230 came abt?

1) Name cards – S$50
2) Access card (those you hang around the neck, with photo, smart chip) – $200
3) 1 yr esteemed email address — S$30
4) Competency test — S$250
5) 4 x training modules (to be a con-sultan) — S$800
6) INSTANT promotion to SALES MANAGER — S$900 (thus earning instant commissions from his existing sales agents numbering around 800)

Many people went off by then, including me.

I guess people are put off by the high price of gold, and hence to entice people, Lee Song Teck dangled a carrot, ie, be an agent first. The seminar was devised as a recruitment drive, instead of buying/selling gold. Lee Song Teck’s idea is to sell as much gold as possible, and it makes no difference to him whether they are sold by his agents, or directly sold to public.

It is a classic MLM scheme, another Sunshine Empire in the making.

Looking the response, the seminar was a failed mission by The Gold Guarantee (TGG). Thank God !