Proposal Ring - Part 2

[Draculav]

Yep like I said, lower demand allow the customers to bargain for a better price. I didn't say all IGI was good, mainly the ones from their headquarters in Antwerp, and the love and co series which I have viewed.

When choosing less consistant labs, you not only have the lab branch before looking at the specs. Many people think all EGL diamonds are trash, but this is not true. Those from EGL HK are infact very good. Unfortunately most of the EGL diamonds we encounter are from other branches which are indeed less strict, as Hong Kong and China consume most of the EGL HK stones. In fact some signature stones of retailers in hk are only graded by EGL HK. Where as their normal stones are GIA.

Disclaimer, the following is just my opinion :

In fact since it is accepted that GIA is stricter in color and clarity and AGS is stricter in Cut and Light performance, would that mean that Cartier stones focus on color and clarity and not cut ? What happens if the same stone is certified by AGS, is it now focusing on cut and not color and clarity ? In the end it is still the same stone. Color, clarity and cut you can see for yourself with your own eyes using loupes and scopes. Yet when people walk in to a branded shop, how many will ask to see those images. Practically non, why ? The reason is simple.

When you get a branded diamond, you are paying for... the brand. Thats why it is called branded. Despite all their patented design etc, if you get a private jeweler to replicate a design and its well replicated, no one will know the difference, but YOU will know its a replicate. Its one of those I know mine the real deal so i feel good kind of things. Given the high premium people pay for these branded products esp brands like Cartier, they could easily have certified it with both labs but they don't, cos to their target clients this certification is more or less just a formality.

I still stand by the fact that IGI is an inferior certificate. Just search on the internet, and there are many articles that have done studies to prove that IGI does have weaker grading than GIA.

Ok, assuming you say EGL cert is good and the EGL cert coming from different countries have different standards, like EGL HK is better EGL US. (There are many articles banging EGL certs too) Isn't this very confusing? how can this happen in the first place? Isn't EGL the brand of the certificate? It's like saying Tiffany diamond rings in HK are better quality than Tiffany diamond rings in the US. GIA has labs in US and HK too.. But you don't see anyone saying that GIA HK certs are better than GIA US certs. If it's the same company, why is there differing standards? If there exist differing standards, it also reflects badly on the cert's reputation.. it shows that they have no quality control over their labs where their own labs produces different results. Why can't they keep it consistant?

GIA/AGS are more recognized internationally for their stricter grading system and are used as benchmarks. In the future, if you need to resell your diamond, a GIA cert diamond would retain the value better than a IGI/EGL.

So why do these labs like IGI and EGL exist if they are a lower tier? The answer is simple. PROFITS.

"The reason for a grading lab to give softer grades is to get more business from diamond manufacturers, retailers or wholesalers who want to increase their profits by selling diamonds given higher grades at higher prices."

Extract taken from a study,
Prices of Diamonds Graded by 3 Different Laboratories | PriceScope

 

[EricMagnusLensherr]

I still stand by the fact that IGI is an inferior certificate. Just search on the internet, and there are many articles that have done studies to prove that IGI does have weaker grading than GIA.

Ok, assuming you say EGL cert is good and the EGL cert coming from different countries have different standards, like EGL HK is better EGL US. (There are many articles banging EGL certs too) Isn't this very confusing? how can this happen in the first place? Isn't EGL the brand of the certificate? It's like saying Tiffany diamond rings in HK are better quality than Tiffany diamond rings in the US. GIA has labs in US and HK too.. But you don't see anyone saying that GIA HK certs are better than GIA US certs. If it's the same company, why is there differing standards? If there exist differing standards, it also reflects badly on the cert's reputation.. it shows that they have no quality control over their labs where their own labs produces different results. Why can't they keep it consistent?

I agree with your statement. The issue is that they cannot keep it consistent. Why is it that IGI Antwerp can produce stricter grading ? It might boil down to the history of the place and its relationship with cutting as well as the demand of customers in that area, as well as the fact that it is the headquarters. Is it disturbing ? Maybe, if you don't know about it, but if you DO know, this is an opportunity to get something better for cheaper, due to the misconception that all IGI grading is the same.

Another reason they can't keep it consistent is cos it is graded by a human, even GIA is just MORE consistent, and does not guarantee a stone which is resubmitted will get the same grade, its is written in the disclaimer in the cert itself. One of the reason people go to AGS and GIA is a higher consistency.

Your analogy of Tiffany is not correct... The shops in different places sell the same item in different places, but chances are they are produced in the same place... Just like you buy a Toshiba or Fujitsu laptop you can pay an additional $1000 to get the exact same model but made in japan. If everything under a brand is the same and i offer you 2 cars, same brand same model, one made in Germany and one made in China, the china one $10.00 cheaper, which would you choose ? After all, according to you, same brand same quality.

Lastly, i never said EGL is good.... i only said those by the HK Lab is good, big difference. EGL probably has the largest inconsistancy between labs.

GIA/AGS are more recognized internationally for their stricter grading system and are used as benchmarks. In the future, if you need to resell your diamond, a GIA cert diamond would retain the value better than a IGI/EGL.

This is unfortunately true and if you intend to resell, your diamond with a GIA or AGS cert WILL retain value better, so i agree with you here. As to why it is lower price, it would be due to lower denmand, due to misinformation. I wonder why... just kidding. But its better for those of us in the know as we can find better stones for lower prices as long as you know what to look out for.

So why do these labs like IGI and EGL exist if they are a lower tier? The answer is simple. PROFITS.

"The reason for a grading lab to give softer grades is to get more business from diamond manufacturers, retailers or wholesalers who want to increase their profits by selling diamonds given higher grades at higher prices."

Extract taken from a study,
Prices of Diamonds Graded by 3 Different Laboratories | PriceScope

Yep, i have read this article and for most part agree with it given the context. You realize that pricescope is a FOR-profit site based in the US and that is the context and the labs they will send to right ? It specifically says there EGL-USA. Also, the article is from 2004... There was a more recent one posted some months back on the forums, let me see if i can find it as it would be a better reference.

I would also like to ask you, if you have with your own eyes, done a blind test between super ideals from different labs graded the same in terms of color and clarity ? Because what i speak of is not only from reading but also from experience. It might simply be coincidence that what i saw just happened to present the information to me this way. Unfortunately i no longer have access to the IGI stones or i would invite you to do a blind test.

If you wish to quote pricescope, here are some recent forum threads (1 from 2011, 1 from 2012, 1 from 2013) about IGI. Trade members hold IGI in pretty high regard, Also when referring to labs they usually refer to the place or branch as well, such as EGL-International. There are of course many others, but i think this should be enough. Yeah, i enjoy participating and reading pricescope forums and check there everyday as well. Good place to learn and pic up more, but you should take note of the limitations, culture and the context of the information provided as well, and not just take it blindly as information by non trade members tend to be a bit wonky sometimes.

Here's my return quote by one of the most respected trade members John Pollard. Also, seems EGL-Asia, which is the Hong Kong branch is out of China cos people nowadays prefer foreign certs. They instead franchise their name to someone else. Will try to check out these stones graded by a third party if i get the chance. And now, IGI HK has taken their place as the lab to go to for top notch cut quality grading

The NGTC, mentioned in the linked piece, has a kind of monopoly, since they are the national lab. As a result they issue around 70% of all grading reports in China. The majority are finished jewelry reports - not loose diamond. Since the Chinese government requires all jewelry sold to have lab certification this is a LOT of reports.

The GIA is in second place. Their reports often accompany manufactured diamonds coming into China and, since many consumers prefer foreign reports, they are widely known and accepted. They are limited however: Because GIA does not grade H&A they're also considered the "VG and Triple-EX" lab, not the lab for diamonds having the highest cut-quality.

IGI Hong Kong is third. They are considered much like AGS is in the USA (but grade far more diamonds): Strict for color and clarity but more elite in terms of cut focus. High end retail stores like Chow Sang Sang use IGI HK for their H&A lines, as does HK-based Tse Sui Luen (TSL). For those unfamiliar with TSL, they are much like Tiffany or Cartier, who use internally issued grading reports.

EGL retreated from grading in China but they still have a presence. As mentioned in the linked article above, many Chinese consumers prefer foreign reports... EGL will now issue a report, but they never see the diamond. How? They entered into a relationship with a Shanghai lab and now, if a jeweler wants to provide a "foreign report" for a diamond graded by that lab they order a duplicate EGL Asia report - and the Shanghai lab's data is just replicated on EGL paper.

And in case you still doubt that there are different standards in consistency, couple the fact that IGI is the preferred grader for H&A and the following comment.

And while the labs here have somewhat varying standards there is definitely more consistency in the H&A category. Many diamonds sold as H&A in the USA wouldn't qualify for any H&A lab report in China.

It is also is one of the reason why I used to look at many H&A locally and nitpic... Some H&A i have seen locally and even of those posted here would not qualify, but there are of course some which are truly good as well. But these days I have come to accept that different places different grading/expectations and this is simply the level/range which is accepted as H&A in Singapore, and more importantly, available here.

This is also why I say the location of the lab/branch and its target market and their expectations has an influence on the strictness and consistency of the certs and grading.

IGI grading system : RockyTalky • Diamond Jewelry Forum - Compare Diamond Prices, Discussions & Diamond Information
IGI vs GIA : RockyTalky • Diamond Jewelry Forum - Compare Diamond Prices, Discussions & Diamond Information
Any Qs/Interest in 2013 Chinese Diamond Market & Traditions? : RockyTalky • Diamond Jewelry Forum - Compare Diamond Prices, Discussions & Diamond Information


UPDATE :

Found the latest comparison, June 2013, now EGL Swapped... EGL - USA up and EGL - HK down... hahaha. IGI is now graded pretty high, practically on par with GIA, sadly AGS not in the list. As it stands, I retract my statement about EGL-HK, no need to consider liao. Maybe they secretly send the diamonds to the shanghai lab. LOL. BUT IGI still good. Definitely worthy of consideration, too bad they never state which location/branch they send to

Lastly, as can been seen and commented in the article as well, IGI is practically as good as GIA, yet their cert commands the second lowest price... Isn't this great for consumers that know this and know how to choose their diamonds ? Also, i doubt they sent it to the Antwerp branch, so if you can get one from there it would be even better, esp those I saw which were graded more strictly then even GIA would have graded them.

Diamonds.net - Grading the Graders
Newsflash: Grading labs are not all the same. : RockyTalky • Diamond Jewelry Forum - Compare Diamond Prices, Discussions & Diamond Information

 

[Draculav]

I agree with your statement. The issue is that they cannot keep it consistent. Why is it that IGI Antwerp can produce stricter grading ? It might boil down to the history of the place and its relationship with cutting as well as the demand of customers in that area, as well as the fact that it is the headquarters. Is it disturbing ? Maybe, if you don't know about it, but if you DO know, this is an opportunity to get something better for cheaper, due to the misconception that all IGI grading is the same.

Another reason they can't keep it consistent is cos it is graded by a human, even GIA is just MORE consistent, and does not guarantee a stone which is resubmitted will get the same grade, its is written in the disclaimer in the cert itself. One of the reason people go to AGS and GIA is a higher consistency.

Your analogy of Tiffany is not correct... The shops in different places sell the same item in different places, but chances are they are produced in the same place... Just like you buy a Toshiba or Fujitsu laptop you can pay an additional $1000 to get the exact same model but made in japan. If everything under a brand is the same and i offer you 2 cars, same brand same model, one made in Germany and one made in China, the china one $10.00 cheaper, which would you choose ? After all, according to you, same brand same quality.

Lastly, i never said EGL is good.... i only said those by the HK Lab is good, big difference. EGL probably has the largest inconsistancy between labs.



This is unfortunately true and if you intend to resell, your diamond with a GIA or AGS cert WILL retain value better, so i agree with you here. As to why it is lower price, it would be due to lower denmand, due to misinformation. I wonder why... just kidding. But its better for those of us in the know as we can find better stones for lower prices as long as you know what to look out for.



Yep, i have read this article and for most part agree with it given the context. You realize that pricescope is a FOR-profit site based in the US and that is the context and the labs they will send to right ? It specifically says there EGL-USA. Also, the article is from 2004... There was a more recent one posted some months back on the forums, let me see if i can find it as it would be a better reference.

I would also like to ask you, if you have with your own eyes, done a blind test between super ideals from different labs graded the same in terms of color and clarity ? Because what i speak of is not only from reading but also from experience. It might simply be coincidence that what i saw just happened to present the information to me this way. Unfortunately i no longer have access to the IGI stones or i would invite you to do a blind test.

If you wish to quote pricescope, here are some recent forum threads (1 from 2011, 1 from 2012, 1 from 2013) about IGI. Trade members hold IGI in pretty high regard, Also when referring to labs they usually refer to the place or branch as well, such as EGL-International. There are of course many others, but i think this should be enough. Yeah, i enjoy participating and reading pricescope forums and check there everyday as well. Good place to learn and pic up more, but you should take note of the limitations, culture and the context of the information provided as well, and not just take it blindly as information by non trade members tend to be a bit wonky sometimes.

Here's my return quote by one of the most respected trade members John Pollard. Also, seems EGL-Asia, which is the Hong Kong branch is out of China cos people nowadays prefer foreign certs. They instead franchise their name to someone else. Will try to check out these stones graded by a third party if i get the chance. And now, IGI HK has taken their place as the lab to go to for top notch cut quality grading



And in case you still doubt that there are different standards in consistency, couple the fact that IGI is the preferred grader for H&A and the following comment.



It is also is one of the reason why I used to look at many H&A locally and nitpic... Some H&A i have seen locally and even of those posted here would not qualify, but there are of course some which are truly good as well. But these days I have come to accept that different places different grading/expectations and this is simply the level/range which is accepted as H&A in Singapore, and more importantly, available here.

This is also why I say the location of the lab/branch and its target market and their expectations has an influence on the strictness and consistency of the certs and grading.

IGI grading system : RockyTalky • Diamond Jewelry Forum - Compare Diamond Prices, Discussions & Diamond Information
IGI vs GIA : RockyTalky • Diamond Jewelry Forum - Compare Diamond Prices, Discussions & Diamond Information
Any Qs/Interest in 2013 Chinese Diamond Market & Traditions? : RockyTalky • Diamond Jewelry Forum - Compare Diamond Prices, Discussions & Diamond Information


UPDATE :

Found the latest comparison, June 2013, now EGL Swapped... EGL - USA up and EGL - HK down... hahaha. IGI is now graded pretty high, practically on par with GIA, sadly AGS not in the list. As it stands, I retract my statement about EGL-HK, no need to consider liao. Maybe they secretly send the diamonds to the shanghai lab. LOL. BUT IGI still good. Definitely worthy of consideration, too bad they never state which location/branch they send to

Lastly, as can been seen and commented in the article as well, IGI is practically as good as GIA, yet their cert commands the second lowest price... Isn't this great for consumers that know this and know how to choose their diamonds ? Also, i doubt they sent it to the Antwerp branch, so if you can get one from there it would be even better, esp those I saw which were graded more strictly then even GIA would have graded them.

Diamonds.net - Grading the Graders
Newsflash: Grading labs are not all the same. : RockyTalky • Diamond Jewelry Forum - Compare Diamond Prices, Discussions & Diamond Information

Ahhh! My PC hanged while replying your draft... I'm gonna skip the links as I'm not bothered to find them again. But you can just search them on the internet easily. I'll repost them when I have time..

In the analogy, you are assuming that that they are done in the same
place.. ok, using your car or laptop as an example.. one is made in
China, and the other Germany. If the parts, workmanship are exactly
the same, I am fine where the car was made or come from.. the final
product would be the exactly the same, where it is made in China or
Germany.. It has to be identical, where people can't tell the
difference where the car was made. but with IGI, it is not the same.
Different IGI labs gives different results. So where is the reputation
and quality control in that?

Like you said, people go for GIA/AGS because they are consistent.
Unfortunately, IGI is known to be softer in their grade and less
consistent.

Naturally, people sell IGI diamonds would never say bad things about
the certificate. I do take forums and what people say with a pinch of
salt. You never know who is the one behind the post or article. For
all you know, it might even be IGI themselves trying to promote their
own cert. However, majority of articles from different websites or
forums points to the same conclusion that IGI is inferior.

I strongly feel that IGI stones are profit driven meant to fool
uninformed buyers. Simple logic:

How much does it cost to certify a diamond with GIA?
USD 100 - USD 200

If I have a uncertified diamond which is $10,000. I send it to GIA to grade
for $200. MY cost will be $10,200.
GIA grades the diamond and gives it a: 1.00ct F VS2, Cut - Very good
For that specs, the diamond can be sold for eg. $13,000

But, if I sent my uncertified diamond to IGI to certify it.
IGI gives the following grading: 1.00 D VS1, Cut - Excellent
The diamond can now be sold for eg. $15,000

For a consumer point of view.. if I compare these 2 diamonds of the
same specs but different cert,
IGI 1.00 D VS1 - $15,000
GIA 1.00 D VS1 - $18,000

I would be thinking, wow! the IGI diamond is a great buy! it's $3,000
cheaper than the GIA one, even though the specs are the same! But in
reality, if the IGI 1.00 D VS1 was to be sent to GIA, it will come out
to be a different grading and to be actually worth $13,000.
Retailer gains, consumer loses.

The fact is, it only cost USD100-USD200 to grade a diamond with GIA.

The big question is - Why don't retailers just send their diamonds to GIA if the amount is so insignificant?

Answer: They know that the diamond would receive better grading in IGI, and can earn higher profits from those inflated gradings. I heard that some diamonds can even come with 2 certificates. It is up to the seller to decide which certificate to use for them to be more profitable to sell.

 

[utorz-]

As bro Hollander mentioned. Not enough information. Based on this, assuming super ideal or modified cut with plain setting, still seems correct. If its anything else then need more info.

Ohh, I wasn't able to figure out the diamond report thingy but managed to awhile back

With the debate the other bros are having over the different certs, I am even more unsure now (not that I understood really..)

Mine is graded by IGI Antwerp,
Natural Diamond
Round brilliant
0.37carat
Color E
Clarity VS1
Cut grade, polish and symmetry are all Excellent
measurement: 4.63 - 4.65 x 2.84 mm
Table: 57%
Crown Height - Angle 14.5% - 34°
Pavilion Depth - Angle 43% - 40.9°
Girdle Thickness Medium (Faceted)
Culet Pointed
Total Depth 61.3%
Fluorescence None



These are the info from the report, though I didn't understand it much.
I walked into the store and was asked to quote a budget and was shown this. Then I while walking around one day I stumbled into a shop and saw like bigger diamonds at a cheaper (relatively speaking) price. I know at least that size is just one factor but it got me thinking if I had made a good choice :\.

thanks!

 

[EricMagnusLensherr]

Ahhh! My PC hanged while replying your draft... I'm gonna skip the links as I'm not bothered to find them again. But you can just search them on the internet easily. I'll repost them whaen I have time..

In the analogy, you are assuming that that they are done in the same
place.. ok, using your car or laptop as an example.. one is made in
China, and the other Germany. If the parts, workmanship are exactly
the same, I am fine where the car was made or come from.. the final
product would be the exactly the same, where it is made in China or
Germany.. It has to be identical, where people can't tell the
difference where the car was made. but with IGI, it is not the same.
Different IGI labs gives different results. So where is the reputation
and quality control in that?

Erm... Isn't that my point? Even car and computer is different price due to diff quality when manufactured in diff place... Else why would made in different place have diff price? BTW, its not only an analogy... its actually happens. You can ask for made in japan laptops or cars, you just pay more...

Like you said, people go for GIA/AGS because they are consistent.
Unfortunately, IGI is known to be softer in their grade and less
consistent.

Naturally, people sell IGI diamonds would never say bad things about
the certificate. I do take forums and what people say with a pinch of
salt. You never know who is the one behind the post or article. For
all you know, it might even be IGI themselves trying to promote their
own cert. However, majority of articles from different websites or
forums points to the same conclusion that IGI is inferior.

I strongly feel that IGI stones are profit driven meant to fool
uninformed buyers. Simple logic:

How much does it cost to certify a diamond with GIA?
USD 100 - USD 200

If I have a uncertified diamond which is $10,000. I send it to GIA to grade
for $200. MY cost will be $10,200.
GIA grades the diamond and gives it a: 1.00ct F VS2, Cut - Very good
For that specs, the diamond can be sold for eg. $13,000

But, if I sent my uncertified diamond to IGI to certify it.
IGI gives the following grading: 1.00 D VS1, Cut - Excellent
The diamond can now be sold for eg. $15,000

For a consumer point of view.. if I compare these 2 diamonds of the
same specs but different cert,
IGI 1.00 D VS1 - $15,000
GIA 1.00 D VS1 - $18,000

I would be thinking, wow! the IGI diamond is a great buy! it's $3,000
cheaper than the GIA one, even though the specs are the same! But in
reality, if the IGI 1.00 D VS1 was to be sent to GIA, it will come out
to be a different grading and to be actually worth $13,000.
Retailer gains, consumer loses.

The fact is, it only cost USD100-USD200 to grade a diamond with GIA.

The big question is - Why don't retailers just send their diamonds to GIA if the amount is so insignificant?

Answer: They know that the diamond would receive better grading in IGI, and can earn higher profits from those inflated gradings. I heard that some diamonds can even come with 2 certificates. It is up to the seller to decide which certificate to use for them to be more profitable to sell.

And Erm... Please post your links with up to date information about grading statistics to back up your claim when you have a chance... Failing that at least quote reliable sources. no point saying who and who told you... In the forum posts, John Pollard, Gary Halloway and other trade members sure as hell ain't secret agents of IGI trying to promote the IGI brand. In fact Gary is one of the authors of the article YOU posted... The june 2013 article itself is by a staff of Diamond.net, part of the Rapaport Group, which produces your rapaport price list and manages rapnet... If you choose to believe your local sales agent over all of them I have nothing to say

Lastly, yes, certs can be deceiving and cutters do choose where to cert it with for max profit. This not only includes the results but who they are selling it to... If sell China, an IGI cert would be more valuable.

 

[hollander]

It is a nice discussion and a lot of takeaways are given.

My opinion...

Certificate is an additional "vanity", much more if we use the most recognized certifying body, be it the consideration of re-sell, authenticity and accuracy(in terms of 4C). Of course all certifying body are adhering to the advocacy of conflict free diamond.
Certifying body with Global presence will use the same standard for all of their sub-group, they will never use different standard within the same body. (Most if not all)

In the US alone, where the main players are, there are other small Certifying body that dwells well in the market against the GIANT certifying body. It is also correct to say that, having an established Certificate will increase the market value of the diamond/stone. Having said that, if a seller knows afar that his/her diamond will have a lower classification in one Certifying Body, then he will go to the other one that can give a higher classification, higher classification means higher price.

If you are talking to a jeweler from Belgium, HRD will be the best. if you are talking to a jeweler from the US, GIA will be the best. If you are talking to a jeweler from India, IGI will be the best.
It’s very hard to tell not unless they are using the same standard. There are several factors that needs to be considered: accessibility and availability of grading lab is one, price for the certification is another, the source would be another.

Where does the volume of Diamonds in Singapore originating from? This will lead us to why GIA, IGI, AGSL are commonly available here.

AS for the Brand, You will notice that certain popular brands will have their own certification independently, they are also using GIA or AGSL and some other else, but it is evident that the quality of the diamond is not the topmost, but if you are buying their product, it will be at its "prime". Their Brand name which they have established for a long time, have the power to give better value on a normal diamond. I remember an article that give value on the price of the Brand name itself ;-)

Vanity + Brand = Vice a state of mind that triggers your willingness to fulfill your desires

 

[EricMagnusLensherr]

Ohh, I wasn't able to figure out the diamond report thingy but managed to awhile back

With the debate the other bros are h3aving over the different certs, I am even more unsure now (not that I understood really..)

Mine is graded by IGI Antwerp,
Natural Diamond
Round brilliant
0.37carat
Color E
Clarity VS1
Cut grade, polish and symmetry are all Excellent
measurement: 4.63 - 4.65 x 2.84 mm
Table: 57%
Crown Height - Angle 14.5% - 34°
Pavilion Depth - Angle 43% - 40.9°
Girdle Thickness Medium (Faceted)
Culet Pointed
Total Depth 61.3%
Fluorescence None



These are the info from the report, though I didn't understand it much.
I walked into the store and was asked to quote a budget and was shown this. Then I while walking around one day I stumbled into a shop and saw like bigger diamonds at a cheaper (relatively speaking) price. I know at least that size is just one factor but it got me thinking if I had made a good choice :\.

thanks!

Lol ! Yours also IGI stone? Looks good to me. Those numbers look suspiciously like those from the love and co signature series. Hahaha. I personally see no issues with these numbers.

Also, the HCA is 1.2 with E/E/E/VG.

The proportions are good. Probably ideal cut super ideal cut if you want to go down in cut to get a bigger stone its a totally valid choice. Many girls like bigger stone. When I got my e ring. I choose to get an ideal stone rather then super ideal in order to get a bigger size which I knew she prefered. Hahaha

 

[utorz-]

As bro Hollander mentioned. Not enough information. Based on this, assuming super ideal or modified cut with plain setting, still seems correct. If its anything else then need more info.

Lol ! Yours also IGI stone? Looks good to me. Those numbers look suspiciously like those from the love and co signature series. Hahaha. I personally see no issues with these numbers.

Also, the HCA is 1.2 with E/E/E/VG.

You are right about where it is from, haha!
Lost you at HCA though.

I went there mainly because I my girlfriend loved the design from that store. Not that we actually went shopping :/

 

[sadistical]

A million thanks to all bros for your advise and I do apologize for the late reply..

As one bro pointed out as well I just realized that the magnified image of the stone shows some inclusions between the 6 to 7 o'clock area. Will this be actually visible to the naked eye or even affect the light return?

Hi, may I ask how much were you quoted for your diamond?

 

[EricMagnusLensherr]

You are right about where it is from, haha!
Lost you at HCA though.

I went there mainly because I my girlfriend loved the design from that store. Not that we actually went shopping :/

A HCA of under 2 is considered very good and what most people look for. JP's super ideal requires a hca of under 1.4. Yours is 1.2

I believe you paid a decent price and got a good stone, no worries.the numbers indicate that it is at least an ideal cut optimized for brilliance. To determine super ideal will need to see scope images but from my previous experience, its probably very close to super ideal.

If she likes the design then enough ba. If you buy already better don't bring her go see other shops ba. Later she decide she like another design better. Lol

To bro jxyang888
Have a look at the specs of his stone. Most love and co signature are cut to a similar cut of 34/40.9 with very small variations between stones. This is an ideal cut optimized for brilliance.

 

[utorz-]

You are right about where it is from, haha!
Lost you at HCA though.

I went there mainly because I my girlfriend loved the design from that store. Not that we actually went shopping :/

A HCA of under 2 is considered very good and what most people look for. JP's super ideal requires a hca of under 1.4. Yours is 1.2

I believe you paid a decent price and got a good stone, no worries.the numbers indicate that it is at least an ideal cut leaning towards brilliance. To determine super ideal will need to see scope images but from my previous experience, its probably very close to super ideal.

If she likes the design then enough ba. If you buy already better don't bring her go see other shops ba. Later she decide she like another design better. Lol

To bro jxyang888
Have a look at the specs of his stone. Most love and co signature are cut to a similar cut of 34/40.9 with very small variations between stones

Hahaha! ya man! but she doesn't know I ordered it already and keep hinting at me to go see.
Going to get keys to sales of balance flat soon so thats why abit rush haha!

thanks for the info bro!

 

[Grizz.P]

Ohh, I wasn't able to figure out the diamond report thingy but managed to awhile back

With the debate the other bros are having over the different certs, I am even more unsure now (not that I understood really..)

Mine is graded by IGI Antwerp,
Natural Diamond
Round brilliant
0.37carat
Color E
Clarity VS1
Cut grade, polish and symmetry are all Excellent
measurement: 4.63 - 4.65 x 2.84 mm
Table: 57%
Crown Height - Angle 14.5% - 34°
Pavilion Depth - Angle 43% - 40.9°
Girdle Thickness Medium (Faceted)
Culet Pointed
Total Depth 61.3%
Fluorescence None



These are the info from the report, though I didn't understand it much.
I walked into the store and was asked to quote a budget and was shown this. Then I while walking around one day I stumbled into a shop and saw like bigger diamonds at a cheaper (relatively speaking) price. I know at least that size is just one factor but it got me thinking if I had made a good choice :\.

thanks!

I bought a 0.37 carat, E, VS1 diamond ring for $2985.
Should have done a little bit more research before committing but just wanted to know if i kena tok anot lol.

Hmm.. No offense, for that price or less, I think it could have gotten you a Super Ideal cut (GIA) with setting.. For IGI, there should be more cost saving. If I remember correctly, 0.3ct+ super ideal cut diamond was like 1k+? Unless your setting comes with side diamonds that can bump up your total price. Nevertheless, what's important is that your happy with it. Emotional value can take over price

 

[utorz-]

Hmm.. No offense, for that price or less, I think it could have gotten you a Super Ideal cut (GIA) with setting.. For IGI, there should be more cost saving. If I remember correctly, 0.3ct+ super ideal cut diamond was like 1k+? Unless your setting comes with side diamonds that can bump up your total price. Nevertheless, what's important is that your happy with it. Emotional value can take over price

I just had a nagging suspicion that I was probably smoked, especially for the gross lack of research on my part (almost impulsive actually). Just wanted to confirm it

But hey! I didn't buy it for its value but for the symbol, so I guess I am fine with it.
haha, but have to admit it kinda sucks that I could get one better for my girl is all.

 

[jxyang888]

To bro jxyang888
Have a look at the specs of his stone. Most love and co signature are cut to a similar cut of 34/40.9 with very small variations between stones. This is an ideal cut optimized for brilliance.

Bro Eric haha seems like u r spot on again it's from love n co. After visiting the retailers I really think its value vs brand, how did u all make the decision?! I am curious what did u get for your wife Anyway for JP, u must pay the deposit "book" the diamond before they send u the scope images?

 

[zeally]

Bro Eric haha seems like u r spot on again it's from love n co. After visiting the retailers I really think its value vs brand, how did u all make the decision?! I am curious what did u get for your wife Anyway for JP, u must pay the deposit "book" the diamond before they send u the scope images?

I never cared about the brand at all! Haha! But certification matters to me as it has a direct link to the price.

For JP, you can go down to see the diamond and the scope images as well. Only for those diamond where you need JP to import for you, then will you need to pay deposit first. That is as far I understood, maybe the bros who have previously done so can give more advices?

 

[EricMagnusLensherr]

Originally Posted by jxyang888: Bro Eric haha seems like u r spot on again it's from love n co. After visiting the retailers I really think its value vs brand, how did u all make the decision?! I am curious wh1at did u get for your wife Anyway for JP, u must pay the deposit "book" the diamond before they send u the scope images?

I brought her viewing but I didn't tell her I buy. I got it from private jeweller as well after learning and visiting many shops. That time I was fascinated by if stone nearly got a E IF ideal cut. But after fishing for info ended up with E VS2 as the info I managed to fish is she prefer bigger.

She is an artist by trade and in blind tests can tell color diff up to E vs F. D vs E she cannot tell, so I went with E. Ideal instead of super ideal is again because of maximising size for budget without sacrificing too much.

Brand wise, I think unless its more upscale like tiffany, Cartier, VC and A those kind of level, otherwise not much point ba. Soo kee all those considered branded meh ? Who going to boast of wearing a soo kee ring for me, upgrade also not important as I feel e ring very unique, keep for life, only got one. If want bigger one get another ring later. The second ring less sentimetal value want to upgrade can upgrade. Lol

Lastly for design, I fished around for designs she liked and designed my own if you decide to go down the custom route, JP really shines and is one of the reasons people choose them as well.

Originally Posted by Grizz.P: Hmm.. No offense, for that price or less, I think it could have gotten you a Super Ideal cut (GIA) with setting.. For IGI, there should be more cost saving. If I remember correctly, 0.3ct+ super ideal cut diamond was like 1k+? Unless your setting comes with side diamonds that can bump up your total price. Nevertheless, what's important is that your happy with it. Emotional value can take over price

I would put JP price at about 2k for 0.37 E VS1 with settings another 500, about 2.5k. his is retail shop and other post sales stuff and vouchers etc. That's why I said its a decent price, not excellent. Hahaha. I think its not too bad, not the best price but definitely decent considering I believe the stone is also close to super ideal given their cut consistency. Pay for the stone, not the cert plus his gf liked the design

Originally Posted by zeally: I never cared about the brand at all! Haha! But certification matters to me as it has a direct link to the price.

For JP, you can go down to see the diamond and the scope images as well. Only for those diamond where you need JP to import for you, then will you need to pay deposit first. That is as far I understood, maybe the bros who have previously done so can give more advices?

Yep, your info is correct. should not need to put deposit unless you want them to bring in a stone. Can happily ask for stones to view and ask them to send you the images of the stone you interested in.

Also, for first timers prepare more time as they will give you a basic course on diamonds which is very useful.

 

[torque]

hi bros i can't seem to find a setting i like, any suggestions on where to look or how to look?

Thanks so much!!

 

[hollander]

hi bros i can't seem to find a setting i like, any suggestions on where to look or how to look?

Thanks so much!!

Hi Bro,

The online shops have a wide variety of options and some of them are from popular designers.

So you can compare as the photo's are readily available but the problem is customizing it to fit your needs, though easily Your shop can do that with an additional fee. But be very cautious on choosing as the images can be good but on the actual it will be not, take for instance when you see a setting with diamond on it, perfectly the proportions are nice but when you put your stone it will be odd looking.

The shop have a variety of settings that are readily available for you to see the actual ring, you can even mount the stone for you to see the outcome of the ring, im not pushing those designs if you have something so special in mind but convenience wise it's already there for you to choose, be it with side diamonds or the plain and simple time classic yet elegant settings.

 

[jxyang888]

I just had a nagging suspicion that I was probably smoked, especially for the gross lack of research on my part (almost impulsive actually). Just wanted to confirm it

But hey! I didn't buy it for its value but for the symbol, so I guess I am fine with it.
haha, but have to admit it kinda sucks that I could get one better for my girl is all.

I think that most important u got one that your girl like! I think it is a decent buy too.

 

[jxyang888]

Thanks Bro Eric for sharing i agreed. Unless its the luxury brands that we are looking at, otherwise it's almost the same. I think for us guys we are very much into the specs, for the ladies it's really about their feel, preferences (like bigger diamonds, design of the settings, how sparkle it is) haha (not generalising here ok!)After looking around, I think I might sacrifice abit of the clarity, and maybe go for colour and size. Clarity does not affect the brilliance of the diamond right? What u all think about 0.35 E VS2 n 0.45 E VS2? The cut is the same for both but, due to the size the diff is 600. Of cos if I compare side by side I can see the diff. If separate, unlikely u can notice much.