No problem and thanks for the replyYou never ask JP do some glamour shots of your proposal ring for you ah ? I feel that that is one of their coolest value added services. hahaha.
Need some advice. I recently bought a diamond ring from Lee Hwa. At first I thought I got a good deal for a 0.43ct. E VVS2 for $4k.. and it is a triple excellent. It was only when I compared it with my friend’s diamond, that I realize my diamond looks sub-standard. My friends diamond is a 0.41ct. G VS1.
It looked more yellow even though my friend’s diamond was a G colour. It was obvious that my diamond had less sparkles and dull. It even looked slightly smaller even though mine is 0.02ct. bigger. I was hoping that maybe it was dirt on the diamond and tried washing it. I even brought it back to the shop to ask them to wash it thoroughly for me. But it made no difference.
When I went to check on my diamond, I read that IGI certificates are sub-standards and is not as good as GIA certificates. What pissed me off the most is that the sales guy clearly told me that IGI was as good as GIA! He told me that the standard was the same and it is popular. Am I able to bring this to the Singapore Consumer Association to complain of them deceiving me?
I came across this HCA tool Holloway Cut Advisor | HCA Tool | PriceScope that you guys are using for a diamond score. One of the factors needed is the depth % of the diamond, which my IGI certificate doesn’t even have.. argh.
I’m more or less convinced that I got screwed over.. You think I can try to get a refund by reporting to CASE?
In fact I do have the photos but look kinda generic and lifeless. Actual ring on my lady's finger is much more magnificent
Lee Hwa sells diamonds from IGI too. Posted my hoot here before..
It is from IGI antwerp..
The diamond look less sparkly compared to GIA ones.. I compared it with a GIA E color and can see it is slightly more yellowish... and my wife said she can see it very obvious.. maybe her eyes are sharper than mine. Even my friend's GIA G color diamond looked better and whiter than my E color..
When I was buying the diamond in the shop, they got show me GIA and IGI diamond together.. it looked the same and I couldnt see any difference at all.. I was told it was the same and a good buy. So I bought the IGI since its cheaper.. On a hindsight, I realized it was because of the strong shop lighting which make the diamond what i thought it would be.. After buying and seeing my diamond outdoors in normal lighting, it looked dimmer and more yellowish than I remembered. If I had a choice, I would have got GIA instead for just a little price difference.. or maybe I am those unlucky few who got a lower IGI antwerp diamond?
Yeah, as i mentioned, the depth plays a minor role in HCA and affects mainly the grading for spread (keep all your numbers the same and change the depth in HCA to see this.) The table, crown and pavillion angles are enough to give you an idea of the performance.
Sadly, no, cutting should not affect the color when viewed from the side... as far as i know... so yeah, even without a white paper, if it looks more yellow looking at it through the side compared to a gia stone next to it, it probably is
Lol Bro Eric understand that. Anyway the price I mention does not include settings. What u think? Most likely will select the 0.45 than the 0.35 one as I feel it is more value maximising.*
Lee Hwa sells diamonds from IGI too. Posted my hoot here before..
It is from IGI antwerp..
The diamond look less sparkly compared to GIA ones.. I compared it with a GIA E color and can see it is slightly more yellowish... and my wife said she can see it very obvious.. maybe her eyes are sharper than mine. Even my friend's GIA G color diamond looked better and whiter than my E color..
When I was buying the diamond in the shop, they got show me GIA and IGI diamond together.. it looked the same and I couldnt see any difference at all.. I was told it was the same and a good buy. So I bought the IGI since its cheaper.. On a hindsight, I realized it was because of the strong shop lighting which make the diamond what i thought it would be.. After buying and seeing my diamond outdoors in normal lighting, it looked dimmer and more yellowish than I remembered. If I had a choice, I would have got GIA instead for just a little price difference.. or maybe I am those unlucky few who got a lower IGI antwerp diamond?
Initially I wonder where is the difference when all retailers says that their cutting is the best, triple excellence? But I was introduced to the good and bad excellent concept which I find logical and major retailers do not tell me about that.
Just sharing my thoughts, if i made any mistakes let me know ok, then I can learn and re-assess
But to do it yourself you will still need a loupe and knowledge on how to use and what you are looking out for. @Bro Draculav
Good information. No hard feelings yeah ?
With regards to the report I think its just different grade of reports like GIA got Diamond Dossier (got no inclusion plot) and Diamond Report (with inclusion plot) and AGS got Platinum Report (With ASET Simulation and Light Performance) and Gold Report (based on cut proportions). The lower end reports are usually used for smaller stones or not so good stones. For example, while gia diamond report is normally issued for stones over 1ct, I have seen a sub 1 ct stone with a full diamond report. This was because it was IF and very well cut and the cutter decided to go for the full report. There is only a USD$10 to $20 difference between the full Diamond Report and the Diamond Dossier, but many cutters will still choose a diamond dossier for their sub 1ct stones cos as you said, profit maximization and every cent counts.
This is mostly due to preference in terms of appearance and value of the value add. As mentioned, for myself, i mainly focused on the ring and value adds related directly to the ring like designing and customization rather then vouchers and soft toys. Maybe cos i'm an engineer to very... practical ? Might not always be good cos some times girls also like not so practical stuff like soft toys etc so much know your girl and balance ba. Hahaha. Or buy the ring and buy the soft toy yourself seperately. After all, while it is cute, how many other girls go the same love and co soft toy already. hahahaha. Get some unique soft toy related to something that she likes instead is also more personal.
Marketing ba, everyone will tell you theirs is the best. Safest way is to learn how to view it yourself and evaluate. Failing that, JP or other private jewelers willing to provide you with scope images is the safest option as can post here for other bro's to evaluate
That said if going for branded cuts, as bro Draculav, previously posted, some branded cuts are very well cut like HoF and Destinee etc. All these round brilliant types are easier to evaluate and compare. Those special cuts or modified cuts like rose cuts, celestial all those, even with scope, unless something is very wrong we probably won't know what to look out for even if we saw it. And have to trust them and the brand. When buying a brand sometimes you don't just pay for the diamond, but also for the unique designs, such as the Lee Hwa Forevermark series which really does have some pretty interesting designs.
For this i would say, unless you know how to look at the diamond yourself, some level of trust is required. The cert is just a piece of paper, it can be faked. To check if the report is real, you can check the cert number online at the respective sites (GIA, AGS etc). But its just a piece of paper and could possibly be duplicated, so can check the laser inscription, and verify the inscribed number online. But once again, laser inscription is cheap... If they really want to cheat you, they can inscribe the number on another diamond of similar size. Overseas one possible scam is to give you the real cert but swap the diamond instead, then sell the real separately diamond as well.
As the saying goes, buy the diamond, not the cert. Only way to 100% know if your diamond is your diamond is to know how to see your own inclusions. BTW, if at private jewelers like JP you can request for them to try to find and show you the inclusions on your diamond if you want
I have read somewhere that Love and Co is the high end store of which popular local store? Or totally mix things up
No hard feelings bro. It was never personal
Good point on the different reports.. GIA and AGS does have different reports themselves, where one has more information than the other... like the inclusion plot for GIA and light performance for AGS. IGI had to decide to exclude the depth. lol. though it still can be calculated with the dimensions.
One thing that bothers me was the color.. even different reports in GIA and AGS, the 4Cs are standard.. Eg. if the color and clarity is F VS1, all the reports should still reflect F VS1. Navalkrus found his color to be lower..
Then again, IGI antwerp supposedly got better.. Maybe in 2009, they haven't made the improvements yet.
Thanks Bro Eric.
I just got the information of the cert and is looking forward to receive the scope images.
Here's the cert
HCA Score - Can help me to evaluate as this is the first time using it? Not too sure if I got it right. Thanks in advance
Btw how to i check the report on the GIA website, i trying keying in the numbers and there is no result on it.
Very hard to get Excellent spread unless the depth is less then certain amount. Most Super ideals are E,E,E,VG similar to yours.I only know its under the Soo Kee group and specializes in wedding bands, not sure if its the considered the high end store.
Thanks bro !
Yeah, that would be one of my guesses as well, cos i don't really have a good explanation for his experience. Another possible reason might simply be that I know the private jeweler I went to fly's over seas to pick the diamond himself, and so he possibly picked only those which he saw graded overly strict. Since my experience was with him, that was the info i got. Similarly to the Love and Co, just as they managed to get only diamonds cut to a very specific set of proportions, maybe they also really cheery pick their diamonds.
Smaller table of 54 leans towards fire rather then brilliance. But the angles of 34.5 and 40.6 are quiet safe so this should still be a very brilliant stone.
For the Stars and LGH (55%/75%)... i need to think about it as these are not common numbers and i forgot how it affects performance when coupled with the CA and PA (34.5/40.6). Off the top of my head i can only tell you that shorter LGH of 75 has a chance to be fatter arrows. This can be confirmed once you have the scope images. Not a bad thing, just preference. Wait for the scope images for more info i guess.
Grade Setting Inclusion is Needle which i feel is very good and the stone is probably eye clean.
HCA no Issues
I think the GIA site my be down as I tried some old reports i have seen previously and it says cannot be found also...
Sticking to numbers like crown angle 34.5 and pavilion angle 40.8 is safest.
Finally proposed to her and bought the wedding band too while return to JP for resizing.
0.57c D VVS2 solasfera for proposal ring
15x 0.03c D-F VS1-2 round for wedding band
I only know its under the Soo Kee group and specializes in wedding bands, not sure if its the considered the high end store.
Thanks bro !
Yeah, that would be one of my guesses as well, cos i don't really have a good explanation for his experience. Another possible reason might simply be that I know the private jeweler I went to fly's over seas to pick the diamond himself, and so he possibly picked only those which he saw graded overly strict. Since my experience was with him, that was the info i got. Similarly to the Love and Co, just as they managed to get only diamonds cut to a very specific set of proportions, maybe they also really cheery pick their diamonds.
Smaller table of 54 leans towards fire rather then brilliance. But the angles of 34.5 and 40.6 are quiet safe so this should still be a very brilliant stone.
For the Stars and LGH (55%/75%)... i need to think about it as these are not common numbers and i forgot how it affects performance when coupled with the CA and PA (34.5/40.6). Off the top of my head i can only tell you that shorter LGH of 75 has a chance to be fatter arrows. This can be confirmed once you have the scope images. Not a bad thing, just preference. Wait for the scope images for more info i guess.
Grade Setting Inclusion is Needle which i feel is very good and the stone is probably eye clean.
HCA no Issues
I think the GIA site my be down as I tried some old reports i have seen previously and it says cannot be found also...
Bro Eric, thanks for the help! is there a ideal range for the table? for this case, since the angles are safe, the brilliance should be still alright? i think i kinda lost at the stars and LGH that you mention haha, anyway does it affects the diamond?
Maybe have to look at the scope images first. Btw the GIA website is up, i tried to key in the report no. and it works now.
