Proposal Ring - Part 2

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justpiano

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I went to JP today to re-size my proposal ring. I will need to wait for 7 days before it is re-sized. Oh well....

A tip, when you are hot, your finger tends to be bigger, and otherwise when your body temperature is cold. Make sure you keep this in mind when you are measuring the ring size.

Anyway, anyone has experience getting JP to re-size their ring? I gathered from the net if it is not done perfectly, it could result in the weakening of the ring (and other negative implications e.g. not perfect circle anymore, can see a break etc...). I am worried but i do not have a choice else it cannot be wore. What is the end result of your re-sizing? Please share. Thanks!

I resized my ring with them before with no issues. I made mine 2 size smaller and the ring still looks very round and brand new. I had some scratches on my ring from knocks and they disappeared when I resized my ring.
If the ring is too big, must resize! If not fall off how? =:p
 
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Ideally, the smaller the table the better.. though I haven't compared it in person.

Small table:
+ fire
+ sparkle scintillation
+ patterned scintillation
- spread
- brightness

Large table:
+ spread
+ brightness
- fire
- sparkle scintillation
- patterned scintillation
*danger of fish eye effect

I agree with the pros and cons, but I don't think smaller would be better, I personally prefer a good balance. However for banbanz case, if looking for balance, 58 might be a little big. For me I think that for a 40.8 pav, a good range would be 54 to 57. A table of 58 would be more suitable for a pavilion angle of 40.6. But if looking for brightness and size, the current diamond would still be ok. And its definitly no where near a fish eye.
 
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limited

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TY! But you know, my parents ain't very happy with my buying such an expensive stone with a small carat :( they say I waste money. Cannot understand what they thinking. Old folks theory is the bigger the better, the rest like color clarity doesn't matter, don't mentioned the tripple E. Sad to be trashed by them :(

It will all be worth it bro once your fiancee lights up! =] Cause in their mindset, diamonds are pretty much useless/worthless stones. Only currency in jewelry is GOLD. hahah! The most important thing is that you are happy buying the stone, and the thoughts that you have placed into it to bring it to your fiancee that matters! :)


ashhit

I agree with the pros and cons, but I don't think smaller would be better, I personally prefer a good balance. However for banbanz case, if looking for balance, 58 might be a little big. For me I think that for a 40.8 pav, a good range would be 54 to 57. A table of 58 would be more suitable for a pavilion angle of 40.6. But if looking for brightness and size, the current diamond would still be ok. And its definitly no where near a fish eye.

Ya I agree too. a 58% table may distort the H&A considerably. If you're only after a diamond then i'd say it wont matter. But If you're after a H&A, you may end up with one that isn't what you're paying for.

And i think we also stress, easiest way to determine the cut quality of the diamond, is to have scope images. =]
 
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Ya I agree too. a 58% table may distort the H&A considerably. If you're only after a diamond then i'd say it wont matter. But If you're after a H&A, you may end up with one that isn't what you're paying for.

And i think we also stress, easiest way to determine the cut quality of the diamond, is to have scope images. =]

Yep, but the key word here is may. Due to GIA rounding, the Pavilion Angle could be 40.7 and the lower girdle could be 78. This would still make for a decent H&A diamond together with a 58% table. I'm sure JP considered all these which can be clearly seen by the scope images when selecting their super ideal... Best way to know is still to see the scope images. hahahaha.

And also... I did not say nor do i think it won't distort it considerably... 58 is still not exactly a very large table. At worse it slightly off, but thats about it. The change is for most parts relatively linear and not like the moment you cross a magic number the look of the H&A suddenly turns into a distorted mess...
 
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saintgtril

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Thanks limited, kendrick272 & justpiano! With what you guys shared, that gives me a peace of mind. Guess i worry unduly. :s13:

haha end result of resizing.. you can wear the ring! haha
It doesn't actually weaken the ring unless you're re sizing it beyond a few sizes. Then that will pose a problem for the ring. Otherwise its fine! I'm sure JP is well acquainted with ring resizes. Otherwise you can try other jewelers. And do make sure you get to see your GIA numbers on the diamonds too. Its known for people to swap the diamond out!

Bro no worries with the resizing. It will not affect anything at all and you can resize to a maximum of 4 size up or down. Any sizes above this +/- 4 will affect the ring itself.
And JP will do first 4 resizes for free. Thats what they told me.

From what i knows, technical data are just the basic. You need to see the scope to know more about the light leakage. Experts correct me on this. And it applies only to round cut not the modified cut.

I resized my ring with them before with no issues. I made mine 2 size smaller and the ring still looks very round and brand new. I had some scratches on my ring from knocks and they disappeared when I resized my ring.
If the ring is too big, must resize! If not fall off how? =:p
 

S1rius

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The 2nd one, 0.55ct F VS2
HeartsRB055FVS2GIA7151571159_zps57bdffdb.jpg

CertificateRB055FVS2GIA7151571159_zps31ab7e9d.jpg

HCAScoreRB055FVS2GIA7151571159_zpsac62ede0.jpg

AsetRB055FVS2GIA7151571159_zps19cb65c3.jpg

IdealRB055FVS2GIA7151571159_zps3f05640e.jpg

ActualRB055FVS2GIA7151571159_zpsf8bc3340.jpg


Somehow, I noticed the middle part is not symmetrical, is it normal?

Bros, any input on this?
 
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Bros, any input on this?

Hi bro, very sorry! Not sure how we missed your post! Of the two diamonds you posted, the numbers on this 0.55 is definitly safer then the 0.53. The hearts image is also better. The aset of the 0.53 somehow looks better to me but it might also be due to the following issue. With regards to the lack of symmetry, the diamond might be tilted. This would also help explain the extra dark areas in the table in the middle of the diamond seen in the last magnified image. Please confirm this with JP.
 
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S1rius

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Hi bro, very sorry! Not sure how we missed your post! Of the two diamonds you posted, the numbers on this 0.55 is definitly safer then the 0.53. The hearts image is also better. The aset of the 0.53 somehow looks better to me but it might also be due to the following issue. With regards to the lack of symmetry, the diamond might be tilted. This would also help explain the extra dark areas in the table in the middle of the diamond seen in the last magnified image. Please confirm this with JP.

No worries about it, appreciate your replies :) When i was at JP looking at both of them, am tilted towards e 0.55, as it looks significantly bigger,lol. Anyway, mind explaining y e 0.55 has better no.? Cause i thought for H&A, e lower a HCA e better?
 

dixonmason

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Hi bro, very sorry! Not sure how we missed your post! Of the two diamonds you posted, the numbers on this 0.55 is definitly safer then the 0.53. The hearts image is also better. The aset of the 0.53 somehow looks better to me but it might also be due to the following issue. With regards to the lack of symmetry, the diamond might be tilted. This would also help explain the extra dark areas in the table in the middle of the diamond seen in the last magnified image. Please confirm this with JP.

Hi.. sorry I'm really a noob at this... I was wondering if I should or not visit JP with my gf..... hv anybody here went to JP with their gf or bf here..?? How was the experience like with all the sharing for one hr+ and stuff?? I want to surprise her tmrw as I've already made appointment with JP. She doesn't know it yet.

Would appreciate ur advise. Apologies for the short notice. Lols. Quite rushing huh.
 

dixonmason

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Hi.. sorry I'm really a noob at this... I was wondering if I should or not visit JP with my gf..... hv anybody here went to JP with their gf or bf here..?? How was the experience like with all the sharing for one hr+ and stuff?? I want to surprise her tmrw as I've already made appointment with JP. She doesn't know it yet.

Would appreciate ur advise. Apologies for the short notice. Lols. Quite rushing huh.
 

pinkpink86

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Hi.. sorry I'm really a noob at this... I was wondering if I should or not visit JP with my gf..... hv anybody here went to JP with their gf or bf here..?? How was the experience like with all the sharing for one hr+ and stuff?? I want to surprise her tmrw as I've already made appointment with JP. She doesn't know it yet.

Would appreciate ur advise. Apologies for the short notice. Lols. Quite rushing huh.

For me, I told my bf to bring me along as I wanted to choose it myself. It was a very informative session. The staff there are friendly & they won't pressurize u to buy their diamonds. Feel free to ask any questions. It's also a gd chance to know what ur gf's ideal diamond specification is. If she likes surprises, i suggest u go alone but u dun have to buy on the spot.

Hope that helps ;)
 
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No worries about it, appreciate your replies :) When i was at JP looking at both of them, am tilted towards e 0.55, as it looks significantly bigger,lol. Anyway, mind explaining y e 0.55 has better no.? Cause i thought for H&A, e lower a HCA e better?

o_O no idea why it looks bigger. Hahahaha ! One reason i feel it is better is because its numbers crown angle 34.5 pavilion angle 40.8 and 56% table provide the best balance of fire and brilliance. If you don't know if you prefer a brighter diamond or a more fiery diamond, and are not willing to sacrifice either, this would be the best. The next is because the numbers are right smack in the middle of the ideal range. This is the only number whereby even with errors, the numbers should still be in the ideal range. (Gia rounds to nearest 0.5 for crown angle and 0.2 for pavilion 1% for table)

The HCA is NOT a selection tool and should not be used as such. Gary intended it as a REJECTION tool. HCAs below 2 are good candidates, 2.5 to 3.0 maybe still can, more then that reject (Numbers given by him). Most of us simply aim for a HCA of below 2. The idea that lower is better is in fact wrong. I have no idea why JP chose to use it as a selection tool and decided that super ideals should be below HCA 1.4. The HCA is in fact based on Gary's opinion and NOT balanced. For example, not all values are given equal weight (fire is in fact given less weight) and certain cuts which may look great are penalized (slightly steeper or deeper cuts, which is why Gary says a HCA of up to 2.5 to 3 can still be considered, in order to include these cuts). Once the HCA is below 2, there is no better or worse. An Ex/Ex/Ex/VG is in no way worse then a Ex/Ex/VG/VG which scores below 2. They just have different characteristics.

Of the 2 diamonds, based solely on numbers, both are in fact pretty good. The only thing off center about the 0.53 is the Pavilion angle of 40.6 and the 58% table (the 58% table actually works with the 40.6 pavilion angle, so it still relatively balanced) and the only thing off center of the 0.55 is the 55 stars. Given the 2, i decided that the 0.55 stars should have a smaller impact on the look then the 40.6 pavilion angle and 58% table combo, which is why i said the 0.55 was better. Both are still super ideal candidates to me.

For the scopes, the hearts for the 0.53 really looks not as good as that of the 0.55 to me... For the 0.55 I'm still curious about the dark area on the table in the middle of the diamond. Is it caused by tilt or is there some other reason ? Pictures are taken in 2 positions, table down for the hearts and table up for the other 3 images. If it was tilted when table up, all 3 images would be affected. The table up images of the 0.53 all match perfectly, but the 0.55 has strange dark areas around the middle of the magnified images not shown in the scope images.

Hi.. sorry I'm really a noob at this... I was wondering if I should or not visit JP with my gf..... hv anybody here went to JP with their gf or bf here..?? How was the experience like with all the sharing for one hr+ and stuff?? I want to surprise her tmrw as I've already made appointment with JP. She doesn't know it yet.

Would appreciate ur advise. Apologies for the short notice. Lols. Quite rushing huh.

Definitely agree with pinkpink86 on this. If you want to know more about her preferences, bring her ! If you want to surprise her with the ring, then don't ! Don't worry about the tutorial, its extremely informative and definitely no pressure. When i brought my other half last time, she definitely wasn't bored. You will have a chance to hands on and view some diamonds with the scope, and if at any time you feel like it (becasue you feel bored or what), you can let them know and stop the tutorial. And yep, you can just go and get some idea of the size and price within your budget, no need to buy on the spot :)
 
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spLeenfuL

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Hello everyone, just managed to have some time to load this the following photos. I went to JP on wednesday & was served by David, it was a very informative session. Very professional of him I will say

I was given this two choices, feel free to give comments if any

The 1st one, 0.53ct G VS2.
HeartsRB053GVS2GIA2156345809_zps8bbfc279.jpg

AsetRB053GVS2GIA2156345809_zpsf7358a55.jpg

IdealRB053GVS2GIA2156345809_zps8a4cd14a.jpg

ActualRB053GVS2GIA2156345809_zps0d0d553c.jpg

The 2nd one, 0.55ct F VS2
HeartsRB055FVS2GIA7151571159_zps57bdffdb.jpg

AsetRB055FVS2GIA7151571159_zps19cb65c3.jpg

IdealRB055FVS2GIA7151571159_zps3f05640e.jpg

ActualRB055FVS2GIA7151571159_zpsf8bc3340.jpg


Somehow, I noticed the middle part is not symmetrical, is it normal?

Both diamonds looks great to me.
Is it me of is the Actual diamond image of the 0.53 G VS2 seem to abit whiter than the 0.55 F VS2? Or maybe its just my computer screen. hahaha
 

DawnMin

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HCA is not based off gary's opinion

it's based off proportional ratio between the crown and pavilion angle with acceptable range of depth and table against it.

"An Ex/Ex/Ex/VG is in no way worse then a Ex/Ex/VG/VG which scores below 2. They just have different characteristics."

Wrong, there is a high chance it can be worse.

The HCA was developed to aid people to simplify acceptable ranges. Just like how all the different labs have their acceptable ranges of what ideal and excellent is, not only JP looks to a lower HCA, even ACA whiteflash has scores below 1.5

you are right to say a 1.7 may not look bad, but there is a higher chance than something below 1.5, and given most consumers are not experts, companies with super ideals do their filtration for them. bluenile signature carries a wide variety of 0.3 to 2.5 and up HCA scores, that's because they don't want to narrow their range too much.

ex/ex/vg/vg means that you have a diamond leaning towards fire than scintillation.

simply put, a score below 1.5 has the higher chance of the best combination of fire and scint. :s12:
 

limited

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For the O.55 one how come the hearts look flawed? Is it a alignment problem of the diamond when taking the pictures? anyway the 0.53 hearts alignment at the 5O'clock looks a bit off.

If the spots on the diamond of the 0.55 one is just alignment then go for it!
 
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HCA is not based off gary's opinion

it's based off proportional ratio between the crown and pavilion angle with acceptable range of depth and table against it.

"An Ex/Ex/Ex/VG is in no way worse then a Ex/Ex/VG/VG which scores below 2. They just have different characteristics."

Wrong, there is a high chance it can be worse.

The HCA was developed to aid people to simplify acceptable ranges. Just like how all the different labs have their acceptable ranges of what ideal and excellent is, not only JP looks to a lower HCA, even ACA whiteflash has scores below 1.5

you are right to say a 1.7 may not look bad, but there is a higher chance than something below 1.5, and given most consumers are not experts, companies with super ideals do their filtration for them. bluenile signature carries a wide variety of 0.3 to 2.5 and up HCA scores, that's because they don't want to narrow their range too much.

ex/ex/vg/vg means that you have a diamond leaning towards fire than scintillation.

simply put, a score below 1.5 has the higher chance of the best combination of fire and scint. :s12:

It is based on proportions, yes, but like i mentioned, it is based on his opinion because of the way the weightage is assigned. It is weighted to the look he likes and not all elements are given equal weightage, and this is a fact. Once within the 0-2 range, different numbers have different characteristics, and are not better or worse

On the HCA page it self, it says this in bold...
"A score below 2 (Excellent) means you have eliminated known poor performers (more than 95% of all diamonds). Your own personal preference may be for a diamond with an HCA score of 1.5 more rather than one with a lower score of say 0.5.""

On both the HCA site and his own personal website he says...
"Most people prefer stones that rate 1-2 on a scale where: 0-2 Excellent, 2-4 Very Good, 4-6 Good, 6-8 Fair, and 8-10 Poor. Zero is almost impossible since many of the factors conflict."

These seem to obviously indicate that not lower is better, else he would simply say lower is better and not use the ranges/examples he used. Using it in a lower is better method is using it as a selection tool, not the use it was intended for.

With regards to the EX/EX/EX/VG and EX/EX/VG/VG, it is the same misuse of the HCA as a selection tool. Gary confirmed that this is NOT the case as recently as last month . And says once again that the HCA is a rejection tool, not a selection tool (people misuse it in this manner VERY often). He also goes on to say that ranges up to 2.5 or 3.0 could also be acceptable (i believe this is to accommodate his penalization of steeper and deeper cuts based on his opinion during the creation of the HCA). Most people normally accepts what the creator of the tool says...

Not sure what having stones under 1.5 proves... given the number of ACAs of course there are stones under 1.5, just as there are stones with 2 and above... Check out the Whiteflash ACA page... once again, the white flash ACA favors the 34.9/40.9 cut as i have mentioned before. Over half their stones have numbers close to this, even up to numbers like 35/41. Enter 34.9 and 40.9 in the HCA and tell me what you get. I get 1.7. Is my browser screwed up ? If it is not, then over half of their stone scores over 1.5... Some of the ones with higher numbers even score 2 or 2.1... an example of HCA's penalization of slightly steeper/deeper cuts. So does their super ideal looks worse ? It does NOT. It is simply the look they are going for, and also a number within the range of both the Tolk Ideal and Morse Ideal (sadly ignored by most consumers).

PS: After your last posts about the lower halves i also checked with Jon and he verified that there IS more contrast due to the lower girdle halves, the angles play a part, and the stars while not affecting the hotspots will affect other parts of the diamond which may affect contrast. And the increased contrast is not a visual illusion...

For the O.55 one how come the hearts look flawed? Is it a alignment problem of the diamond when taking the pictures? anyway the 0.53 hearts alignment at the 5O'clock looks a bit off.

If the spots on the diamond of the 0.55 one is just alignment then go for it!

O_O Duno, who said that. I thought the 0.55 looks better then the 0.53, did i miss something ? Hahaha. To me for the 0.53 the obvious issues are the number of uneven V and the difference in sizes of some of the hearts, like how small the 7th heart is compared to the 8th. The 0.55 definitely looks alot better to me.

But i agree, if its just an alignment issue, I would prefer the 0.55.
 
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DawnMin

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It is based on proportions, yes, but like i mentioned, it is based on his opinion because the weightage is NOT equal. It is weighted to the look he likes. and This is a fact. If you seriously want to know why i disagree this is the reason. Gary is developing the next version of the HCA and people like me who prefer fire have contributed our opinion. The weightage WILL be shifted based on the opinions of a wider group of people rather then his own opinion. If based on the new weightage, fire is given more, considering all things equal, brilliance will be given less. I have idea about the specifics of how the weightage will change yet, but if you use 1.4 or 1.5 to define super ideal, what happens if your stone now exceeds these numbers in the next version of HCA ? Your stone become non super ideal ?

With regards to the EX/EX/EX/VG and EX/EX/VG/VG, Gary confirmed that this is NOT the case as recently as last month. And says once again that the HCA is a rejection tool, not a selection tool. Just as after our conversation i also checked with Jon and he verified that there IS more contrast due to the lower girdle halves, the angles play a part, and the stars while not affecting the hotspots will affect other parts of the diamond which may affect contrast. And the increased contrast is not a visual illusion...

Not sure where you got the White flash HCA fact from... Got check out the Whiteflash ACA page... once again, the white flash ACA favors the the 34.9/40.9 cut. Over half their stones have numbers close to this, even up to numbers like 35/41. Enter 34.9 and 40.9 in the HCA and tell me what you get. I get 1.7. Is my browser screwed up ? If it is not, then over half of their stone scores over 1.5... Some of the ones with higher numbers even score 2 or 2.1... so their super ideal looks worse ? It does NOT. It is simply the look they are going for, a number within the range of both the Tolk Ideal and Morse Ideal, just as Brian Gavin Signature mainly follow a different set of proportions with shorter lower girdles and pav angles around 40.8 to 40.9 and never exceeding 40.9...

If ACA has changed their filtration then i must be wrong, but if you look to threads last year and beyond every stone has less than 1.5, they must have widen their range

i'm going to give you an example
Diamond | 1.015 ct G VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 2661539

Diamond | 0.704 ct I SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 2937166

you understand the relation of crown to pavilion angle right? and you understand towlkosky's proportions and the balance between fire and scintillation

Between these 2, which has a greater balance?
a crown angle closing in on 35 and pavilion on 41 results closer to a nailhead
would you rather play it safe? or take the risk that it's acceptable?

I did not mention the HCA is a selection tool, i've emphasized over again and again it's a rejection tool.

when you talk about weightage of fire, and preference over it and the majority, i'm guessing you are talking about pricescope input. I do follow the forums as well. There wouldn't be a drastic change anyhow, if in any case it's in the regions we are not talking about(FICS AND BICS). Also, when you speak of "majority". Who is this majority? Older generation people purchasing diamonds? Because that's what the older generation prefer. Research based on?

Lastly, it is very possible to find leakage under the table 1.5-2.0. Much less with below 1.5. I can prove this point but id have to look through diamond searches but i'm sure you know this.
 
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