Proposal Ring - Part 2

[spLeenfuL]

They all have the same amount of facets. Its just which one is cut more optimally that will make the diamond more brilliant. They did a video and explained the difference in their blogs - http://jannpaul-diamonds-paul.blogspot.sg/2012/07/what-makes-jp-diamond-part-3-super.html



IDEAL VS SUPER IDEAL (Important)

Ideal
Let's first talk about what is an Ideal cut. I'd like to first say that there is no absolute definition. There should be, but there isn't. Why? Originally it should be defined as a proper set of proportions defined by Marcel Towlkowsky. However, you will find tons and tons of jewelers internationally and locally that sell "ideal" diamonds that fall way out of this set of proportions and then they brand it, and they laser inscribe it on their certificate, and they define ideal that way. So at the end of the day, how can we define what is Ideal?


The HCA / Hollow's Cut advisor is a great Tool to help you out with this. That's me and Mr Holloway at the Las Vegas convention, great man who developed this tool for free(also developed the idealscope)and for people to filter out the good diamonds from the bad. There are limitations in the HCA as well which is why its only a filtering tool, which I will cover later.

Super Ideal
In a nutshell, an ideal cut is a given set of proportions of a diamond that returns majority of light. So what is a Super Ideal? A Super set of proportions of a diamond that returns majority of light?


Unfortunately the term Super Ideal is even more misused that the term ideal. Half the time jewelers will just use it for the sake of using it, even though they don't even know the definition to it.

Ideal Sports Car or Super Sports Car

This is probably a poor example, but it's more or less the best I can cook up in my head at this point of time, the Toyota MRS is an ideal sports car. To drive fast, top down, 2 seater, more or less gets the job done. The Ferrari is the super sports car. Does everything a normal sports car can do, but does everything better and looks better.

The ideal diamond gets the job done in returning light, however the super ideal diamond does everything better.

The difference is, between a MRS and a Ferrari there is a huge price difference. However a Super Ideal vs an Ideal can sometimes cost the same, cheaper or slightly more expensive.


Ideal Cut Diamond
- Ideal set of proportions to return majority of light


Super Ideal Cut Diamond
-A Tighter ideal set of proportions to return maximum light
-Every Facet alignment is taken into consideration
-Symmetry is taken into another level despite what the certification says. Tools are used to make sure the diamond is symmetrical from the bottom and top
-Overall light return is not enough, every facet of the diamond must perform to it's maximum potential in returning light
-Brightness/contrast patterning, fire, scintillation patterns must be taken in account. The diamond must be able to perform optimally under all lighting conditions
- Tools must be used to prove these claims. No tools, no claim.

In short, the super ideal diamond requires heavy scrutiny. Everything must be close to as perfect as possible.

hmm...i still dont understand the difference between super ideal , excellent or even lazare cut haha.

Do they have the same amount of facets?
if i look under the scope and a triple excellent cut diamond has all the characteristic of a super ideal, is it comparable?

im asking because i wanna get the most outta of my money.
just wondering whats the difference between a 3 x E diamond(that has good stats) from other shops vs a super ideal cut from jp.

example i got from a website;
Here’s an analogy I’ll use to explain this in a simplistic manner. In a school exam, students who attain a score of 75/100 or more would receive a distinction “A” grade. Herein also lies the problem of segregating the best performing students based on grades.

If student Y scores 78 points and student Z scores 99 points, both of them fall into the same “A” grade. However, if I were to pick the better student based on the merit of score, student Z is hands down the better choice. In the same way, two diamonds with triple excellent grades can have huge differences once you start looking into details.

is super ideal cut just a ...'very good' excellent cut compare to a normal excellent cut that is usually displayed in stores

nonetheless i think il make a trip down to take a look at JP.

Both makes sense. I went to a local chain store before and they showed me an "Ideal Cut". I checked the HCA score and it was like 4+.. lol.
Unfortunately, most places will just say its an Ideal or Super ideal for the sake of selling.. I went to many stores and they say Ideal and Super Ideal is the same... all their diamonds are Super ideal....
They don't even know what they're talking about

Best thing not to get cheated is just to do homework and check with the scope!

 

[Symbol]

I have been camping here for months reading through this tread and the previous tread. I may be “kiasu” but considering spending thousands of dollars of my hard-earned money for my SO, I feel that I am obliged to do more intense research.

During the GSS, I went to the stores with big discounts. I saw 1 carat for 5k also have… but when you check the specs, they are not GIA certified. Some don’t have certificate. The ones that have GIA certificate will cost more. I think all the diamonds sales they put on posters are all these kind of diamonds with no certificates… I saw another one from Gold heart. I told them the specs I want and my comfortable budget, they offered me a Arctica ice diamond 1carat with a “Fair” cut with depth of more than 68% (which HCA can’t calculate a score), SI1 clarity and cost about $9k++.. Then when I asked if they have something better, she showed me a 1ct Celestial cut…. Over 20k…

In the end, what makes me settled on a purchase is not only the basic 4Cs of the diamond but also the fifth “C” called “Customer service”. Being in a sales line myself for the past 7-8 yrs, I view it as one of the most important aspect for sales. I can boldly say that in term of service, none of the stores come close to what I have experience at (you know la) Jannpaul.

Was served by Vince, he patiently go through all the quality check of the diamonds, explaining the use of the different scopes (which I have some knowledge prior to the visit, thanks to all the forummer here). I have to admit I am not the best customer to deal with as I am quite picky and fussy. However, I was impressed not only by the quality of diamonds they sell but the level of service provided. At no point, I feel that I am talking to a salesperson but rather an adviser sharing his thoughts and experience. In the end, I shortlisted 2 diamonds, an E VS1 and F VVS1, even though the F VVS1 is of a higher price than the E VS1. Vince recommended the E VS1 instead as he say color is more observable to naked eye than clarity. I appreciate his honestly and truthfulness which I feel that other retailers will gladly push for a higher value diamond.

I have placed a deposit for the Octagon diamond, now to proceed to my next stage of research – SETTING *headache*.

So you settled for the E VS1?
I initially wanted to upgrade to an Octagon too. But my SO just couldn't bear to leave her Brellia!
Post the scope images! hahah

 

[cuz531]

Just an update. The GIA cert no. for my diamond is GIA7191690630

Details
0.34Carat E VS2 3EX None Fluorescence
- HCA : 0.9

 

[thesal]

Just an update. The GIA cert no. for my diamond is GIA7191690630

Details
0.34Carat E VS2 3EX None Fluorescence
- HCA : 0.9

Good for you! Sounds like a good deal since the aset is good

 

[Grizz.P]

I have been camping here for months reading through this tread and the previous tread. I may be “kiasu” but considering spending thousands of dollars of my hard-earned money for my SO, I feel that I am obliged to do more intense research.

During the GSS, I went to the stores with big discounts. I saw 1 carat for 5k also have… but when you check the specs, they are not GIA certified. Some don’t have certificate. The ones that have GIA certificate will cost more. I think all the diamonds sales they put on posters are all these kind of diamonds with no certificates… I saw another one from Gold heart. I told them the specs I want and my comfortable budget, they offered me a Arctica ice diamond 1carat with a “Fair” cut with depth of more than 68% (which HCA can’t calculate a score), SI1 clarity and cost about $9k++.. Then when I asked if they have something better, she showed me a 1ct Celestial cut…. Over 20k…

In the end, what makes me settled on a purchase is not only the basic 4Cs of the diamond but also the fifth “C” called “Customer service”. Being in a sales line myself for the past 7-8 yrs, I view it as one of the most important aspect for sales. I can boldly say that in term of service, none of the stores come close to what I have experience at (you know la) Jannpaul.

Was served by Vince, he patiently go through all the quality check of the diamonds, explaining the use of the different scopes (which I have some knowledge prior to the visit, thanks to all the forummer here). I have to admit I am not the best customer to deal with as I am quite picky and fussy. However, I was impressed not only by the quality of diamonds they sell but the level of service provided. At no point, I feel that I am talking to a salesperson but rather an adviser sharing his thoughts and experience. In the end, I shortlisted 2 diamonds, an E VS1 and F VVS1, even though the F VVS1 is of a higher price than the E VS1. Vince recommended the E VS1 instead as he say color is more observable to naked eye than clarity. I appreciate his honestly and truthfulness which I feel that other retailers will gladly push for a higher value diamond.

I have placed a deposit for the Octagon diamond, now to proceed to my next stage of research – SETTING *headache*.

I noticed more and more people are getting the Octagon diamond. Is the brilliance very different from the Super ideal? Or just the shape is different?

 

[biodraft]

Its abit different if you ask me. My white gold portion is thicker with matte finishing. The rose gold portion is just plain. Yours have that "screw driver" look. Did you customize yours? Mine was from their shelf designs.

haven order any wedding bands yet, just collect proposal ring, still got long way to go lol.

i found that picture online. i showed Jann, he said its customised by his customer.

how much you paid for your bands?

 

[viix]

I just had an appointment with JP.. Was looking at a few designs and really like the brellia..
Did go through the entire session but head abit spinning with all the decisions to make..
do you think these specs are reasonable? Hoping someone can help me out here.. Would it be better to go for 1.02 vs1 F instead..
cushion brellia, 0.97carat vvs2 F color
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Color Grade: AGS 1.0 (F)
Clarity Grade: AGS 2 (Vvs2)
Fluorescence: Negligible

 

[thesal]

I just had an appointment with JP.. Was looking at a few designs and really like the brellia..
Did go through the entire session but head abit spinning with all the decisions to make..
do you think these specs are reasonable? Hoping someone can help me out here.. Would it be better to go for 1.02 vs1 F instead..
cushion brellia, 0.97carat vvs2 F color
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Color Grade: AGS 1.0 (F)
Clarity Grade: AGS 2 (Vvs2)
Fluorescence: Negligible

Is the price difference a lot? For me, I will sacrifice clarity (VVS2 to VS 1) for carat (0.97 to 1.02).

 

[viix]

Is the price difference a lot? For me, I will sacrifice clarity (VVS2 to VS 1) for carat (0.97 to 1.02).

Not much actually..

 

[Grizz.P]

I just had an appointment with JP.. Was looking at a few designs and really like the brellia..
Did go through the entire session but head abit spinning with all the decisions to make..
do you think these specs are reasonable? Hoping someone can help me out here.. Would it be better to go for 1.02 vs1 F instead..
cushion brellia, 0.97carat vvs2 F color
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Color Grade: AGS 1.0 (F)
Clarity Grade: AGS 2 (Vvs2)
Fluorescence: Negligible

The 0.97 sounds like a good buy to me. The price jumps a lot once over 1.00ct. When people see the 0.97, they'll probably all think it's a 1ct anyway

 

[thesal]

The 0.97 sounds like a good buy to me. The price jumps a lot once over 1.00ct. When people see the 0.97, they'll probably all think it's a 1ct anyway

Yup, 0.97 will be more worth it.

 

[IceAndDark]

Time to do some sharing

 

[Täuschung]

wow. are these supposed to be doves? so cool!

 

[IceAndDark]

wow. are these supposed to be doves? so cool!

haha.. Its owl not doves

 

[Täuschung]

haha.. Its owl not doves

ooppps!! sorry! how many revision did you had before u get to your ideal setting?

 

[fir3bon3]

Time to do some sharing

oh gosh~! this looks really really interesting! She told you she likes this design?

 

[IceAndDark]

ooppps!! sorry! how many revision did you had before u get to your ideal setting?

1 time jackpot already

 

[IceAndDark]

oh gosh~! this looks really really interesting! She told you she likes this design?

Nope.. It's all planned secretly, she like owls

 

[brightside]

Just dropped by White Dwarf today. Customer service is really good. Sam and Ong are both the owners of WD and they took their time to explain to me the same aspects to watch out for when purchasing a diamond. I've also been to JP and I can say that the service is really on par.

In terms of Diamonds, I'm probably leaning towards White Dwarf because I'm able to get an Ideal cut 0.9ct F VS2 there at 8k. ASET scope, Ideal scope and H&A scopes all very nice too.

Only downside at WD is that can't pay with CC so you don't get to use rebates

 

[dnsfpl]

is this diamond worth considering?

0.77ct G VVS2, whats a fair value for this diamond?