Proposal Ring - Part 3

[Mythbustersss]

Hi I am new here and stumbled onto this thread while searching reading up on diamonds.

I would like to dispel some myths around here (from the knowledge given to me by my uncle during my process of choosing a diamond).

I almost bought a loose diamond online from James Allen before my mum suggested me to look for my uncle. I shared with him the diamond I choose and he dispelled some myths for me and choose a diamond for me too.

I took my pick based on two things i learnt here.

HCA score and of course the GIA grading.

My uncle laughed at the idea of HCA.

I don't know how to explain it but basically, if you think that anything below a score of two is bad, think again.

If I am looking for a diamond with very good fire over white, chances are, i will not be able to find it or I may find one 'good one if I base it on HCA score.

Fire requires the diamond to be cut higher, and usually higher than 41 pavilion angle.

Guess whay if you key in 41 degree angle into hca score? It will say that your diamond is not ideal.

Hca averages the cuts into a single digit.

Imagine if 8 facets of the diamond are unevenly cut and not in symmetry, but averages a lower pavilion angle?

How about a perfectly symmetrical cut but at a higher angle to display more fire?

Diamond has so many facets that judging it through a rounded and averaged figure is a bad bad move.

Don't depend on calculator.

Trust a jeweller and the angles given to you on the GIA cert.

Want a diamond with more white? Choose a less steep angle with a smaller face.

Want one with more fire? Choose one with steeper angle and wider face.

But most importantly, choose one where by the angles are symmetrical.

*unpopular opinion as I considered JP reading the whole thread previously.

My uncle said JP gives you good value, but they are making good profit.

You can find much better value if you know what you are looking for.

 

[Miltah]

HCA score and of course the GIA grading.

If I am looking for a diamond with very good fire over white, chances are, i will not be able to find it or I may find one 'good one if I base it on HCA score.

Fire requires the diamond to be cut higher, and usually higher than 41 pavilion angle

Trust a jeweller and the angles given to you on the GIA cert.

Want a diamond with more white? Choose a less steep angle with a smaller face.

Want one with more fire? Choose one with steeper angle and wider face.

My uncle said JP gives you good value, but they are making good profit.

You can find much better value if you know what you are looking for.

Firstly I dun actually use the HCA tool .. I know what I’m looking for and the HCA is only to confirm my selection
Secondly, I dun trust the jeweller, I only trust the GIA report
Thirdly, you indicated that JP gives u good value but surely the guys gotta eat too. U dun expect him to do all the legwork for you yet be cheap. But I agree with your uncle that if u know what u looking for, there can be value outside of JP

Yet, I have doubts about your uncles advice.
The pavilion angles and fire you speak of are indicative of perhaps your uncles time of Old European Cuts (OEC) which were probably still being cut till the 1940s before they were dominated by ideal cuts.
OEC were known for their fire, kinda like the rainbow reflection when light hits the diamond. The pavilion angles of OEC were often more than 41degrees but the table were often small 40-50% (not wide face as your uncle suggest)

Maybe you can look up Tolkowsky. He basically did the experiment in the 1920s by asking people which diamond appealed more to them. N based on his feedback on what people perceive as nice, he come up with with ideal cut specs.. this was later modified.

Even with a GEMEX report that grades light performance, that tells you excellence with brillianace, scintillation and fire, you actually do not ‘get’ all 3. Technically to fully enhance on 1 aspect, is to compromise on the other 2.

 

[Mythbustersss]

Firstly I dun actually use the HCA tool .. I know what I’m looking for and the HCA is only to confirm my selection
Secondly, I dun trust the jeweller, I only trust the GIA report
Thirdly, you indicated that JP gives u good value but surely the guys gotta eat too. U dun expect him to do all the legwork for you yet be cheap. But I agree with your uncle that if u know what u looking for, there can be value outside of JP

Yet, I have doubts about your uncles advice.
The pavilion angles and fire you speak of are indicative of perhaps your uncles time of Old European Cuts (OEC) which were probably still being cut till the 1940s before they were dominated by ideal cuts.
OEC were known for their fire, kinda like the rainbow reflection when light hits the diamond. The pavilion angles of OEC were often more than 41degrees but the table were often small 40-50% (not wide face as your uncle suggest)

Maybe you can look up Tolkowsky. He basically did the experiment in the 1920s by asking people which diamond appealed more to them. N based on his feedback on what people perceive as nice, he come up with with ideal cut specs.. this was later modified.

Even with a GEMEX report that grades light performance, that tells you excellence with brillianace, scintillation and fire, you actually do not ‘get’ all 3. Technically to fully enhance on 1 aspect, is to compromise on the other 2.

He is quite young is in his 40s and owns an independent shop in town so I think he possible knows what he is saying.

I shared with him this thread and he replied saying that no matter how good the diamond you purchase in terms of whatever metrics, the resale price will probably be bad no matter what score you get.

Apart from major flaws, a solid diamond cut symmetrically will fetch the better value because marketing sells, but without marketing, symmetry, ratio and cuts trumps.

Edit: I don't know what he meant by marketing.

 

[Miltah]

Apart from major flaws, a solid diamond cut symmetrically will fetch the better value because marketing sells, but without marketing, symmetry, ratio and cuts trumps.
.

As you have said, cut n symmetry trumps. If you went the James Allen route, there’s less info on cut n symmetry. There are many other online superideal vendors such as Whiteflash, Brian Gavin and HP diamond, where u will get symmetry data( with idealscope) and cut data (with ASET scope info)
If u went with your uncle, I’m sure he will give u a good deal, we can only help with assessing the GIA report...you can see if u can get hold of an idealscope n Aset scope to assess the rest

 

[cyl1987]

If you dun mind purchasing from overseas, u can try Etsy for some unique designs

The price in Etsy is high and waiting time is long.. still searching if singapore sells unique design ring boxes...

Sent from Samsung SM-N950F using GAGT

 

[Miltah]

The price in Etsy is high and waiting time is long.. still searching if singapore sells unique design ring boxes...

Sent from Samsung SM-N950F using GAGT

U tried TaoBao?
Maybe others can help with locally available ones...

 

[Zitxdr]

Hi,

Going to go for engagement ring.
Lady likes very simple ring design white gold.

Budget 3k, can get 0.4 to 0.5 carat ideal ?

Shop recommendations? I saw JP but as I need simple design...

Thanks

 

[KinoChoco]

Hi I am new here and stumbled onto this thread while searching reading up on diamonds.

I would like to dispel some myths around here (from the knowledge given to me by my uncle during my process of choosing a diamond).

I almost bought a loose diamond online from James Allen before my mum suggested me to look for my uncle. I shared with him the diamond I choose and he dispelled some myths for me and choose a diamond for me too.

I took my pick based on two things i learnt here.

HCA score and of course the GIA grading.

My uncle laughed at the idea of HCA.

I don't know how to explain it but basically, if you think that anything below a score of two is bad, think again.

If I am looking for a diamond with very good fire over white, chances are, i will not be able to find it or I may find one 'good one if I base it on HCA score.

Fire requires the diamond to be cut higher, and usually higher than 41 pavilion angle.

Guess whay if you key in 41 degree angle into hca score? It will say that your diamond is not ideal.

Hca averages the cuts into a single digit.

Imagine if 8 facets of the diamond are unevenly cut and not in symmetry, but averages a lower pavilion angle?

How about a perfectly symmetrical cut but at a higher angle to display more fire?

Diamond has so many facets that judging it through a rounded and averaged figure is a bad bad move.

Don't depend on calculator.

Trust a jeweller and the angles given to you on the GIA cert.

Want a diamond with more white? Choose a less steep angle with a smaller face.

Want one with more fire? Choose one with steeper angle and wider face.

But most importantly, choose one where by the angles are symmetrical.

*unpopular opinion as I considered JP reading the whole thread previously.

My uncle said JP gives you good value, but they are making good profit.

You can find much better value if you know what you are looking for.

I stopped reading after:-
Join Date: Jan 2019
Post: 1
‘Uncle’
‘Trust jeweller’

Pretty sure what’s coming next....

 

[Miltah]

I stopped reading after:-
Join Date: Jan 2019
Post: 1
‘Uncle’
‘Trust jeweller’

Pretty sure what’s coming next....

Lol, I also started my first post here leh
I’m sure there are genuine cases

 

[Miltah]

Fire requires the diamond to be cut higher, and usually higher than 41 pavilion angle.

Want one with more fire? Choose one with steeper angle and wider face.

Here’s a comparison of 2 diamonds that you wanted.
A ideal cut vs a steep pavilion angle of 41.2 and large table of 59.7%
It’s one of the few combos or outliers with exceptional fire over the ideal
But such examples are rare....

https://cutwise.com/compare/diamond-colorless?id%5B%5D=25549&id%5B%5D=26035

 

[Alvincit]

imgur.com/B8HtOaS
imgur.com/YGBhele
imgur.com/CkF4F7L
imgur.com/7JbB3TX

Hi, can anyone help to comment on the scopes? (need help to post images)
SIC, 0.66c, D, VS2 $6150 excluding setting

 

[Draculav]

Hi I am new here and stumbled onto this thread while searching reading up on diamonds.

I would like to dispel some myths around here (from the knowledge given to me by my uncle during my process of choosing a diamond).

I almost bought a loose diamond online from James Allen before my mum suggested me to look for my uncle. I shared with him the diamond I choose and he dispelled some myths for me and choose a diamond for me too.

I took my pick based on two things i learnt here.

HCA score and of course the GIA grading.

My uncle laughed at the idea of HCA.

I don't know how to explain it but basically, if you think that anything below a score of two is bad, think again.

If I am looking for a diamond with very good fire over white, chances are, i will not be able to find it or I may find one 'good one if I base it on HCA score.

Fire requires the diamond to be cut higher, and usually higher than 41 pavilion angle.

Guess whay if you key in 41 degree angle into hca score? It will say that your diamond is not ideal.

Hca averages the cuts into a single digit.

Imagine if 8 facets of the diamond are unevenly cut and not in symmetry, but averages a lower pavilion angle?

How about a perfectly symmetrical cut but at a higher angle to display more fire?

Diamond has so many facets that judging it through a rounded and averaged figure is a bad bad move.

Don't depend on calculator.

Trust a jeweller and the angles given to you on the GIA cert.

Want a diamond with more white? Choose a less steep angle with a smaller face.

Want one with more fire? Choose one with steeper angle and wider face.

But most importantly, choose one where by the angles are symmetrical.

*unpopular opinion as I considered JP reading the whole thread previously.

My uncle said JP gives you good value, but they are making good profit.

You can find much better value if you know what you are looking for.

HCA was never a tool to choose a diamond to begin with. Its only for weeding out the bad proportion ones. The inventor already stated on the website on the limitation and that you should use the scopes after.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca/

''The Holloway Cut Adviser (U.S. Patent 7,251,619) is a rejection tool to help you narrow your search for only round diamonds potential Light Return, Fire, Scintillation and Spread based (only) on the proportion information from a grading report. HCA does not use symmetry, polish and minor facets info.''

''When you have narrowed your search to a few candidates I suggest you request Ideal-Scope images, or buy your own Ideal-scope from my company www.Ideal-Scope.com. ''

 

[Draculav]

Lol, I also started my first post here leh
I’m sure there are genuine cases

Haha, if you been here long enough, you can roughly tell the genuine and fake ones. The story and pattern is the same.

 

[xbearbishopx]

Just collected my ring guys all in all a very good experience in JP !

cant wait for the big day to come haha!

thank you everyone for ur help and contribution

 

[Lydia.Tan]

imgur.com/B8HtOaS
imgur.com/YGBhele
imgur.com/CkF4F7L
imgur.com/7JbB3TX

Hi, can anyone help to comment on the scopes? (need help to post images)
SIC, 0.66c, D, VS2 $6150 excluding setting

They are good. JP Super ideals are already the best of the best. The rest is just see what size, color and clarity you want. Your 0.6++ size is quite rare too!

 

[Lydia.Tan]

Just collected my ring guys all in all a very good experience in JP !

cant wait for the big day to come haha!

thank you everyone for ur help and contribution

Congratulations!! I remember seeing your ring! You went for the more detailed version in the end? Very pretty!

 

[xbearbishopx]

Congratulations!! I remember seeing your ring! You went for the more detailed version in the end? Very pretty!

haha yea :x really had a super bad headache when making my decision and locking it in haha! but imho, it looks much better when seeing the ring in person

 

[xiaosen]

0.43 D vs1 is 3050 Ok for this spec? Is from jann Paul.

 

[H0cusP0cus]

At tht size should down to G color VS2 can get you 0.45-0.46.

But if D color is a must, 3050 is a decent price.

0.43 D vs1 is 3050 Ok for this spec? Is from jann Paul.

 

[exoticeclair]

This is from JP?

Yes, from JP. Just went down today and decided to go ahead and put down deposit on the ideal 0.41c. Also received the scope images, I personally feel quite happy with them and the appearance.

Not as perfect as a super ideal but generally quite satisfied with the appearance in both light and shadows and was nearly (if not the same) similar quality to the super ideal (spent about 1h looking at it before finally deciding to go ahead)