Proposal Ring - Part 3

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hithere1

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The G VS2 is value combo. Post the scopes when you get it!

Any 0.9+ JP SIC is an insta-buy

Indeed, after reading through the thread, I agree that G VS2 is the best bang for buck combo if looking at the diamond with a naked/average eye

Care to elaborate why 0.9+ JP SIC is an insta-buy?

I went down to JP today and was quoted $9100 for a 0.80ct F VS1 without setting. Why the price difference so much? :(

As above, because you're paying for better colour and clarity, but I can't really tell them apart when I look at it
 

niokma

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Indeed, after reading through the thread, I agree that G VS2 is the best bang for buck combo if looking at the diamond with a naked/average eye

Care to elaborate why 0.9+ JP SIC is an insta-buy?



As above, because you're paying for better colour and clarity, but I can't really tell them apart when I look at it

Lowest colour and clarity for 0.8s available already, there was a 0.81 but E and VS1, $9600 haha

And they quoted me $1200 for the same setting you shared just now too. Wondering if there’s different prices quotes by different SAs.

Now I’m thinking if I should wait for a better stone lol
 

condovshdb

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Lowest colour and clarity for 0.8s available already, there was a 0.81 but E and VS1, $9600 haha

And they quoted me $1200 for the same setting you shared just now too. Wondering if there’s different prices quotes by different SAs.

Now I’m thinking if I should wait for a better stone lol

i was quoted $1.2k for a similar setting as well
you're not alone
 

helloiask

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Hi folks. I also went over to JP and finished a session with Sam. With my budget, we narrowed down my options to these 2 stones. I initially wanted to consider only SIC, but I think the ideal cut presented has almost the same performance (at least in my eyes).

I tried my best to look under scope and different lighting conditions, but I can’t tell the difference really

Details and scope images are listed below. I am more inclined to get the IC for better size and colour, but would like to get other's input first.
 

helloiask

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Hi folks. I also went over to JP and finished a session with Sam. With my budget, we narrowed down my options to these 2 stones. I initially wanted to consider only SIC, but I think the ideal cut presented has almost the same performance (at least in my eyes).

I tried my best to look under scope and different lighting conditions, but I can’t tell the difference really

Details and scope images are listed below. I am more inclined to get the IC for better size and colour, but would like to get other's input first.

Thanks in advance for your pointers. From what I understand there is a slight imperfection in the H&A that is why the 2nd stone is not qualified as SIC.

0.71 E VVS2 (SIC) - $7,150
GIA 6331735709
HCA 0.6






0.75 D VS1 (ideal) - $6,800
GIA 6292935222
HCA 0.8




 
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condovshdb

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Hi folks. I also went over to JP and finished a session with Sam. With my budget, we narrowed down my options to these 2 stones. I initially wanted to consider only SIC, but I think the ideal cut presented has almost the same performance (at least in my eyes).

I tried my best to look under scope and different lighting conditions, but I can’t tell the difference really

Details and scope images are listed below. I am more inclined to get the IC for better size and colour, but would like to get other's input first.

personally, i would drop the colour to F or G and get a larger stone
 

helloiask

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i am also open to do that, but the next size available is the 0.8 SIC priced at 9,100 (I think the same piece mentioned few posts above).

That is already above my budget unfortunately
 

1000smiles

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Thanks in advance for your pointers. From what I understand there is a slight imperfection in the H&A that is why the 2nd stone is not qualified as SIC.

0.71 E VVS2 (SIC) - $7,150
GIA 6331735709
HCA 0.6






0.75 D VS1 (ideal) - $6,800
GIA 6292935222
HCA 0.8





Despite JP's Ideals being better than the general Ideals out there, they are still classified Ideal cut for a reason. As far as I know from Casey, their SICs are extremely strict for a reason. Slight misalignments in Ideals in actuality means misalignment in the facets aka even though you cant tell much of a difference face up (besides symmetry), light performance is compromised when the diamond is tilted at different angles.
This is something you'll probably notice over time when comparing SIC and Ideal because you're wearing a diamond ring which is always moving.

My suggestion is to stick with SIC and have no regrets. But maybe drop on the clarity.
 

Miltah

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Lowest colour and clarity for 0.8s available already, there was a 0.81 but E and VS1, $9600 haha

Now I’m thinking if I should wait for a better stone lol

That’s the only limitation of a store vs online
U may not get best color and clarity combo that u want so u have to plan early to wait for new stock.
 

Miltah

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My suggestion is to stick with SIC and have no regrets. But maybe drop on the clarity.

There’s no perfect angles or number, let alone any definition of SIC. You best gauges are scopes.

Here are 6 stones of which only 3 are SIC.
Would slight misalignment bother u? That is if u can even spot them

3Lc6ks4.jpg
 

helloiask

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Yes, the buyback and additional maintenance services for a JP SIC is a consideration too.

But tbh, my primary objective is to get the biggest stone with top quality that fits budget. Don't want to exceed it for something me and my partner cannot see :)

My question with the IC is are there any major flows visible from the scope images? If somebody can point them out that would be really helpful to me.

Is this a flaw?

 

condovshdb

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There’s no perfect angles or number, let alone any definition of SIC. You best gauges are scopes.

Here are 6 stones of which only 3 are SIC.
Would slight misalignment bother u? That is if u can even spot them

3Lc6ks4.jpg


makes me wonder if i should downgrade from SIC to Ideal to get a heavier stone :s13:
 

Miltah

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Yes, the buyback and additional maintenance services for a JP SIC is a consideration too.

But tbh, my primary objective is to get the biggest stone with top quality that fits budget. Don't want to exceed it for something me and my partner cannot see :)

My question with the IC is are there any major flows visible from the scope images? If somebody can point them out that would be really helpful to me.

Is this a flaw?


U can’t judge coloration with a heart scope.
Only symmetry of which it is not perfect.
N there are some minor clefts or splits in the heart

But once mounted. U will never see the hearts anymore
 

Miltah

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makes me wonder if i should downgrade from SIC to Ideal to get a heavier stone :s13:

There’s nothing wrong with wanting the best of the best. But u need to consider your priorities.
First thing pple notice first is the size. They won’t ask u if it’s a SIC or IC
 

condovshdb

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There’s nothing wrong with wanting the best of the best. But u need to consider your priorities.
First thing pple notice first is the size

true
i did notice that my 1ct appeared smaller on a side diamond setting vs plain band

another trip to JP is in order
 

Miltah

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true
i did notice that my 1ct appeared smaller on a side diamond setting vs plain band

another trip to JP is in order

That’s true. The setting makes a big difference.
U could opt for a tapered ring with side stones...
But think abt the wedding band too. I think 2 rings with small diamonds are an overkill so I opted for an eternity type wedding band and single solataire ring

A single solitaire coupled with a tapered ring will make the stone stand out
 

helloiask

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Thank you, I went to JP again and got a 0.72 E VS2 SIC offered at 6,900 :) This makes my decision easier now
 

1000smiles

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There’s no perfect angles or number, let alone any definition of SIC. You best gauges are scopes.

Here are 6 stones of which only 3 are SIC.
Would slight misalignment bother u? That is if u can even spot them

3Lc6ks4.jpg

By JP SIC standards, 2 and 6 is out. It's not SIC.
5 is questionable.. but cant see the full picture.
1, 3 and 4 are SICs unless there is more info from the cropped out images.

I think ppl are misunderstanding the purpose of the Aset.
What you see as a straight line or example, bezel leakages, even if it's slightly larger than other areas, when you tilt your diamond, do you think that straight line gap will remain the same width?
At different angles when viewing your actual diamond, these so called small leakage areas or lines, will expand the more you tilt your diamond. Similarly, other issues like symmetrical errors, uneven girdles (painting/digging) are all amplified and is much more amplified the more you tilt the diamond. When you use the Aset, small problems looks like its small because it's only on face up view like the pictures we see. But it will all be magnified at tilts or when moving your ring.

Have to agree and disagree on some of your points.

I'm an old schoolmate and customer of JP (through casey) but I did speak with Paul a long time ago, he's the one who is the most technical amongst the JP partners.
I hope I’m not doing them any wrong by stating so but as of what I remember when we did speak.

"There’s no perfect angles or number,"

True and not true. Diamonds are evaluated under mainly 2 lighting sources, one that you can see your diamond white with contrasts, the other that you can see fire and scintillation.
Eg. A higher crown would have a better performance under a spotlight, but suffer with contrast/leakage under white lights.
The true is also for the reverse. A lower crown will have better performance under white light but suffers under spotlight. The question is, how to find the balance of both? (via proportions, or what we all use is the HCA).

Definition of SIC
This I agree with you, James Allen and many other brands anyhow label.. even VG cuts/ obviously bad cuts or whatever as Super ideals. It's just how strict they are. Out of all, JP's standards are definitely one of the highest if not the highest, which is why everyone recommends them.

What defines JP's SIC?
This we probably will never know exactly, but what I can share (I hope this is not confidential, and if so I will remove my post if it is). As conversed with paul before, they consider in their SIC standards:
> HCA
> Color - they dont take lower end spectrum of any color, e.g: F- G- etc. only the higher end spectrum. They also don’t accept any other hue other than yellow.
> Clarity- most of you should know I guess, if you went for their education course.
> Scope analysis - light return/ facet alignment or aka symmetry needs to be top notch. Those spikes you see around the corners, degree of painting digging etc. lower girdle facets in relation to stars lengths must be considered (bezel leakage would be considered here also)
Fluorescence none- they don’t take any risk at all for this and there were much more that I don’t remember, and if I do I’m not sure if it is confidential.

What makes a JP's Ideal cut?
This we all do not know, or rather, I dont. But we do know there are definitely symmetrical errors etc etc. Are all those other factors applied above in their SIC here? I’m not sure. JP's ideal though, is still very high in standard no doubt.

"You best gauges are scopes"
Yes and no. If small misalignments on the arrows/girdles/hotspots(stars) inner hotspots all keep adding up, it would definitely impact a diamond's beauty for sure. Consider again diamonds are not seen just in a white light, but in a spot light.
Here’s the problem, that the experts in Pricescope agrees as well. Scope photos are all analyzed purely face up. Small misalignments may look "unimportant" in face up value in scopes. But in actuality, and I think we fail to see the whole point of this:

That are our diamond rings only seen from face up? Parallel eye down to the diamond? Do we stare are it permanently just like that? When showing off a diamond ring we don’t say, hey look at my diamond only from face up, obviously.
And these slight misalignments, how much do you think it would affect
1. The diamond performance under 2 lighting environments
2. When the diamond is tilted, which it will, how much bezel leakage is seen from that tilt due to misalignments? Would the middle area start leaking light at different areas like the corners under the table? Why do my girdles not look as bright? (overly painted ->refer to JP's newest video on utube)

For this reason, you must ultimately ask yourself if you want the best of the best, or potentially problems that you or your wife may see underperforming as time goes by. When you start noticing why does this not look bright from this angle? etc. That’s the real question imo when considering JP SIC vs JP Ideal. (everyone is different in terms of whether you can notice these differences or not irl and not just scopes alone. Not all our eyes are as sharp or our ages differ affecting our sight. One's diamond ring is not only for you and hers to see but others as well).
 

Miltah

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I would have to disagree with u on some points. A SIC is cut for its uniformity and optimal light return. The face up view and uniformity is a gauge of a stones performance at all angles
So what do u expect to see when tilted?

Here’s an actual study of a simulated stone and actual stone. Would a 15degree tilt be a good gauge? How would we assess it?

YPTHm7a.jpg


There’s no perfect angles and numbers
Yet we know jp sic heavily picks these numbers

AgsjEFv.jpg


But if we went with 34.5 and 40.8, then we have a HOH with the same numbers that show poor symmetry and light leakage

Z7Ihhgr.jpg


So where does that leave us? Back to scopes as the best objective measure.

What defines JP SIC
Purely cut! Color does not define cut. Yet what if your other half wants yellow gold and u actually dun mind or can’t pick out H color?
Neither does clarity define cut. These are just standards JP chooses to stick by

So u need to ask yourself... are those minor imperfections (of a well cut HOH) easily picked up? Would pple notice cut or size first? Unless u have a side by side view of a poorly cut stone. Put those 6 side by side irl, I would say it’s hard to pick them out.
N frankly if u dun clean your ring every time, I guarantee it’s dull as shxx even under store lighting
 

condovshdb

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interesting post, thanks for sharing

is the yellow tint the reason why i can see yellow when F and G stones are placed in front of a white background in the JP store?
 
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