PRUDENTIAL SAVINGS SAGA

[akwl88]

Most people don't reAlly understand how riders work unless they willing to spend sometime and really look through their policy

Your wording makes it seems like endowment without riders are bad too.
But I can tell you most endowment without riders, able to beat term + Ssb combo.

got any endowment policies provide 500k coverage?

can sic?

 

[soneat]

huh? I'm not talking about WL here wor.
I'm talking about endowment. But even WL can be put with that disclaimer up front and big big.

the long term disclaimer, no need to put 20 years or 30 years.

And you are missing the point. It's not about which policy is good or bad. It's about telling all clients that long term doesn't equal profits.

Ok noted. Talking only about endowment here.

Endowment product wise, from what's available in the market right now, nothing entice me at all.

But I will always continue to keep a lookout because who knows ....maybe the Income Capital Plus or UOB Life Guaranteed Rewards will reborn in years to come. LOL....

 

[OngHuatHuat]

You are always at the extreme side, like insurance products are all bad.
For me, I just think endowment able to beat Ssb + term combo, but it doesn't mean I think endowment is a good product.

got any endowment policies provide 500k coverage?

can sic?

 

[akwl88]

You are always at the extreme side, like insurance products are all bad.
For me, I just think endowment able to beat Ssb + term combo, but it doesn't mean I think endowment is a good product.

I am not extreme

Pls dont anyhow quote say i think ALL insurance products are bad

I am an strong advocate for term and hosp plans

I dont mix insurance with investment

 

[OngHuatHuat]

So you know how much hospitilisation and term cost when you get older?

I am not extreme

Pls dont anyhow quote say i think ALL insurance products are bad

I am an strong advocate for term and hosp plans

I dont mix insurance with investment

 

[akwl88]

So you know how much hospitilisation and term cost when you get older?

U mean premiums?

 

[xdemolicx]

Akw notch bery extreme rah but sumtimes akw kor kor ish think from his angle nia.

Extreme n toxic one chiu haven see nia rike e apple sumthing. Tat kind worse thn agents jitao ask ppl cancel all insurance

You are always at the extreme side, like insurance products are all bad.
For me, I just think endowment able to beat Ssb + term combo, but it doesn't mean I think endowment is a good product.

 

[Ilovegreenbeansoup]

One person should at least have shield and death ci and tpd cover

 

[akwl88]

I am not extreme

Pls dont anyhow quote say i think ALL insurance products are bad

I am an strong advocate for term and hosp plans

I dont mix insurance with investment

upz for demonic gor gor

 

[Bigoya]

My point is being a lot of people underestimate the regular premium payable for term and fail to acknowledge most people die after 65 years old. In fact, the median now is around 80 year old, most people dying age will concentration around the mean or median. It kind of follow normal distribution curve for a decent size population.

Your argument is term very cheap up to 65 years old and everyone should get term for the huge protection, but the problem is you only look at it using dollar to dollar comparison numerically.
There is a very important factor that you overlook: how our body function.

As people gets older, higher tendency for cells to mutate or getting critical illness, that is the point you can claim for your critical illness coverage. Statiscally, most people get this after 65 years old, which means after your so called term plan expires.
Insurers are not stupid, there is a reason why they price their term up till 65 years old so cheap.

You may argue that if you die after 65 years old, nothing to be worried already, but most people don't just die like that. There is a very long dragging period between they get that illness and they actually die. You can argue you get medical insurance enough already, but once you get that critical illness, you will need someone to care for you too. And not to forget, medical insurance premium tend to rise exponentially as you age. Now you see the premium so cheap, that is because you are not paying for your parents. I am paying for my parents, so I can really feel the pain, but no choice, I have to get them covered.

If you get term up to 65 years old, most likely you won't get the chance to activate it at all. I believe insurers have the data on hand but they don't reveal only. If you get term up to 99 years old or even 70 years old, the premium will rise a lot. So how? Just suicide?

No idea how many times the moon came out but it seems the ak-w-in saga is still on going...

I could have already lost track of where the train is heading, but just in case I'm not too far off, and since I have some actual quotations, let me present the table and I hope things could self-clarify,

Spoiler

BTIR vs WL. Die at 60.

BTIR vs WL. Die at 68.

BTIR vs WL. Die at 80.

 

[Bigoya]

You are missing the point.
It's 20+ years for breaking-even. It's not even early redemption here.

Also, putting simple words big big on first page is far more effective than a whole page of small detailed and complicated explanation. It's so complicated that even you missed my point to hi-light and bold the wrong thing to show here.

Seems like if you are the head of an insurance company, your policy booklets would have the dimension of Straits Times newspaper and the thickness of an old telephone book.

Liddat pass?

Spoiler

Buying this long term policy may result in no gain at all or losses.
This is not an insurance, it neither pay out upon your disability or diagnosis of critical illnesses, nor does it reimburse your outpatient medical treatment and hospitalisation cost.
Please read and understand the details within for at least 10 times before purchasing this policy.
We are not accountable for your negligence resulting in any form of monetary losses.
Buy it at your own risk.
You have been warned.

 

[Perisher]

Seems like if you are the head of an insurance company, your policy booklets would have the dimension of Straits Times newspaper and the thickness of an old telephone book.

Liddat pass?

Spoiler

Buying this long term policy may result in no gain at all or losses.
This is not an insurance, it neither pay out upon your disability or diagnosis of critical illnesses, nor does it reimburse your outpatient medical treatment and hospitalisation cost.
Please read and understand the details within for at least 10 times before purchasing this policy.
We are not accountable for your negligence resulting in any form of monetary losses.
Buy it at your own risk.
You have been warned.

Stop trolling.

Simple big words on first page instead of lengthy detailed explanation such as yours that is filled with nonsense would have saved most controversies.

Consider this a warning.

 

[akwl88]

No idea how many times the moon came out but it seems the ak-w-in saga is still on going...

I could have already lost track of where the train is heading, but just in case I'm not too far off, and since I have some actual quotations, let me present the table and I hope things could self-clarify,

Spoiler

BTIR vs WL. Die at 60.

BTIR vs WL. Die at 68.

BTIR vs WL. Die at 80.

Haha ur shld include die at age 30, 40, 50 also for a more detailed comparisons

Seems like some pple believe they are immortal

Lol

 

[doody_]

Not another life vs term thread........

It's all a betting game. Those buying life prefer the guaranteed returns when they die. Those buying term prefer the non guaranteed returns from self investment. No right or wrong la...

 

[akwl88]

Not another life vs term thread........

It's all a betting game. Those buying life prefer the guaranteed returns when they die. Those buying term prefer the non guaranteed returns from self investment. No right or wrong la...

Life has guaranteed and non guaranteed returns

 

[Mecisteus]

Yes correct, you buy term with a lot of coverage, but you die at age 66, you get nothing but just non stop funding insurer expenses.

If you want to get term cover up to 70 years old, it will be super expensive, may even be more expensive than certain limited pay whole life.
You thought insurer stupid by pricing term up to 65 years old cheap? That is just because most people die after 65 years old not before that.

Think!!!!!

Since most people die after 65 years old, you think insurance companies are stupid to pay out free money to non-term policyholders?

Where do you think they get the money from?

Insurance companies already worked out their numbers. They know the life expectancy of policyholders, the expected future payouts and thus, price the recurrent premiums to factor time value of money.

For the case of a WL insurance, you are paying a lot of premiums upfront. Your cost of insurance is a small portion and the remaining premiums are pooled and invested for your future coverage/payouts ie after 65 years.

In general, all policyholders (term and WL) will lose money. Insurance companies will not lose money in the long run.

If there are too much payouts, insurance companies will not absorb those losses. To cover those losses, insurance companies have to raise premiums or cut bonuses (participating policies to watch out).

Now comes to the pooling part and investment by fund managers. Statistics have shown, most fund managers lose money. They can't even beat the index.

So do you think your excess premiums are in the good hands of the insurance companies? After paying excessive fund managers fees, do you think policyholders can get good returns on their excess premiums? If you say YES to these questions, then go ahead and buy their participating policies.

Insurance companies have to make sure their companies are profitable to answer to shareholders. They don't give a hoot to policyholders.

So moral of the story is, pay less premiums to the insurance companies, buy only the necessary protections that you need and invest/save yourselves.

 

[maruikun]

Seems like if you are the head of an insurance company, your policy booklets would have the dimension of Straits Times newspaper and the thickness of an old telephone book.

Liddat pass?

Spoiler

Buying this long term policy may result in no gain at all or losses.
This is not an insurance, it neither pay out upon your disability or diagnosis of critical illnesses, nor does it reimburse your outpatient medical treatment and hospitalisation cost.
Please read and understand the details within for at least 10 times before purchasing this policy.
We are not accountable for your negligence resulting in any form of monetary losses.
Buy it at your own risk.
You have been warned.

How much does it cost the company to print additional 1 or 2 pages of risk clauses? I think these 1 or 2 pages is definitely more important than 4-5 pages of BI which may or may not materialize. And these 1 or 2 pages of black and white agreement can lessen alot of unnecessary disputes and resources. I don't think any insurers will want to incur additional expenses on legal cases as well as repair their tarnished image because of black sheeps in their company.

Perhaps you can carry out a street survey with door gifts to ask the general public (those who own endowment plan) if they know their endowment policy may results in no gain at all or losses because of the participating fund. And also ask them if they know what the protection riders can have impact on their policy returns. The answer is pretty straightforward.

 

[Perisher]

How much does it cost the company to print additional 1 or 2 pages of risk clauses? I think these 1 or 2 pages is definitely more important than 4-5 pages of BI which may or may not materialize. And these 1 or 2 pages of black and white agreement can lessen alot of unnecessary disputes and resources. I don't think any insurers will want to incur additional expenses on legal cases as well as repair their tarnished image because of black sheeps in their company.

Perhaps you can carry out a street survey with door gifts to ask the general public (those who own endowment plan) if they know their endowment policy may results in no gain at all or losses because of the participating fund. And also ask them if they know what the protection riders can have impact on their policy returns. The answer is pretty straightforward.

According to my random survey of the edmw's crowd, most would rather not choose endowment if those few simple words are put upfront to them. Hope to see more replies but hard.
It's not about if endowment is good as compare to others, it's about avoiding the controversies surrounding these policies. If one ask any random stranger of all the insurance policies they bought, most probably only understand the bare surface of it. And yet many agents expect explaining a few times will mean everyone who signs the policy understands everything?

The details of any policies should be discussed with the agents but simple things that matters to most should be upfront. Especially for policies that claims to be 'wealth accumulation' policies. Getting back at break-even or losses is one of if not the most important part. It will help to avoid lots and lots of controversies over what agents say or what clients understand.

Bigoya's point of printing even more words to warn even more stuff to the point of saying it's not insurance is just
Not sure the purpose of doing that.

 

[Bigoya]

Haha ur shld include die at age 30, 40, 50 also for a more detailed comparisons

Seems like some pple believe they are immortal

Lol

Extrapolate urself

 

[Bigoya]

Stop trolling.

Simple big words on first page instead of lengthy detailed explanation such as yours that is filled with nonsense would have saved most controversies.

Consider this a warning.

Totally not trolling although it seems pretty much like it.

Today we can hilight big big about the potential losses because this is the current concern. But it the future another saga come say agent told him can claim but end up insurer say cannot claim then how?

Then u will also come out with a 2nd paragraph of big big words which eventually wouldda look something like mine.

Don't trust agent's words alone, the entire policy have important stuff which no particular detail is more important than the otther, every point has its significance. You did recommand agent to go through every line of the product summary and BI to the client too instead of picking points.