Roboadvisor: Stashaway vs Syfe

[lingalong]

Anyone heard of Kristal AI? Seems that they are doing pretty well and supported by quite reknowned backers

 

[assiak71]

Anyone heard of Kristal AI? Seems that they are doing pretty well and supported by quite reknowned backers

Got more info about their portfolio? Seems rojak to me

 

[s0crates]

Robos generally are not for me, you are right. I am a DIY investor. For cpf and srs monies, unfortunately, there are investment restrictions so I am a lot more inclined to use robos for these monies......

I think lay people still have a right for a comprehensive review, or at least some level of critical analysis on the platforms. Those who bother to find criticism or less well publicised benefits should know it. Especially on hardwarezone.

Just sharing...... Because I care about details and know how to dig. If I am wrong please feel free to share!!!!

Clearly if you're this meticulous about your returns, robos aren't for you. Why can't people seem to get that? Robos are for layman investors to get their feet wet since it offers decent returns, relative to the almost no effort or knowledge required on their end.

 

[s0crates]

Strange. Why do you want overweigh sg equities?

I can understand the dimensional concern though, but I see it as a hedge to my market cap index investing hehe. Diversification!!!

Basic criteria (not in any order)
- robo fee <= 0.4%
- fixed income sgd-hedged
- equities globally diversified and UCITS obviously
- low-cost funds obviously

Second level criteria (not in any order)
- overweigh sg equities
- no heavy value tilt

Endowus srs comes closest. But what i dont like is its valuey dimensional world equity fund. It could continue to underperform a market cap fund for years

 

[assiak71]

Strange. Why do you want overweigh sg equities?

I can understand the dimensional concern though, but I see it as a hedge to my market cap index investing hehe. Diversification!!!

I dont think its strange. Its just like the 3 fund portfolio, where one has a SG equities fund. But this is secondary.

On dfa, i think just do a search and you can find similar articles
https://dfavsvanguard.com/2019/01/01/dfa-13-years-of-underperformance/

 

[assiak71]

Anyway if syfe reit portfolio is attractive, might just use their global and reit portfolios

 

[Han Shot First]

They hold 5% in cash. That's 5% drag in performance, and assuming a return of 8% that's a recurring cost of 0.4% in terms of lost returns. God knows how are they going to speculate with the broad mandate given to them

The purpose of the 5% in cash in DBS digiPortfolio is to benefit DBS and definitely not to benefit the investor. DBS needs the cash in the portfolio so that DBS can deduct its management fee of 0.75% p.a. of AUM. This is because DBS chose accumulating LSE listed ETFs.

This problem would not arise if DBS chooses equivalent distributing ETFs instead. (The investment money could be fully invested.) Which it could have. But bottom line is that DBS digiPortfolio is not intended to make money for its investors as its first priority; it is intended to make money (profit) for DBS as the first priority. That is the way banks work.

 

[tangent314]

Maybe that's why we need a RoboShinyThing that does the right thing and deduct the fees from the units being held.

 

[s0crates]

They still deliver decent returns and have a very consistent investment philosophy. Don't get me wrong. I am cost conscious and still prefer my index ETFs on my cash portfolio. But for SRS endowus works fine.

On Sg equities fund, why not pay brokerage fees and DIY? That can be done for cpf, cash and SRS.

I dont think its strange. Its just like the 3 fund portfolio, where one has a SG equities fund. But this is secondary.

On dfa, i think just do a search and you can find similar articles
https://dfavsvanguard.com/2019/01/01/dfa-13-years-of-underperformance/

 

[s0crates]

I think thats just diy interactive brokers hahaha.

Maybe that's why we need a RoboShinyThing that does the right thing and deduct the fees from the units being held.

 

[Han Shot First]

They still deliver decent returns and have a very consistent investment philosophy. Don't get me wrong. I am cost conscious and still prefer my index ETFs on my cash portfolio. But for SRS endowus works fine.

Any reason(s) why you chose endowus over MoneyOwl for the DFA funds? I believe MoneyOwl also allow SRS for investment similar to endowus (for DFA funds).

 

[Okenba]

Any reason(s) why you chose endowus over MoneyOwl for the DFA funds? I believe MoneyOwl also allow SRS for investment similar to endowus (for DFA funds).

Endowus is cheaper. Their fees for SRS and CPF are more competitive.
They also have better on boarding for SRS. I think for MoneyOwl, you still need to write in.

 

[assiak71]

On Sg equities fund, why not pay brokerage fees and DIY? That can be done for cpf, cash and SRS.

You are a diy-er, maybe thats why you dont understand.

For me i dont rule out paying a small fee to manage everything, including for cash. Then one can really have a hands off approach, as well as easier taking over when one passes away (all investments at 1 robo platform) which is a plus to me if your beneficiary is not financially literate

 

[twosix]

You are a diy-er, maybe thats why you dont understand.

For me i dont rule out paying a small fee to manage everything, including for cash. Then one can really have a hands off approach, as well as easier taking over when one passes away (all investments at 1 robo platform) which is a plus to me if your beneficiary is not financially literate

I am a DIYer, but recently got to know of robo-advisors. I decided to invest a small sum into stashaway to see how it performs.

 

[Gametaku]

Why is it fewer people invest with dbs digiportfolio?

Started using DBS digiportfolio around Jan 1st this year. Digiportfolio has 3 risk level. 2,3 and 4. Applied for risk level 3 but seeing red so far. About $132 loss.

Applied for Stashaway and Syfe around the same time. Both still seeing growth.

 

[assiak71]

Anyway if syfe reit portfolio is attractive, might just use their global and reit portfolios

Hoping the sreit portfolio can complement their global portfolio

 

[Han Shot First]

Endowus is cheaper. Their fees for SRS and CPF are more competitive.
They also have better on boarding for SRS. I think for MoneyOwl, you still need to write in.

Does it make sense to invest in endowus DFA fund using cash (portfolio)?

 

[s0crates]

Seedly Facebook page has a big hooha on stashaway supposedly poor FX conversion. Amanda from stashaway came out and say that they convert only 99% of the funds for investment purposes, keeping 1% for management fees and rebalancing purpose.

Anyone has any idea if stashaway returns include the impact of the cash?

They hold 5% in cash. That's 5% drag in performance, and assuming a return of 8% that's a recurring cost of 0.4% in terms of lost returns. God knows how are they going to speculate with the broad mandate given to them

 

[Okenba]

Does it make sense to invest in endowus DFA fund using cash (portfolio)?

The fees between MoneyOwl and Endowus are much closer for cash. You can also consider the other Robos offering ETFs.

MoneyOwl:
0.65% p.a. advisory/wrap fee;
0.18% p.a. custody/ platform fee;
0.3%-0.4% p.a. fund management expense.

EndowUs:
0.4% (SRS/CPF), 0.6% (Cash)
FUND-LEVEL FEES OF 0.43% TO 0.64%

 

[duststorm]

Endowus have platform fees, right? Correct me if I’m wrong

The fees between MoneyOwl and Endowus are much closer for cash. You can also consider the other Robos offering ETFs.

MoneyOwl:
0.65% p.a. advisory/wrap fee;
0.18% p.a. custody/ platform fee;
0.3%-0.4% p.a. fund management expense.

EndowUs:
0.4% (SRS/CPF), 0.6% (Cash)
FUND-LEVEL FEES OF 0.43% TO 0.64%