Roboadvisor: Stashaway vs Syfe

[huiseh]

There is a syfe reit+ thread
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/m...t-6196988.html

Redirecting you there

Oh ok cool. Thanks!

Posted from PCWX using Pixel 2 XL

 

[assiak71]

So how did these 2 tactical algos do?

 

[blurpandasg2014]

So how did these 2 tactical algos do?

Updated bumps

 

[cweihang]

Does it makes sense to lower our risk for the portfolio given the current market downturn?

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[KinoChoco]

Good time to be entering StashAway now that the market are down. Based on personal experiences of trying StashAway, auto wealth and smartly over the past years, StashAway has the best returns based on same amount (with highest risk allocation option selected) and DCA on the 3 platforms.

Feel free to PM me if you would like to understand more, do use my referral in order for both of us to enjoy 6 months off fees.

https://www.stashaway.sg/referrals/yonghuink5xr

 

[tutonic]

Does it makes sense to lower our risk for the portfolio given the current market downturn?

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It doesn't make sense to do so. Bonds are gaining over the past couple days, so if you lower risk, you're selling part of your equities at a loss, and buying bond ETFs at a premium.

Don't be so affected by short term fluctuations.. When you kanchiong = others' opportunity to make money.

 

[paul02]

It doesn't make sense to do so. Bonds are gaining over the past couple days, so if you lower risk, you're selling part of your equities at a loss, and buying bond ETFs at a premium.

Don't be so affected by short term fluctuations.. When you kanchiong = others' opportunity to make money.

Looks like the market is in downtrend as the virus hits more and more countries. If it keeps going down for the next 6 months, it'll take too long to recover initial deposits no?

 

[tutonic]

Looks like the market is in downtrend as the virus hits more and more countries. If it keeps going down for the next 6 months, it'll take too long to recover initial deposits no?

Most of the big tech firms that I track are all green on Friday's trading day, with some ETFs also in the green. Furthermore, the ETFs that are still in the red, are only about 1-2%. To each his own, I suppose, but I believe the brunt of the virus fears to affect the markets have already passed. It will taper off slightly before going back up.

It is precisely these kinds of situation that I advocate those who use Stashaway to put 70% of their monthly top-up into a 16-20% risk portfolio, and 10% in Income and 20% in a higher risk equity portfolio (30% or 36% depending on what you like). That way, you're not hit as hard when equities tank.

To illustrate, I have 2 test portfolios with about 2k in them. The one in 16% risk is only down $60 right now, while the one with 30% risk is down $164.

 

[huiseh]

Most of the big tech firms that I track are all green on Friday's trading day, with some ETFs also in the green. Furthermore, the ETFs that are still in the red, are only about 1-2%. To each his own, I suppose, but I believe the brunt of the virus fears to affect the markets have already passed. It will taper off slightly before going back up.

It is precisely these kinds of situation that I advocate those who use Stashaway to put 70% of their monthly top-up into a 16-20% risk portfolio, and 10% in Income and 20% in a higher risk equity portfolio (30% or 36% depending on what you like). That way, you're not hit as hard when equities tank.

To illustrate, I have 2 test portfolios with about 2k in them. The one in 16% risk is only down $60 right now, while the one with 30% risk is down $164.

This is interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Do you happen to have the numbers for both the test portfolios prior to the recent drop?

Posted from PCWX using Pixel 2 XL

 

[assiak71]

Has stashaway done any re-optimisation during this wuhan virus period? If no, seems like they have "broader" bands before they make any changes? Which is a good thing as AA is more static.

Whereas syfe seems to have more dynamic changes in their AA? Is this true?

 

[huiseh]

Has stashaway done any re-optimisation during this wuhan virus period? If no, seems like they have "broader" bands before they make any changes? Which is a good thing as AA is more static.

Whereas syfe seems to have more dynamic changes in their AA? Is this true?

I believe this is true. My StashAway's 26% risk portfolio has not seen any AA change so far whereas a friend's Syfe portfolio just went from 60% equities to 40%. They sold off 20% worth of equities to buy bonds. So it seems like their algo has gone into panic mode whereas StashAway's seems a lot more "stable".

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[hellfire88]

markets quite volatile, any updates on the latest portfolio value?

Will like to see how both compare against the broader market movements

 

[hkchew03]

I believe this is true. My StashAway's 26% risk portfolio has not seen any AA change so far whereas a friend's Syfe portfolio just went from 60% equities to 40%. They sold off 20% worth of equities to buy bonds. So it seems like their algo has gone into panic mode whereas StashAway's seems a lot more "stable".

Posted from PCWX using Redmi Note 8T

Sold off both not long ago, Syfe re-optimisation is definitely way more active. If prefer to hold fallen equity, StashAway is much more stable. Depends on which you prefer, but I do find Syfe "too" quick to re-optimise.

 

[JetStorm]

Sold off both not long ago, Syfe re-optimisation is definitely way more active. If prefer to hold fallen equity, StashAway is much more stable. Depends on which you prefer, but I do find Syfe "too" quick to re-optimise.

Its a robo. Its supposed to rebalance so u dont fall below ur chosen risk.

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[hkchew03]

Its a robo. Its supposed to rebalance so u dont fall below ur chosen risk.

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Depends on what you want, Syfe sold off many of the equities at their lowest point after the 2-3 days drop, to some it is like a buy-high, sell-low. Some would prefer it to hold longer. Another issue pointed out is Syfe does not allow us to opt-out of the re-optimisation while Stashaway does allow you to opt-out.

 

[hellfire88]

Depends on what you want, Syfe sold off many of the equities at their lowest point after the 2-3 days drop, to some it is like a buy-high, sell-low. Some would prefer it to hold longer. Another issue pointed out is Syfe does not allow us to opt-out of the re-optimisation while Stashaway does allow you to opt-out.

Have you seen how markets were like after that 2-3 days drop?

Markets drop even further.

hindsight is 20/20 but at least the algo doing it's job with no emotions

are you a trader or investor?

from a good friend of mine who said this:

Investing and trading are different. Many think they do one but unknowingly do both. Many started out to be long term investors but once they hit the volatility in the market, they started to think and act like traders saying 'better cut loss' or this is a 'dead cat bounce.' Similarly, there are traders who are supposed to cut loss decided not and want to hold for long term. That's disaster especially when you took leverage. There's nothing wrong being an investor or trader, you just have to decide who you are and stick to it.

 

[hkchew03]

Have you seen how markets were like after that 2-3 days drop?

Markets drop even further.

hindsight is 20/20 but at least the algo doing it's job with no emotions

are you a trader or investor?

from a good friend of mine who said this:

Investing and trading are different. Many think they do one but unknowingly do both. Many started out to be long term investors but once they hit the volatility in the market, they started to think and act like traders saying 'better cut loss' or this is a 'dead cat bounce.' Similarly, there are traders who are supposed to cut loss decided not and want to hold for long term. That's disaster especially when you took leverage. There's nothing wrong being an investor or trader, you just have to decide who you are and stick to it.

That is why i said depends on what you want, some prefer to hold it. But issue is Syfe DOES NOT allow you to deselect the optimisation while StashAway offer that option.

You can say market drop further, but what happen if it bounced back? Not saying its bad or anything, but you have NO option to choose in Syfe other than the risk %.

 

[2474265]

My Syfe portfolio (15%) dropped by 1.3% yesterday, while Dow Jones is down 7.6%!!!!!!!!!!!
I was really already expecting the worst! Almost didn't dare to open the app....

Somehow feels weird to be happy about losing less than market, but I guess it's ok because I will benefit from it in the future.

 

[huiseh]

My Syfe portfolio (15%) dropped by 1.3% yesterday, while Dow Jones is down 7.6%!!!!!!!!!!!



I was really already expecting the worst! Almost didn't dare to open the app....

Somehow feels weird to be happy about losing less than market, but I guess it's ok because I will benefit from it in the future.

Pretty sure that's because at 15% risk, your portfolio is probably 50% bonds? Or more after Syfe's recent rebalancing?

Posted from PCWX using Pixel 2 XL

 

[coolhirako]

So when can ALL in ? Still not the time now ?