Roboadvisor: Stashaway vs Syfe

[investor8]

Hi.
@blurpandasg2014, thank you for your updates. I have been following your thread for a while. Always a great read.

I have a REIT+ portfolio with Syfe with $20,000. I would like to have a more diversified (region/sector) investment portfolio and have been contemplating if I should go with Stashaway or DIY. I am aware that Syfe has recently introduced the Equity100 portfolio but I would prefer not to put all my investments with one robo.

Currently, apart from the SG REITs, I have holdings for SWDA. I have done research and am mainly interested in ETF, although I almost bought some MSFT and SHOP.

Does anyone know what type of equities does a Stashaway 36% portfolio consist of? Are the ETFs or stock? I can't seem to find any information.

 

[investor8]

@beyondcontrol, I can't seem to view the image.

Will you be able to try again?

 

[S1ry2Y]

Hi.


I have a REIT+ portfolio with Syfe with $20,000. I would like to have a more diversified (region/sector) investment portfolio and have been contemplating if I should go with Stashaway or DIY. I am aware that Syfe has recently introduced the Equity100 portfolio but I would prefer not to put all my investments with one robo.

My portfolio consists of.

36% Stashaway Monthly Cash (most expensive fees; but earning green)
100% Reits+ Syfe Annual Cash (black status fees o.k, good stability)
100% Stocks Endowus Monthly CPF-OA (unbeatable fees, much better than OA 2.5%)
Enhanced cash smart Endowus: Emergency funds. (SG Bank CMI, 4 to 5 days of withdrawing time give time to think carefully)

All allow auto optimise.

Time horizon focus on holding long, very long.
Only do Robo. No for Human.
Passive investment the way to go.
Active/DIY POEMS/FSM/etc. = higher fees & more homework.

 

[investor8]

My portfolio consists of.

36% Stashaway Monthly Cash (most expensive fees; but earning green)
100% Reits+ Syfe Annual Cash (black status fees o.k, good stability)
100% Stocks Endowus Monthly CPF-OA (unbeatable fees, much better than OA 2.5%)
Enhanced cash smart Endowus: Emergency funds. (SG Bank CMI, 4 to 5 days of withdrawing time give time to think carefully)

All allow auto optimise.

Time horizon focus on holding long, very long.
Only do Robo. No for Human.
Passive investment the way to go.
Active/DIY POEMS/FSM/etc. = higher fees & more homework.

Thank you for your response. You actually made me question myself and through this, I might have found the answer to my question (rebalance myself. ).

Good to "talk".

Thinking about it, I don't mind the homework tbh. I do enjoy doing the research and doing technical analysis on the charts. A very good way to learn what investing is all about.

I thought 100% REIT don't optimise, only rebalance twice a year (Apr and Oct).

Is DIY more expensive? Are you able to provide any evidence?

 

[s0crates]

Why not do Endowus for all? Cheaper fees, no tax inefficiency lol.

My portfolio consists of.

36% Stashaway Monthly Cash (most expensive fees; but earning green)
100% Reits+ Syfe Annual Cash (black status fees o.k, good stability)
100% Stocks Endowus Monthly CPF-OA (unbeatable fees, much better than OA 2.5%)
Enhanced cash smart Endowus: Emergency funds. (SG Bank CMI, 4 to 5 days of withdrawing time give time to think carefully)

All allow auto optimise.

Time horizon focus on holding long, very long.
Only do Robo. No for Human.
Passive investment the way to go.
Active/DIY POEMS/FSM/etc. = higher fees & more homework.

 

[hkchew03]

My portfolio consists of.

36% Stashaway Monthly Cash (most expensive fees; but earning green)
100% Reits+ Syfe Annual Cash (black status fees o.k, good stability)
100% Stocks Endowus Monthly CPF-OA (unbeatable fees, much better than OA 2.5%)
Enhanced cash smart Endowus: Emergency funds. (SG Bank CMI, 4 to 5 days of withdrawing time give time to think carefully)

All allow auto optimise.

Time horizon focus on holding long, very long.
Only do Robo. No for Human.
Passive investment the way to go.
Active/DIY POEMS/FSM/etc. = higher fees & more homework.

I am also trying Endowus CPF-OA with 80-20, started in feb, now still in negative due to the March drop. Will review again by end of the year to see how it fare against CPF 2.5%

 

[hkchew03]

Thank you for your response. You actually made me question myself and through this, I might have found the answer to my question (rebalance myself. ).

Good to "talk".

Thinking about it, I don't mind the homework tbh. I do enjoy doing the research and doing technical analysis on the charts. A very good way to learn what investing is all about.

I thought 100% REIT don't optimise, only rebalance twice a year (Apr and Oct).

Is DIY more expensive? Are you able to provide any evidence?

Depending on how you DIY, if monthly small sum, it could end up more expensive due to comms. If you batch is in quarterly, most likely will be cheaper, but more work as well.

 

[Barracudaz]

Why not do Endowus for all? Cheaper fees, no tax inefficiency lol.

What do you mean by tax inefficiency??? Thought most of the funds are subjected to 30% withholding tax except for LSE market?

 

[Han Shot First]

1) Signing up using someone's referral for the free 6 months management fee, then clicking through shopback to top up min. $500

How do you do the first part and yet still be able to do the second step? I think if you do the first step then you cannot do the second step; and if you do the second step then you cannot do the first step.

 

[blurpandasg2014]

I am also trying Endowus CPF-OA with 80-20, started in feb, now still in negative due to the March drop. Will review again by end of the year to see how it fare against CPF 2.5%

My endowus abt same time as urs. alr recover

 

[blurpandasg2014]

Syfe jus added more equities and sold off bonds on 26 June. Really buy high sell low

 

[smoothtalker]

Syfe jus added more equities and sold off bonds on 26 June. Really buy high sell low

I share the same sentiments.. and tbh the recent product launch on REIT+ and equity100 is a slap on their face. Indirectly saying their core risk management strategy is not as good.

I mean, how can a company abandon core beliefs (ARI product) and shift focus to new products instead of improving it. If so, in future they can simply just cherry pick the product with “best returns” and keep rotate to advertise. Like say when ARI returns is good you advertise it, then when equity100 good you advertise it.

Also, unlike Stashaway, Syfe never publish performance charts comparing the entire range of the portfolio. Only keep snapshot like DR15 and say beat internal benchmark.. omg. I lost confidence.. I withdraw my funds already.

But to give them credit, I find Syfe service better faster withdrawal, more approachable, and lower in annual fees. Very good here.

 

[benlzy]

I share the same sentiments.. and tbh the recent product launch on REIT+ and equity100 is a slap on their face. Indirectly saying their core risk management strategy is not as good.

I mean, how can a company abandon core beliefs (ARI product) and shift focus to new products instead of improving it. If so, in future they can simply just cherry pick the product with “best returns” and keep rotate to advertise. Like say when ARI returns is good you advertise it, then when equity100 good you advertise it.

Also, unlike Stashaway, Syfe never publish performance charts comparing the entire range of the portfolio. Only keep snapshot like DR15 and say beat internal benchmark.. omg. I lost confidence.. I withdraw my funds already.

But to give them credit, I find Syfe service better faster withdrawal, more approachable, and lower in annual fees. Very good here.

Syfe really only launched the Equities100 and Reits+ due to constant customer feedback that they don't want to have the bond section / rebalancing because they already have bonds of some kind in their portfolio.

For one I think it's great that Syfe is listening to the opinions of consumers, and really putting out a range of different products to suit different customers' needs. I don't find it slapping their own face per se. If you trust their algo and want a safer portfolio, go with the risked managed ones. If not, you're free to choose the full equities/reits one.

 

[s0crates]

Very soon they will sell a low cost ILP because their customers want it as well! Joking.

I am not sure if it's a good idea for an advisory platform to always listen to it's clients. As specialist they are supposed to man up and tell stupid clients to f-off and trust them to do the right thing. Now I have absolutely no idea how a client with relatively high risk supposed to choose between the REIT, equities100 and the ARI portfolio.

Are they product guys or advisors? Seems like they are more like kristalai and OCBC roboinvest imo.

Syfe really only launched the Equities100 and Reits+ due to constant customer feedback that they don't want to have the bond section / rebalancing because they already have bonds of some kind in their portfolio.

For one I think it's great that Syfe is listening to the opinions of consumers, and really putting out a range of different products to suit different customers' needs. I don't find it slapping their own face per se. If you trust their algo and want a safer portfolio, go with the risked managed ones. If not, you're free to choose the full equities/reits one.

 

[benlzy]

Well as specialists, I'm pretty sure they can just advise which of their products to go for, or even how to split between portfolios if you want. By listening and providing what their clients want just shows them being more customer-centric. Having the "f-off I'm right attitude" can work if you have a huge market share and have built up your tribe, but for a relatively new company with so many competitors out there, makes more sense for them to increase market share by providing more offerings to their customers.

For me SA36+Equities100+Reits+ will eventually make up around half of my portfolio, while the remaining half goes towards syfe global with ari as I'm still relatively cautious during this period.

 

[Mr. Wood]

Very soon they will sell a low cost ILP because their customers want it as well! Joking.

I am not sure if it's a good idea for an advisory platform to always listen to it's clients. As specialist they are supposed to man up and tell stupid clients to f-off and trust them to do the right thing. Now I have absolutely no idea how a client with relatively high risk supposed to choose between the REIT, equities100 and the ARI portfolio.

Are they product guys or advisors? Seems like they are more like kristalai and OCBC roboinvest imo.

I wonder too why ppl pay advisor and management fee only to diy? seems to defeat the purpose. the other endowus thread oso a lot wanna diy.

yah mayb one day dey will becom sell rubbish products just to get market share? who knows.

 

[Han Shot First]

Syfe really only launched the Equities100 and Reits+ due to constant customer feedback that they don't want to have the bond section / rebalancing because they already have bonds of some kind in their portfolio.

Syfe REIT+ has bond ETF. It's not pure REITs. I think the portfolio has "bond section / rebalancing" using ARI algorithm applied to Singapore REITs and a Singapore bond ETF.

I think Syfe offer a portfolio with REITs because Singapore investors like real estate and REITs. So give the customer what the customer wants.

 

[benlzy]

Syfe REIT+ has bond ETF. It's not pure REITs. I think the portfolio has "bond section / rebalancing" using ARI algorithm applied to Singapore REITs and a Singapore bond ETF.

I think Syfe offer a portfolio with REITs because Singapore investors like real estate and REITs. So give the customer what the customer wants.

The reits+ is split into 2 portfolios, 100% reits or reits with risk management (sg bond/rebalancing with ari). For me I chose to opt for the 100% reits as I currently already have plenty of bonds in the global portfolio (unless they rebalance).

 

[undergrd]

Are there overlaps in your SA36 & Equity100? Thank you!

Well as specialists, I'm pretty sure they can just advise which of their products to go for, or even how to split between portfolios if you want. By listening and providing what their clients want just shows them being more customer-centric. Having the "f-off I'm right attitude" can work if you have a huge market share and have built up your tribe, but for a relatively new company with so many competitors out there, makes more sense for them to increase market share by providing more offerings to their customers.

For me SA36+Equities100+Reits+ will eventually make up around half of my portfolio, while the remaining half goes towards syfe global with ari as I'm still relatively cautious during this period.

 

[benlzy]

Oh, SA36 is Stashaway 36%. Just wanted some diversification in terms of robo as well, and SA goes into non US markets too while Syfe is heavily focused in US currently. Can't compare apples to apples.

I guess an overlap would be XLV healthcare.