SIMBA Telecom discussion thread

[firesong]

Tpg no 8 billion customers

You can flippantly deflect, but the crux of the question remains the same. Should the rest of the world/subscribers be obliged to follow your actions just cos you do it? Did you suddenly become the world's leader, and is there an announcement that the other TPG subscribers were not made aware of? If so, please point us to the official correspondence published on SIMBA's web site or redact their board documentation to show us proof so I may be corrected.

Cos the way you worded your quoted comment implies that to be the case.

Also, as @lohsenglte pointed out, in the past when the TPG Singaporean network went down, even people as far inland as AMK were roaming to Malaysia. They did not leave the country, and yet incurred roaming. You could also make a reasonable case that they are so far inland that it should not be possible to do that.

 

[firesong]

Coming back to the topic, I think all of us are happy to subscribe to SIMBA/TPG because of their value proposition - $10 for 50/100GB is cheap enough - with free roaming to neighbouring countries too. Some of us even use their senior's $5/20GB options. Their additional service to offer a prepaid option for what is essentially the same product is very welcome.

Rightfully so, I think less financially capable residents on our island - especially the foreign labourers who come here to help us develop our infrastructure at extremely depressed salaries - should reasonably be allowed access to the same privilege, and it is arguable they need it more than Singaporeans who might have more disposable income.

As previously pointed out, Prof. Tommy Koh has recently made comments about how Singaporeans tend to look down on the less advantaged amongst ourselves, and some comments here only reinforce that perception of privilege that Singaporeans are unaware of. "I have debit card what!" is true, except that - if you did bother to watch the video linked - a lot of these workers have $0 in their accounts on payday itself. $450 does not go anywhere for them, so every cent matters. It may not matter to you that you have lost almost $10, but it matters to them. You may have the resources to dump $18+18+5 to minimise your losses to $1, but they don't. They may not be here long enough for that extra money to be viable, since their high-risk jobs mean that they can be out of commission very quickly.

All I asked for was some inclusivity in our responding, to be mindful to include this demographic.

Yes, "you are not forced to put in credit" - except when you are, because you signed up at a shop without a credit card on file.
Yes, "you can always just attach your debit/credit card" - except when you don't have any money in it.
Yes, "you can always sign other operators" - except when SIMBA is arguably the cheapest (best value proposition) they can be using that allows them enough data to watch their shows and entertain themselves because bank account $0.

Let's be a little more mindful of some of the other customers that also use the service with us and view things from their perspective.

 

[lohsenglte]

Also, as @lohsenglte pointed out, in the past when the TPG network went down, even people as far inland as AMK were roaming to Malaysia. They did not leave the country, and yet incurred roaming. You could also make a reasonable case that they are so far inland that it should not be possible to do that.

Errrr not TPG/SIMBA.

It was the 71h outage on M1's network in Jan 2013.

 

[firesong]

Errrr not TPG/SIMBA.

It was the 71h outage on M1's network in Jan 2013.

Again remembered wrongly. But I did remember AMK residents complaining about paying roaming cos a friend lived near AMK hub and I met him there for lunch - I don't like AMK hub cos it's too out of the way for me.

 

[mosmos]

Coming back to the topic, I think all of us are happy to subscribe to SIMBA/TPG because of their value proposition - $10 for 50/100GB is cheap enough - with free roaming to neighbouring countries too. Some of us even use their senior's $5/20GB options. Their additional service to offer a prepaid option for what is essentially the same product is very welcome.

Rightfully so, I think less financially capable residents on our island - especially the foreign labourers who come here to help us develop our infrastructure at extremely depressed salaries - should reasonably be allowed access to the same privilege, and it is arguable they need it more than Singaporeans who might have more disposable income.

As previously pointed out, Prof. Tommy Koh has recently made comments about how Singaporeans tend to look down on the less advantaged amongst ourselves, and some comments here only reinforce that perception of privilege that Singaporeans are unaware of. "I have debit card what!" is true, except that - if you did bother to watch the video linked - a lot of these workers have $0 in their accounts on payday itself. $450 does not go anywhere for them, so every cent matters. It may not matter to you that you have lost almost $10, but it matters to them. You may have the resources to dump $18+18+5 to minimise your losses to $1, but they don't. They may not be here long enough for that extra money to be viable, since their high-risk jobs mean that they can be out of commission very quickly.

All I asked for was some inclusivity in our responding, to be mindful to include this demographic.

Yes, "you are not forced to put in credit" - except when you are, because you signed up at a shop without a credit card on file.
Yes, "you can always just attach your debit/credit card" - except when you don't have any money in it.
Yes, "you can always sign other operators" - except when SIMBA is arguably the cheapest (best value proposition) they can be using that allows them enough data to watch their shows and entertain themselves because bank account $0.

Let's be a little more mindful of some of the other customers that also use the service with us and view things from their perspective.

No lah no need kan cheong slowly topup not as if you want to use finish fast

Actually not very sure able your workers, my FW still prefer use prepaid from singtel/starhub, could be the booths setup at little India gives better free gifts even i told them abt tpg. Nowadays they use WhatsApp call back home, no more use idd/sms

 

[sullycoin]

All I asked for was some inclusivity in our responding, to be mindful to include this demographic.

Yes, "you are not forced to put in credit" - except when you are, because you signed up at a shop without a credit card on file.

Yes, but you don't need to put in $100 into the wallet.

If you put in $10 at a time, once a month, just nice to subtract the monthly subscription, then you'll generally not have a wallet balance for SIMBA to deduct for all that roaming you are not going to use when the network next goes down for 71h!

Let's be clear. This is no different from how a prepaid SIM works. If you decide to cancel your prepaid SIM or port to another operator, & you have a credit balance in your card, the telco will just say, 'ummm, too bad, bro'. None of them are going to refund you the remaining balance. You just have to use it or lose it.

Yes, "you can always sign other operators" - except when SIMBA is arguably the cheapest (best value proposition) they can be using that allows them enough data to watch their shows and entertain themselves because bank account $0.

This is straying a little from the topic but there are going to be trade-offs in everything. You want to use this provider, you have to abide by their rules. There can never be the best of all worlds situation.

This is how SIMBA wants to operate their business model, & if that is not satisfactory to you, then use another operator. No one, including SIMBA owes you anything.

 

[firesong]

Yes, but you don't need to put in $100 into the wallet.

If you put in $10 at a time, once a month, just nice to subtract the monthly subscription, then you'll generally not have a wallet balance for SIMBA to deduct for all that roaming you are not going to use when the network next goes down for 71h!

Let's be clear. This is no different from how a prepaid SIM works. If you decide to cancel your prepaid SIM or port to another operator, & you have a credit balance in your card, the telco will just say, 'ummm, too bad, bro'. None of them are going to refund you the remaining balance. You just have to use it or lose it.

The difference with the prepaid SIM is in the nature of their credit. Prepaid SIM model is a direct debit rather than a plan-based one, and the additional bonus credit schemes obfuscates the actual amount spent to put credit inside the wallet. You can make the case that the guy who puts in $8 to get $28 and spends only $8 a month should not be able to cash out $20.

For SIMBA, it is in essence the postpaid model but they provide a additional wallet option, from which they also happen to deduct irregular amounts. This is where the complexity lies in, since it is not represented by other existing payment models and cannot be directly compared to either.

Because of the way they debit, they bypass a wallet with insufficient credit and debit the full amount from the card on file. All I'm saying is, allow for the top up of irregular amounts. Or amend the billing system to draw down the credits to $0 and debit the difference from the card on file. This is fairer to all, and won't have issues.

You're right in that they can just chooe to hide behind "This is the way I do it. Go away". But it does not detract from the injustice their system introduces.

I don't use the credit wallet, so it's not something that bothers me. But I recognise that there are people that do, and it's merely advocacy for a more just way of using the credits. You can likewise choose to ignore them and spend the way you want - it's your money - but you cannot disagree that it doesn't seem right.

 

[boonkang]

The difference with the prepaid SIM is in the nature of their credit. Prepaid SIM model is a direct debit rather than a plan-based one, and the additional bonus credit schemes obfuscates the actual amount spent to put credit inside the wallet. You can make the case that the guy who puts in $8 to get $28 and spends only $8 a month should not be able to cash out $20.

For SIMBA, it is in essence the postpaid model but they provide a additional wallet option, from which they also happen to deduct irregular amounts. This is where the complexity lies in, since it is not represented by other existing payment models and cannot be directly compared to either.

Because of the way they debit, they bypass a wallet with insufficient credit and debit the full amount from the card on file. All I'm saying is, allow for the top up of irregular amounts. Or amend the billing system to draw down the credits to $0 and debit the difference from the card on file. This is fairer to all, and won't have issues.

You're right in that they can just chooe to hide behind "This is the way I do it. Go away". But it does not detract from the injustice their system introduces.

I don't use the credit wallet, so it's not something that bothers me. But I recognise that there are people that do, and it's merely advocacy for a more just way of using the credits. You can likewise choose to ignore them and spend the way you want - it's your money - but you cannot disagree that it doesn't seem right.

You're not considering all angles..

Recently, during NDP promo -- SIMBA adds extra $5 for every $20 that anyone top up to their SIMBA account (wallet).

(Last year, if I'm not wrong -- SIMBA had a similar NDP promo whereby if you top up $18, your wallet balance will be increased to $20).

So if someone's previous SIMBA wallet balance is $0...
Then this person top up $20 during recent NDP promo -- by now that person's SIMBA wallet should have ($20 + $5) = $25 balance.

If this person used up $24.50 in the wallet & decides to port out -- is this person eligible to complain to IMDA that SIMBA is "unfairly" holding "his" balance of $.50 that he cannot withdraw or used up by the time he wants to port out ??

Is this person resonable or not reasonable -- in asking for "his" $0.50 back ??

Haha..

 

[sullycoin]

The difference with the prepaid SIM is in the nature of their credit. Prepaid SIM model is a direct debit rather than a plan-based one, and the additional bonus credit schemes obfuscates the actual amount spent to put credit inside the wallet. You can make the case that the guy who puts in $8 to get $28 and spends only $8 a month should not be able to cash out $20.

That might be the case in the beginning, but with packaged plans for data, calls, social media, 'all-in-ones', I don't think one can claim prepaid cards are only 'direct debit' any more. & if we are looking at pre-paid plans, none of the telco gives the option for pay for a plan partly with credit & partly with a credit card. If I want to buy a 4 week 100GB All in one plan on my Singtel prepaid card (which costs $35) & I only have $32.56 in my prepaid card balance, I have to either, (1) top up another $10 & then use the prepaid card balance to buy the plan, or (2) pay for the plan with my credit card.

In fact, one could also argue that past the plan's allowances, SIMBA works exactly like a 'direct debit' prepaid SIM card, with a PAYG method.

Basically, my point remains. SIMBA (& the 'wallet' feature) is really no different to how a prepaid card works. Prepaid cards have never given you an option to withdraw your main wallet balance either so I don't think it's fair to single out SIMBA for doing the same.

 

[firesong]

That might be the case in the beginning, but with packaged plans for data, calls, social media, 'all-in-ones', I don't think one can claim prepaid cards are only 'direct debit' any more. & if we are looking at pre-paid plans, none of the telco gives the option for pay for a plan partly with credit & partly with a credit card. If I want to buy a 4 week 100GB All in one plan on my Singtel prepaid card (which costs $35) & I only have $32.56 in my prepaid card balance, I have to either, (1) top up another $10 & then use the prepaid card balance to buy the plan, or (2) pay for the plan with my credit card.

In fact, one could also argue that past the plan's allowances, SIMBA works exactly like a 'direct debit' prepaid SIM card, with a PAYG method.

Basically, my point remains. SIMBA (& the 'wallet' feature) is really no different to how a prepaid card works. Prepaid cards have never given you an option to withdraw your main wallet balance either so I don't think it's fair to single out SIMBA for doing the same.

SIMBA does position itself as a Post-Paid plan though, and qualifies as Postpaid for the purposes of Number porting. It also uses the postpaid model for billing.

Prepaid cards don't.

Hence the complexity here. Objectively, SIMBA created this problem for itself.

You can also choose to top up any amount in your account with Singtel/M1/StarHub or any other MVNO if you so choose - it just means you have balance credit in your billing accounts for them to draw against. I have overpaid bills before as I'm too lazy to remember exact amounts. To use a random example, if they want $24.87, I key in $25 and leave it there. The next bill that comes in will state $24.87 for the month, noting the 13c, and final bill for $24.74 due to them. The difference here is, you can top up 1cent or 1 million rupees (which will be duly converted to SGD anyway) if you wish to. SIMBA fixes the amount you can transfer to them in prepayments. Even the retailer option of $18 is not available at the SIMBA web site.


---

Same reply for the opportunist @boonkang. You are trying to equate a one-off promotion (run only twice since their inception with the trial) with a regular/standard practise. They are still not the same thing.

 

[kelvinti]

I just flew into Sarawak this noon.

It is a Celcom | SIMBA 4G+ at downtown area as shown in the "Mobile data 1 SIM1" . Awesome!

 

[firesong]

I'm in Sarawak now.

It is a Celcom | SIMBA 4G+ at downtown area as shown in the "Mobile data 1 SIM1" . Awesome!

How's the network performance? Towards the end of your stay, care to share some generic speed tests (assuming you don't need the data and can burn it). Oh, and do share the locations too!

 

[kelvinti]

How's the network performance? Towards the end of your stay, care to share some generic speed tests (assuming you don't need the data and can burn it). Oh, and do share the locations too!

Oh! I'm in the town of Miri. Just a 24 hours stay here. I'm flying back to sg tomorrow noon.

 

[keenklee]

I just flew into Sarawak this noon.

It is a Celcom | SIMBA 4G+ at downtown area as shown in the "Mobile data 1 SIM1" . Awesome!

IMHO.
S22 huh ?

 

[kelvinti]

IMHO.
S22 huh ?

Yes! S22!

As advised. I manually selected Celcom. Unchecked the auto selection of networks.

 

[keenklee]

Yes! S22!

As advised. I manually selected Celcom. Unchecked the auto selection of networks.

IMHO.
Can work is good.

 

[kelvinti]

IMHO.
Can work is good.

Guess every telcos would want to make sure Samsung flagship models work on their networks.

 

[keenklee]

Guess every telcos would want to make sure Samsung flagship models work on their networks.

IMHO.
Eh... old flagship not working in USA.
Maybe no 5G.

 

[kelvinti]

IMHO.
Eh... old flagship not working in USA.
Maybe no 5G.

I mean the latest Samsung flagship model lol...

 

[sullycoin]

SIMBA does position itself as a Post-Paid plan though, and qualifies as Postpaid for the purposes of Number porting. It also uses the postpaid model for billing.

Prepaid cards don't.

Hence the complexity here. Objectively, SIMBA created this problem for itself.

Maybe they wanted to offer all those low income folks & FWs without credit cards the ability to have a postpaid plan...

Either way, they want to operate a postpaid plan like a prepaid plan (just like M1 did with Maxx, Zero1 did with Jumbo & now Singtel is doing with Heya. Just because it is different to what you think a postpaid plan should be like, does not make it wrong.

You can also choose to top up any amount in your account with Singtel/M1/StarHub or any other MVNO if you so choose - it just means you have balance credit in your billing accounts for them to draw against. I have overpaid bills before as I'm too lazy to remember exact amounts. To use a random example, if they want $24.87, I key in $25 and leave it there. The next bill that comes in will state $24.87 for the month, noting the 13c, and final bill for $24.74 due to them. The difference here is, you can top up 1cent or 1 million rupees (which will be duly converted to SGD anyway) if you wish to. SIMBA fixes the amount you can transfer to them in prepayments. Even the retailer option of $18 is not available at the SIMBA web site.

I'll argue that's a completely different thing again. Since all these postpaid plans do not have the concept of a 'wallet', you are not paying into the number's wallet, but into your account with the telco/MVNO.

Bottomline, I don't disagree it's a bit of a clunky system. But, clearly SIMBA did this to streamline their operations. They are not a bank. I'm sure it's possible for them to create some system for you to top up odd amounts into but that comes with an upfront cost (to build the system) & a recurring cost (to maintain the system). & do their partners/resellers even want to handle such a system (manage top-ups of 1c because someone accidentally used 1.01GB of roaming data)... All these add up to costs & lower margins in a paper-thin margin game. Or just use the current system, which is also familiar & not different to how prepaid cards have worked for decades in Singapore.

& yes, if you don't like it, don't use it...