Suggestion on building a PC

[lalala92]

Wow you saying that you getting $310 etc or $320 is using coupons? Or 11.11. So you want OP to wait until 12.12 as well? What rubbish.

Oh and nice argument about returns for seasonic. And what's the sample size for that? Only France.

Ok not relevant, everyone also knows reviews are just reviews, just take every review with a grain of salt. Tier lists are also just tier lists. So where is this magical sub 100 dollars gold eff psu? Another rubbish by you. Looking at PCThemes pricelist, I dont see one.

Try harder.

With your kind of 'reasoning', does that mean if TS says he wants Biostar or ECS, you will agree with whatever Biostar/ECS choice he makes is good since he only says he wants it? Or perhaps as long as simply because it is cheapest? This is rubbish.

There are many decent brands that offers better value. FYI, i have gotten myself Galax GTX 1060 6GB EXOC White (their top end GTX 1060 model for just $310. While others were able to get it at $320+. And without a requirement to go small, there is no reason to go for MSI AERO ITX. Even zotac AMP! offers better value per se.

Going onto PSU, mind you Johnnyguru's review is 7 YEARS OLD and it was rated comparatively with other PSUs sold during that era. Moreover, down this 7 years users have reported a change in specs; both internally and externally in this PSU series. Thus, the outdated review no longer serves its accuracy and relevancy. Plus, one thing these reviews cannot cover with be the longevity and failure rate. For one, Seasonic S12II series ever made into list of one of higher RMAed PSU series. See it for yourself.

And mind you paying ~$100 for such an outdated bronze rated PSU is lame when i can get gold rated, more modern PSUs of other brands at similar price range. Silly boy.

*http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/717026-Hardware-failure-rates-(numbers-inside!)

 

[MoneyFace =p]

i3-8100 + ASROCK Z370M Pro4 $355 on bizgram

i5-7400/7500 + ASROCK B150M-HDS $344/$365 on PCThemes

Nice that you added on future upgrade. Now, OP I don't know if you will go down that route. But if you really do intend to upgrade CPU yourself and OC, then perhaps the i3 will be a better buy. Cuz if not you will feel sad when you could've saved some money when the H/B boards come out on Q1 2018.

Technology doesn't wait for anyone afterall.

Go and see if you are able to get a lower price on the 7th gen. Also can consider H110 boards, it will further bring the price down.

Ah there you go trying to digress again...

Let korkor teach you how to do a FAIR apple to apple comparison in case you do not how to distinguish between apple and orange :

Intel Core i3-8100 can ONLY be compared to Core i5-7500 and not 7400 due to clock speed differences:

 

[MoneyFace =p]

Comparing across the big 3 PC hardware stores in SLS:

PC Themes Kaby Lake:

PC Themes Coffee Lake:

Fuwell Kaby Lake:

Fuwell Coffee Lake:

Cybermind Kaby Lake:

Cybermind Coffee Lake:

Mind you even the LOWEST END and CHEAPEST H110 combo with Core i5-7500 CANNOT FIGHT Intel Core i3-8100 with CHEAPEST Z370 motherboard which offers more features and quality. And it doesn't matter whether non-K CPU is paired with Z motherboard even if they cannot overclock AS LONG AS PRICE IS RIGHT AND CHEAPER.

Is your ego worth that much?

 

[MoneyFace =p]

Wow you saying that you getting $310 etc or $320 is using coupons? Or 11.11. So you want OP to wait until 12.12 as well? What rubbish.

Even before discount it was already selling for $359.

And which id!ot is in the right mind not to spend when it is cheaper? Perhaps i was a day late into this thread. I bought mine on Monday just 2 days ago during Cyber Monday sale. And promo can come back again on 12.12 which is just 14 days to go. It's not like another 3 more months of wait. So i would strongly advise TS to wait if he can. Definitely way wiser than buying MSI AERO ITX which has no difference during sale or not. So what rubbish are you smoking here?

Oh and nice argument about returns for seasonic. And what's the sample size for that? Only France.

According to wikipedia, France has a population of ~67 million. Let's take that 1% of population buys PC hardware. That's equivalent to ~67000 potential customers. ~20% Seasonic marketshare means ~13400. And that ~3% RMA rate means 402 units being returned. Still not significant eh?

Ok not relevant, everyone also knows reviews are just reviews, just take every review with a grain of salt. Tier lists are also just tier lists.

Ah there digressing again.

Then why still quote jonnyguru giving 9.7 rating to deem Seasonic S12II being a good PSU? Aren't you not taking it as a grain of salt no? LTT like many other review sites does extensive tests and runs these PSUs long enough in order to rate them into tiers. I'm pretty sure their credibility is way more trustable than your mouth.

So where is this magical sub 100 dollars gold eff psu? Another rubbish by you. Looking at PCThemes pricelist, I dont see one.

Did i ever mention it has to be sub $100? I only remember saying 'around similar price range'

Spoiler

And mind you paying ~$100 for such an outdated bronze rated PSU is lame when i can get gold rated, more modern PSUs of other brands at similar price range. Silly boy. :s22

Yes we understand you are blind/myopic. Let me guide you through:

PC Themes is selling EVGA GD 550W with 80 Plus Gold rating for just $109 that comes with Jap caps.

https://www.evga.com/Products/Specs/PSU.aspx?pn=5D67F0CF-C6AC-498F-8FD5-0E8FFE34F021

And from jonnyguru forum, this series is not those cut corners budget ones...

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14041

Cybermind & Fuwell also selling Xigmatek Tauro G from $115

Thanks for entertaining us btw.

 

[nexusRAGER]

i don’t get why people don’t just look at the updated tier list and just anyhow shoot psu models.

if can’t advice please don’t give bad advice to people,

at the end of the day is TS issue to follow whose advice, if he wants MSI after our explanation then so be it

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/

 

[MoneyFace =p]

i don’t get why people don’t just look at the updated tier list and just anyhow shoot psu models.

if can’t advice please don’t give bad advice to people,

at the end of the day is TS issue to follow whose advice, if he wants MSI after our explanation then so be it

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/

TS may not have done sufficient reasearch on this but at least it is commendable that he did some and seek for opinion here. I appreciate that. Compared to many others who came here asking for builds without head and tail.

But it is simply horrendous to see others trying to 班门弄斧 and tries hard to defend their worthless ego with all their insensible reasonings.

 

[MoneyFace =p]

Hi,

I have come out with the specs for building a desktop. Need some pros suggestion and feedback to see if its okay with such build.


Processor: Intel LGA 1151 i5-7400 $236*

Motherboard: Asrock B150M Pro4 $153*

Graphics: MSI GTX1060 Aero ITX DDR5 6GB* $369*

SSD: SAMSUNG EVO 850 250GB** $146*

PSU: SEASONIC S12II-Non MODULAR 520W $84*

HDD: Toshiba SATA3 7200rpm 1TB $54*

RAM: KINGSTON DDR4 2400 (8GB) $114*

Casing: Cooler Master Elite 431 PLUS ATX USB 3.0 $67*

Total : $ 1223

As for monitor i have a budget of $200. Wonder if is possible to get at this range. Normally use it for casual gaming like dota 2. Not hardcore gamers

Thius will be a much better optimised, no-nonsense build for you

CPU: Intel Core i3-8100 @ $181*
MB: ASRock Z370M Pro4 @ $208*
RAM: Crucial Value DDR4-2400 CL15 8GB @ $115 (Fuwell)
GPU: Galax GTX 1060 6GB EX OC White @ $359^
SSD: Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB @ $139*
HDD: Western Digital Blue 1TB @ $68
PSU: EVGA GD 550W [80 Plus Gold] @ $109*
CASE: Fractal Design Focus Mini G / Cooler Master MasterBox Lite [Window] / NZXT Phantom 240 @ $79*
OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit [Product Key] @ ~$2 (Taobao)
DSP: BenQ GW2470H 23.8" 1080p 60Hz [VA] @ $199*

Total: $1459*

*Prices from Lazada SG BEFORE discounts.
^Price may be available during 12/12 Lazada Online Revolution so do monitor price changes.


Total price maybe slightly higher than budget BUT coupon discounts can be very substantial reducing ~$150 for this build to $1309.

 

[MaoZeDuo]

Paiseh cant help to sidetrack after seeing this pic... noob question: i just bought the GALAX GeForce® GTX 1060 OC 6GB... black color... performance wise is it the same as exoc?

Add some salt too.. tier 4 pui. When u know the company f***ed up and a series is split into 2 tiers In fact 620W m12ii quite the legend for failing

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/

And see how sexy this white skin is..

 

[hlots123]

Add some salt too.. tier 4 pui. When u know the company f***ed up and a series is split into 2 tiers In fact 620W m12ii quite the legend for failing

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/

kiv their explanation...

Any group-regulated unit will be placed no higher than Tier 4 due to the dated design of them. This includes Seasonic's S12/M12/M12II, for example. This does not include the S12G.

 

[tmfwy]

i thought you hoot 1070 ti?

I also hooted 1070TI during you know when...

Where i found that the Zotac Mini, was not so Mini after all.. @#$#%$#^%

 

[tmfwy]

It may be cheapest, but thermal performance one of the worst, aside from the fact that it is noisy. Best VALUE with regards to performance currently in my opinion is Galax EXOC.

On the topic of PSU, M12ii(mentioned previously) not a good PSU at all. From a builder perspective, Out of 10 PSUs installed, 3 PSUs spoiling is already 30%.. instead of banking on the word of others, who might have only did tests on ONE unit, take it with a pinch of salt that it is also dependent on production batch..

If we stop trying, why is there a point of a forum? It’s a platform for communication, if u want to dictate, open your own website and go ahead with it over there.. we appreciate advices, and do offer them ourselves. But if the advise isn’t sound, or when someone starts to papaya, we also don’t want OP or other users to be led off track.

PM me for cookie (; HardwareZone Forums app

Agree on the Galax OC

Best value for money at the moment
Feels cheap though, nice form factor for dual fan

 

[tmfwy]

i3-8100 + ASROCK Z370M Pro4 $355 on bizgram

i5-7400/7500 + ASROCK B150M-HDS $344/$365 on PCThemes

Nice that you added on future upgrade . Now, OP I don't know if you will go down that route. But if you really do intend to upgrade CPU yourself and OC, then perhaps the i3 will be a better buy. Cuz if not you will feel sad when you could've saved some money when the H/B boards come out on Q1 2018.

Technology doesn't wait for anyone afterall.

Go and see if you are able to get a lower price on the 7th gen. Also can consider H110 boards, it will further bring the price down.

I actually do agree with Lalala92 on this

There are 2 mindsets

1. Console mindset. Aka person who buys a system as a whole and don't bother upgrading for a looong time

2. DIY mindset. Person who buys the pc with the intention of upgrading


Between an I5-7400 and an I3-8100,
The I5-7400 has turbo boost, which can bring the clock up higher for a short burst of time.
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, It may have a higher resale value as an I3 is generally perceived to be of a lower value than an I5.

In the short term, TS stands to benefit more by getting a 7th gen system than an 8th gen s. In the event that he does intend to upgrade, he may still find it cheaper to upgrade down the 7th gen route, than the 8th gen route

Coz the tech savvy persons will always insist on the 8th gen route, so there will be people ditching non coffee lake for coffee lake, which in turn will drive prices down.

And seriously, when people upgrade PCs, whats wrong with selling both the old mobo and cpu away to get a new coffee lake + 3xx board? Nothing wrong. Most of us who play Intel platform will be used to a motheboard + cpu upgrade.

Both money face and lalamove has provided valid points BUT from opposing Points of View

If one has the budget, go for an I7-8700 else anything else is fair game until cheaper motherboards AND the I5-8400 becomes available in quantity.

Coz at the moment, Coffee lake comes together with a Z series board. Resale value of this series of boards will instantly drop once the cheaper motherboards come out.
Not to mention general perception of an I3 vs I5.....

For those that do not understand the above paragraph
Take these 2 boards off infinity / Fuwell Pricelist with the I5-7400
Asus H110M-A 365
Asus H270M Plus429 +64 avg +55
Asus Z270M Plus 466 + 36 avg +40

When the H series motherboards appears on the resale market, prices will be based on the H series mobos. This will present a significant price drop over the Z series motherbords. No matter how one argues. if comparing Same processors, a person will most likely go for the cheapest alternative, which is an H series motherboard. And most people just need 1x PCIEx16, 1-2x sata slots and hopefully an M2.

This is what lalala92 is referring to and i believe most lao jiaos who have played the upgrading game will understand this motherboard issue.

Personally, i am still not hopping onto the Coffee Lake Bandwagon, nor will i recommend it, until at least the follwing appear
I5-8400 in quantity
H seriez Moherboard
And hopefully Ram prices of $100 / 8gb
Coz one is bleeding just from so many places EXCEPT the CPU. Mobo Premium + Ram Premium. Current sweet spot is DDR3 or notebook DDR 3 and 4.

The Z series is for early adopters and it makes sense to milk the most at this stage..

In the near short term an I5 7th gen may make sense, only to upgrade once hands get itchy for an I7 8th gen next year. By that time ram prices would have stabilised

If one wants to hop one the bandwagon of an upgrade in the near future within the 8th gen timeframe, get an 8th gen instead.

But chances are, if one has a very tight budget, one is not looking to upgrade for quite a while..

If one were to compare prices now in literal terms, there is no sense in getting a kaby lake when a coffee lake is similarly priced.

But if one were to consider the I5-8400 AND an H series motherboard, one may want to get a kaby lake or used i7, where the depreciation has already run its course, especially for systems still with DDR3 cheap rams.

 

[Neptunes43]

Hey TS, there's a Superflower 550W 90+ Silver that's fully modular on Lazada for 109 bucks. Just saw while mindlessly browzing. Might wanna take a look.

Oh wait. the EVGA GD 550W ($109) is a better deal. I think it's fully modular too

 

[lowveld]

Please justify your claim above...

How are they even good in the first place?

Money kor Kor is back!!!

 

[Coool11]

Wow. The debate still on going until today?

 

[MoneyFace =p]

I actually do agree with Lalala92 on this

There are 2 mindsets

1. Console mindset. Aka person who buys a system as a whole and don't bother upgrading for a looong time

2. DIY mindset. Person who buys the pc with the intention of upgrading


Between an I5-7400 and an I3-8100,
The I5-7400 has turbo boost, which can bring the clock up higher for a short burst of time.

Refer to my previous post. I have already covered that and taken into account Kaby Lake Core i5 CPUs' Turbo boost rates:

So Core i5-7400 is clearly below i3-8100, that is on par with Core i5-7500.

Intel Core i3-8100 can ONLY be compared to Core i5-7500 and not 7400 due to clock speed differences:

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, It may have a higher resale value as an I3 is generally perceived to be of a lower value than an I5.

In the short term, TS stands to benefit more by getting a 7th gen system than an 8th gen s. In the event that he does intend to upgrade, he may still find it cheaper to upgrade down the 7th gen route, than the 8th gen route

This is where you are wrong.

Core i3 has had a lower resale value compared to Core i5 of the same or prior gens mainly because Core i5s are higher specced and priced with 4C4T while Core i3s are 2C4T and lower priced. These quad cores Core i5s were true CPU upgrades for existing dual core Core i3/Pentium users until now.

However, mind you Kaby Lake has relegated to obsolescence as Intel breaks socket support with Coffee Lake onwards.

This means Kaby Lake CPUs resale value will plummet like sh!t. Remember what happened to LGA1156 Nehalem/Westmere after Sandy Bridge arrived? Cos no one (those holding to KL Core i5s) will want to 'upgrade' to the same gen CPU (i.e. KL Core i7) that offers little to no performance advantage with the same number of physical core count, i.e. 4C. I won't be surprised your Kaby lake Core i5's resale value will plummet even lower than that of Coffee lake Core i3. Cos everyone in the resale market (who are tech savvy to be in this market) will know they have similar specs while Kaby Lake is already an obsolete CPU stuck in an obsolete socket.

This also means current new Kaby Lake CPU adopters WILL NOT HAVE a tangible upgrade path to 6C while Coffee Lake Core i3 4C adopters can opt to go for cheaper Core i5/i7 6C CPUs in the future. Even if LGA1151v2 socket compatibility remains uncertain for now, there is still a possible upgrade route to 9th gen and beyond. As mentioned before, 7th gen is already stucked dead.

And seriously, when people upgrade PCs, whats wrong with selling both the old mobo and cpu away to get a new coffee lake + 3xx board? Nothing wrong. Most of us who play Intel platform will be used to a motheboard + cpu upgrade.

Kaby Lake platform will be perceived as older platform since it was launched almost a year before Coffee Lake. Resale value will drop further for KL than CL based on this age factor alone.

In summary,

1. If one does not intend to upgrade, it is already ~$30 cheaper to adopt current 8th gen Coffee Lake LGA1151v2 4C4T Core i3 + Z370 combo than the obsolete LGA1151v1 4C4T Core i5 + H110/B150 combo despite the motherboard chipset choices and price disadvantage.

2. Even if one does intend to upgrade, Coffee Lake Core i3 adopters will see immediate tangible upgrade path to current gen 6C6T Coffee Lake Core i5s and 6C12T Coffee Lake Core i7s and perhaps future gens too. While Kaby Lake adopters can ONLY upgrade to 4C8T Kaby Lake Core i7. Only 4 virtual threads more for them - minimal or no perceivable upgrade.

3. Coffee Lake CPUs will see higher resale value over Kaby Lake counterparts due to the latter's obsolescence and age. Both Kaby Lake CPU and motherboards will be seen 1 year older than Coffee Lake ones.

4. Current coffee Lake adopters which have no choice but to go with Z370 motherboards can see themselves having a wider upgrade path with not only greater core counts but also capability to overclock K CPUs. Kaby Lake Core i5 adopters with B/H motherboards will be stuck at default CPU speeds no matter which non-K or K Core i7 they are buying.

Or in short,

It is cheaper and wiser to buy 4C4T Coffee Lake Core i3 + Z370 combo, that also offers tangible upgrade path to higher end 6C Core i5/i7 CPUs, while your Z370 motherboards allows for overclocking with K CPU upgrade as well. Resale value will also be higher being a newer CPU platform without official socket incompatibility seen with Kaby Lake.

 

[tmfwy]

Refer to my previous post. I have already covered that and taken into account Kaby Lake Core i5 CPUs' Turbo boost rates:

So Core i5-7400 is clearly below i3-8100, that is on par with Core i5-7500.




This is where you are wrong.

Core i3 has had a lower resale value compared to Core i5 of the same or prior gens mainly because Core i5s are higher specced and priced with 4C4T while Core i3s are 2C4T and lower priced. These quad cores Core i5s were true CPU upgrades for existing dual core Core i3/Pentium users until now.

However, mind you Kaby Lake has relegated to obsolescence as Intel breaks socket support with Coffee Lake onwards.

This means Kaby Lake CPUs resale value will plummet like sh!t. Remember what happened to LGA1156 Nehalem/Westmere after Sandy Bridge arrived? Cos no one (those holding to KL Core i5s) will want to 'upgrade' to the same gen CPU (i.e. KL Core i7) that offers little to no performance advantage with the same number of physical core count, i.e. 4C. I won't be surprised your Kaby lake Core i5's resale value will plummet even lower than that of Coffee lake Core i3. Cos everyone in the resale market (who are tech savvy to be in this market) will know they have similar specs while Kaby Lake is already an obsolete CPU stuck in an obsolete socket.

This also means current new Kaby Lake CPU adopters WILL NOT HAVE a tangible upgrade path to 6C while Coffee Lake Core i3 4C adopters can opt to go for cheaper Core i5/i7 6C CPUs in the future. Even if LGA1151v2 socket compatibility remains uncertain for now, there is still a possible upgrade route to 9th gen and beyond. As mentioned before, 7th gen is already stucked dead.


Kaby Lake platform will be perceived as older platform since it was launched almost a year before Coffee Lake. Resale value will drop further for KL than CL based on this age factor alone.

In summary,

1. If one does not intend to upgrade, it is already ~$30 cheaper to adopt current 8th gen Coffee Lake LGA1151v2 4C4T Core i3 + Z370 combo than the obsolete LGA1151v1 4C4T Core i5 + H110/B150 combo despite the motherboard chipset choices and price disadvantage.

2. Even if one does intend to upgrade, Coffee Lake Core i3 adopters will see immediate tangible upgrade path to current gen 6C6T Coffee Lake Core i5s and 6C12T Coffee Lake Core i7s and perhaps future gens too. While Kaby Lake adopters can ONLY upgrade to 4C8T Kaby Lake Core i7. Only 4 virtual threads more for them - minimal or no perceivable upgrade.

3. Coffee Lake CPUs will see higher resale value over Kaby Lake counterparts due to the latter's obsolescence and age. Both Kaby Lake CPU and motherboards will be seen 1 year older than Coffee Lake ones.

4. Current coffee Lake adopters which have no choice but to go with Z370 motherboards can see themselves having a wider upgrade path with not only greater core counts but also capability to overclock K CPUs. Kaby Lake Core i5 adopters with B/H motherboards will be stuck at default CPU speeds no matter which non-K or K Core i7 they are buying.

Or in short,

It is cheaper and wiser to buy 4C4T Coffee Lake Core i3 + Z370 combo, that also offers tangible upgrade path to higher end 6C Core i5/i7 CPUs, while your Z370 motherboards allows for overclocking with K CPU upgrade as well. Resale value will also be higher being a newer CPU platform without official socket incompatibility seen with Kaby Lake.

1. You are assuming people will upgrade. Not all people will. In fact, there are alot of people who purchase PCs as purpose built sets, never upgrading them.

2. You are assuming we are dealing with a tech savvy person who knows what the difference is between a Celeron, Pentium I3 i5 i7 pre and post kaby lake.

In short, your arguments are all based on a scenario where a tech savy person intends to upgrade within the chipset generation, or deal exclusively within a tech savvy community. It does not take into consideration a longer-term scenario whereby the H series motherboard has appeared in the resale market

Once the scenario changes to include other parameters, such as a non tech savy person in any part of the chain, things become different

Believe it or not, Intel marketing has ingrained into people

I3 = Good
I5 = Better
I7 = Best

It takes some time for people to adjust and in this time span, even though tech savvy persons KNOW an I3-8100 performs similarly to an I5-7400 because of the 2 additional cores, not everyone is tech savvy.

Also, Moneyface's arguments are also based on " upgrade " potential.
FACT: NOT ALL PEOPLE UPGRADE
For such persons. what if i now say, i buy an obsolete PC, say an I5 or I7 2nd / 3rd / 4th gen used, and spend the remainder of the budget into a better graphic card?
Any of the used system if DIY, represents a tangible cost savings
Sure, the pc is obsolete
It cannot upgrade. It is a dead horse
But it can still play games It can still function
And SSD / Graphic Card can be ported over

Maybe to be fairer, take this marketplace thread ( Not related to me in anyway )

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/c...-199/wts-asus-g11cd-k-sg020t-cpu-5686888.html
Asus purpose built G11CD-K-SG020T for $1200
Specs:
Intel@Core i7-7700 Processor(3.6GHz up to 4.2GHz)
Chipset: Intel@H110
Operating System: Windows 10 64bit
HDD: 2TBHDD+M.2 128SSD
Memory: 16G DDR4 2400MHz, 16Gx1
Memory Slot: 2xDDR4LONG-DIMMSLOT
Graphic Card: NVIDIA GTX1060
VRAM: 6GB DDR5
ODD: SuperMulti DVD RW

Will it run rings around what TS originally planned? ABSOLUTELY
Will it run rings around an I3-8100? ABSOLUTELY
Cost Savings? Still got at least $20 for Grab / Uber ( From original $1223 budget ) Still can Nego. Still got warranty. Dun need to go to multiple distros to rma. Just deal with serviec centre who may provide on-site service.
Cannot upgrade but hey, you get a used I7 Kaby Lake for price of a new I3.
Feels shiok to me..

Again, don't take it personally

Coffee Lake is a milestone where Intel added 2 additional cores into the line up
This is game-changer

Both MoneyFace and lalala62 have provided arguments for and against Coffee Lake but from opposing angles

Neither is right but neither is wrong.
Each side has their pros and cons

Moneyface has produced arguments for upgrade potential
If one has the intention to upgrade, go for an I8

Lalala92 has produced arguments favrouring a later upgrade
Upgrade at a later stage and save some money, which can be pumped into better components

This thread will be closed as it has digressed from the original post.