Surge Protector

[westom]

... the entire computer failing is not due to some defective capacitor. Unless you are trying to say that the cause of it was the PSU that fried the entire computer,

Dude -calm down. Read what is posted. Speculation decreeing an entire computer fried is based in what fact? Basic elecetrical knowledge says a PSU cannot fry other computer parts. Why did you assume what is not possible? An example of what must be known before making any conclusion. A PSU capacitor frying a motherboard just cannot happen (assuming that PSU was not missing functions standard long before PCs existed).

In another case, they claimed power cycling had fried their computer. Then I did an analysis. A pullup ressitor had one function: bootstrap power during power up so that other subsystems could start. Since they left that computer always on, then that resistor failed sometime in the past three months. A classic manufacturing defect that was only observed during power up.

When they repowered that computer, it acted as it completely fried. Observation (junk science) assumed it was fried. Observation also blamed power cycling for a defect that occurred when it was left always on. A completely contrary conclusion resulted once wild speculation and junk science reasoning was replaced by facts and knowledge.

Just one capacitor failure can make an entire computer act as if fried. But again, nothing even implies it is fried. Entire problem could be due to one cold solder joint or a blown fuse. Decades of experience suggests it acts 'fried' becauase only one part failed. Nothing emotional in that. Just a simple example how wild speculation exists when facts are ignored or not first learned.

Experience says a 'fried computer' often means wild speculation. No reason existed to call an electrician. No reason exists to assume a computer is fried. No reason exists to assume a power protector would have done anything useful. No facts or numbers were provided. We only know one computer will not boot. Most likely reason remains a manufacturing defect.

Did anyone even check its fuse?

 

[a562140]

First learn what already exists in power supplies. Incoming power is often filtered by something equal or superior to filters in Belkin or APC. Then noise is converted to higher voltage DC. Then filtered again. Then converted to radio frequency spikes exceeding 300 volts. Then filtered again while converted to a low voltage. Then filtered again into rock solid and stable DC voltages.

Greatest noise is created as high frequency spikes exceeding 300 volts. Existing and superior filters even clean that much 'dirtier' electricity. Anything that Belkin or APC does is completely undone and then put through better filters. Existing filters are far superior to what magic plug-in devices might do.

Why would anyone recommend near zero filters from APC or Belkin? Many are educated by advertising; not by facts, technology, or numbers. And that says what every filter recommendation must provide - the numbers. No numbers are why high profit scams are so easily promoted. No specification numbers means a recommendation is suspect - possibly a complete lie.

good info. what do you use/recommend?

 

[westom]

good info. what do you use/recommend?

Approaches are many. For example, to learn what has failed means some instructions, one minute of labor, and then a reply to numbers that defines the computer's foundation as good or suspect. Before fixing anything, first the defect must be defined - ie by numbers from a meter.

This first option is so simple that even a 13 year old can do it. May result in significant knowledge about how computers work and fail.

Second approach - take it to a computer repair shop. Most typically cannot say what is defective. Will usually just keep replacing parts until something works. That probably or may not identify a defect. But will suggest what failed and will get a computer working again.

Third appoach - just keep replacing parts until something works. Most usually start with the PSU. If not done with care, then this option can exponentially complicate a problem. But at least one can learn from his mistakes.

Above is about tryng to fix a cmoputer. Is that the objective? Or is an objective to avert future failures?

 

[shin89]

Dude -calm down. Read what is posted. Speculation decreeing an entire computer fried is based in what fact? Basic elecetrical knowledge says a PSU cannot fry other computer parts. Why did you assume what is not possible? An example of what must be known before making any conclusion. A PSU capacitor frying a motherboard just cannot happen (assuming that PSU was not missing functions standard long before PCs existed).

In another case, they claimed power cycling had fried their computer. Then I did an analysis. A pullup ressitor had one function: bootstrap power during power up so that other subsystems could start. Since they left that computer always on, then that resistor failed sometime in the past three months. A classic manufacturing defect that was only observed during power up.

When they repowered that computer, it acted as it completely fried. Observation (junk science) assumed it was fried. Observation also blamed power cycling for a defect that occurred when it was left always on. A completely contrary conclusion resulted once wild speculation and junk science reasoning was replaced by facts and knowledge.

Just one capacitor failure can make an entire computer act as if fried. But again, nothing even implies it is fried. Entire problem could be due to one cold solder joint or a blown fuse. Decades of experience suggests it acts 'fried' becauase only one part failed. Nothing emotional in that. Just a simple example how wild speculation exists when facts are ignored or not first learned.

Experience says a 'fried computer' often means wild speculation. No reason existed to call an electrician. No reason exists to assume a computer is fried. No reason exists to assume a power protector would have done anything useful. No facts or numbers were provided. We only know one computer will not boot. Most likely reason remains a manufacturing defect.

Did anyone even check its fuse?

I've did all the checks to verify that all the pc parts are fried. Even brought it down to the distributor to get it verified. Does that answer all your questions about what a noob am I for calling my computer fried with no work done at all?

 

[xRenol]

Anyone using Schneider Electric Surge Protector?

Thanks.

 

[equilizer]

use electricity savers card

hi all, get yourselves an energy savers card to reduce the EMF, thereby reducing the chances of power surge. this device helps to equilize the flow of current by reducing the wastage current.
not only that, it will reduce your electricity bills too.

 

[9N1Y9N1Y]

hi guys any tower power surge to recommend?

 

[Geraldtan88888]

You can immediately identify those who only repeat what they are told to believe. Who never ask questions. Who do not even know what the product does.

How does a 2 cm part inside that Belkin or APC stop what three miles of sky could not? It does not. How do its hundreds of joules absorb destructive surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? It does not. Why do its numeric specs not even list protection from each type of surge? It is sold to people who automatically believe what they are told. Never ask why. Never demand numbers. Only believe the first thing they are told. Can also be sold the Brooklyn Bridge.

Surge protection has worked and been well proven even 100 years ago. Would earth direct lightning strikes so that operators never remove headsets and leave the room. And then is a scam that does not even claim surge protection in its numeric specs. Take a $3 power strip. Add some ten cent protector parts. Sell it for $25 or $150. Many will recommend the same protector selling for $150 only because it costs more money.

Your telco's switching computer in every CO is connected to overhead wires all over town. Suffers about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. Money is never wasted on scam protectors such as the Belkin or APC. Instead telcos use vastly cheaper protectors that earth even direct lightning strikes ... and remain functional.

Remember, if Belkin, et al grossly undersizes a protector. then the protector will completely fail - provide zero protection. That failure gets the most naive to recommend it. Effective protectors for every home earth direct lightning strikes – and remain functional.

Serious protection already exists inside every appliance. A surge too small to harm any appliances can destroy a scam protector. That failure promotes sales – especially among consumers who are not thinking. Effective protectors for much less money remain functional.

Your concern is a rare surge that typically occurs once every seven years. That surge can overwhelm protection inside appliances. That surge cannot be stopped, blocked, or absorbed by an adjacent protector. The effective solution was even patented over 100 years ago. Used in every telco CO, munitions dumps, and commercial broadcasting station so that numerous direct lightning strikes cause no damage. That same protector is installed in every house for about $1 per protected appliance. And is sold by far more responsible companies such as General Electric, Siemens, Square D, Polyphaser, ABB, Intermatic, and Leviton - to name but a few responsible companies. An effective Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50.

No, you still do not have surge protection. Those are only protectors. What Belkin and APC hope you never learn: a protector and protection are two completely different items. 'Whole house' protectors from responsible companies have the always required and dedicated wire to earth. A wire that must be short (ie 'less than 10 meters). Not just to any ground; single point earth ground. The protector connect destructive surges harmlessly to the only thing that does protection – single point eareth ground.

Belkin, APC, and the master of all scams (Monster) will not discuss earth ground. If they did, you would never buy their products. And you would spend less money. Effective protectors earth direct lightning strikes without damage. Even the protector remains functional. But again, technology well proven and repeatedly demonstrated for over 100 years. Not a plug-in scam sold on retail myths.

You should have numerous questions. Especially if you were taken by Belkin, et al retail myths. This old and well proven technology is virtually unknown to an overwhelming majority educated only by retail advertising. Effective protection even from direct lightning strikes uses a protector that costs about $1 per protected appliance.

Hi Westom,

Gald I found this thread.
I live in a penthouse and lighting surge is very real for me.
I want to install a whole house surge protector of at least 50K amp.
I have a few questions. Hope that you can help me out:

1) Does the main circuit board in our house already contain this whole house surge protector? If it already does, then I dont need to waste money on this. If it does not, can you let me know roughly the cost of doing so, so that I don’t get ripped off when calling electricians to install it for me.
2) I am intending to install outdoor IP cameras on my roof. These are exposed to the elements. I understand that these IP cameras can be struck by lightning. My main concern is to prevent these lightning from entering into my house’s power supply to burn everything off. To do so, I am making the precautions below. Could you let me know whether these are the correct things to do?

2a) Run DC (instead of AC) wires from a sheltered portion on the top floor, through PVC pipes, to supply these cameras. My reasoning is this: By denying earth to Lightning, it is less likely to strike the cameras and the DC wires. In addition, because the DC wires are so thin, Lightning is less likely to choose them.
2b) To minimise exposure to Lightning, I will minimise running these DC wire across my roof. But I do not have a choice but to run them over my roof for about 1 to 2 metres. Thereafter, it will run along the wall.
2c) To minimise a lightning strike on the cameras, wifi connection instead of LAN cable connection is safer.

I am not a electrical engineer and has not done science beyond secondary school. So I will be very happy if you can advise me. Thanks so much!

 

[westom]

I live in a penthouse and lighting surge is very real for me....
1) Does the main circuit board in our house already contain this whole house surge protector? ...
2) I am intending to install outdoor IP cameras on my roof. These are exposed to the elements. ...
2a) Run DC (instead of AC) wires from a sheltered portion on the top floor, through PVC pipes, to supply these cameras. ...

Almost nothing posted requires engineering training. Knowledge here has be "laymanized". Your first concern is to connect lightning to earth before it can strike the structure. Your building must have lightning rods. But remember, lightning rods, like protectors, do not do protection. Rods are only connecting devices to what does that protection. How well are those lightning rods earthed? Inspection is strongly encouraged.

A lightning strike earthed by a lightning rod does not pass through cameras. Protection is never about stopping or blocking a surge. Protection is always about the many times more conductive path to earth. All this was originally introduced in primary school science.

Only you can determine if a 'whole house' protector exists where AC power enters - and within meters of the utility 'single point earth ground'. However if the building is concrete and steel, then that single point ground may be in the power board for your flat. Those steel I-beams and floor concrete are excellent earth ground.

But this you must understand. Every utility (AC power, cable TV, telephone) must enter that flat to make an earth connection at the same point.

'Whole house' protector for AC mains comes from companies with better integrity. Including Novaris, Keison, Clipsal, Polyphaser, ABB, and Siemens to name but a few. Manufacturers also make other electrical equipment including circuit breakers in power board, connectors, and that box. Your 'whole house' protector must also meet local electrical safety standards. Some big box hardware stores carry them. Electrical supply houses (where electricians buy them) also do. Try pricing them in 'brick and mortar' houses out as well as do Internet searches.

Obtaining a protector is simple science. 50,000 amps defines its life expectancy over many surges. How it connects to earth defines protection with each surge. A connection from protector to 'single point ground' must be low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters, no sharp wire bends, not inside metallic conduit, separated from other non-grounding wires). This last sentence discusses the 'art'.

Engineers, commercial broadcasters, and ham operators might understand technical reasons for it. Electricians often do not. Only better informed electricians would understand that earthing and how that hardwire is routed is critically important. Earthing must both meet and exceed safety code requirements.

Using DC instead of AC makes no difference. Even Wifi must have AC power (even if that is converted to DC). A power supply that converts AC to DC is nothing more than another wire to a surge. Destructive surges routinely increase voltage as necessary to blow through anything that might stop it. Never try to block or stop a surge. Always give it a best connection to earth. Then superior protection already inside appliances (and cameras) is not overwhelmed.

Better is to route wires down under eves. A DC wire at the top of a roof, to lightning, is a best connection to earth. That wire should also be at least one half meter away from any wire that makes a lightning connection to earth. If wires are adjacent, they are all but connected together - according to lightning that cannot be stopped by 3 kilometers of sky.

Inspect or earth lightning rods. Then inspect every incoming wire inside every cable for either a direct hardwire connection or a 'whole house' protector connection to single point earth ground. Most all attention (for lightning rods or protector) should focus on the 'art'. What harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. Earth ground.

 

[triobrothers]

So in Singapura, how do we get licensed contractor to assist in installing whole house surge protector device? I am using way too many Belkin Gold series, spent quite a lot, but seeing an increased number of appliances in my house now, I am really considering to further up the protection to everything that get to and fro the main circuit board/breaker.

 

[triobrothers]

hi guys any tower power surge to recommend?

My advice would be, don't easily believe those surge protectors with wordings but no info on their surge suppressing capabilities. Bought a few extension systems of various brands, all comes with the wordings Surge Protector/Protected, even the box mentioned so, but guess what?

Nothing more than a stupid fuse at the main plug.

I see at Qoo10 SG has a few seller selling them and claiming they have surge protection. Since 2014, waiting for them to reply on the product surge protection ratings.

And yes, I am using the following at home:
http://www.belkin.com/sg/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=657507
http://www.belkin.com/sg/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=657518
http://www.belkin.com/sg/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=508252

So far so good, even my fridge is on the Gold series.
Except it gets a bit warm when powered on around the LEDs area.

 

[Geraldtan88888]

Almost nothing posted requires engineering training. Knowledge here has be "laymanized". Your first concern is to connect lightning to earth before it can strike the structure. Your building must have lightning rods. But remember, lightning rods, like protectors, do not do protection. Rods are only connecting devices to what does that protection. How well are those lightning rods earthed? Inspection is strongly encouraged.

A lightning strike earthed by a lightning rod does not pass through cameras. Protection is never about stopping or blocking a surge. Protection is always about the many times more conductive path to earth. All this was originally introduced in primary school science.

Only you can determine if a 'whole house' protector exists where AC power enters - and within meters of the utility 'single point earth ground'. However if the building is concrete and steel, then that single point ground may be in the power board for your flat. Those steel I-beams and floor concrete are excellent earth ground.

But this you must understand. Every utility (AC power, cable TV, telephone) must enter that flat to make an earth connection at the same point.

'Whole house' protector for AC mains comes from companies with better integrity. Including Novaris, Keison, Clipsal, Polyphaser, ABB, and Siemens to name but a few. Manufacturers also make other electrical equipment including circuit breakers in power board, connectors, and that box. Your 'whole house' protector must also meet local electrical safety standards. Some big box hardware stores carry them. Electrical supply houses (where electricians buy them) also do. Try pricing them in 'brick and mortar' houses out as well as do Internet searches.

Obtaining a protector is simple science. 50,000 amps defines its life expectancy over many surges. How it connects to earth defines protection with each surge. A connection from protector to 'single point ground' must be low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters, no sharp wire bends, not inside metallic conduit, separated from other non-grounding wires). This last sentence discusses the 'art'.

Engineers, commercial broadcasters, and ham operators might understand technical reasons for it. Electricians often do not. Only better informed electricians would understand that earthing and how that hardwire is routed is critically important. Earthing must both meet and exceed safety code requirements.

Using DC instead of AC makes no difference. Even Wifi must have AC power (even if that is converted to DC). A power supply that converts AC to DC is nothing more than another wire to a surge. Destructive surges routinely increase voltage as necessary to blow through anything that might stop it. Never try to block or stop a surge. Always give it a best connection to earth. Then superior protection already inside appliances (and cameras) is not overwhelmed.

Better is to route wires down under eves. A DC wire at the top of a roof, to lightning, is a best connection to earth. That wire should also be at least one half meter away from any wire that makes a lightning connection to earth. If wires are adjacent, they are all but connected together - according to lightning that cannot be stopped by 3 kilometers of sky.

Inspect or earth lightning rods. Then inspect every incoming wire inside every cable for either a direct hardwire connection or a 'whole house' protector connection to single point earth ground. Most all attention (for lightning rods or protector) should focus on the 'art'. What harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. Earth ground.

Hi Westom, thanks so much for your advice! I gonna get a electrician to install a whole house surge protector

 

[teammech]

Almost nothing posted requires engineering training. Knowledge here has be "laymanized". Your first concern is to connect lightning to earth before it can strike the structure. Your building must have lightning rods. But remember, lightning rods, like protectors, do not do protection. Rods are only connecting devices to what does that protection. How well are those lightning rods earthed? Inspection is strongly encouraged.

A lightning strike earthed by a lightning rod does not pass through cameras. Protection is never about stopping or blocking a surge. Protection is always about the many times more conductive path to earth. All this was originally introduced in primary school science.

Only you can determine if a 'whole house' protector exists where AC power enters - and within meters of the utility 'single point earth ground'. However if the building is concrete and steel, then that single point ground may be in the power board for your flat. Those steel I-beams and floor concrete are excellent earth ground.

But this you must understand. Every utility (AC power, cable TV, telephone) must enter that flat to make an earth connection at the same point.

'Whole house' protector for AC mains comes from companies with better integrity. Including Novaris, Keison, Clipsal, Polyphaser, ABB, and Siemens to name but a few. Manufacturers also make other electrical equipment including circuit breakers in power board, connectors, and that box. Your 'whole house' protector must also meet local electrical safety standards. Some big box hardware stores carry them. Electrical supply houses (where electricians buy them) also do. Try pricing them in 'brick and mortar' houses out as well as do Internet searches.

Obtaining a protector is simple science. 50,000 amps defines its life expectancy over many surges. How it connects to earth defines protection with each surge. A connection from protector to 'single point ground' must be low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters, no sharp wire bends, not inside metallic conduit, separated from other non-grounding wires). This last sentence discusses the 'art'.

Engineers, commercial broadcasters, and ham operators might understand technical reasons for it. Electricians often do not. Only better informed electricians would understand that earthing and how that hardwire is routed is critically important. Earthing must both meet and exceed safety code requirements.

Using DC instead of AC makes no difference. Even Wifi must have AC power (even if that is converted to DC). A power supply that converts AC to DC is nothing more than another wire to a surge. Destructive surges routinely increase voltage as necessary to blow through anything that might stop it. Never try to block or stop a surge. Always give it a best connection to earth. Then superior protection already inside appliances (and cameras) is not overwhelmed.

Better is to route wires down under eves. A DC wire at the top of a roof, to lightning, is a best connection to earth. That wire should also be at least one half meter away from any wire that makes a lightning connection to earth. If wires are adjacent, they are all but connected together - according to lightning that cannot be stopped by 3 kilometers of sky.

Inspect or earth lightning rods. Then inspect every incoming wire inside every cable for either a direct hardwire connection or a 'whole house' protector connection to single point earth ground. Most all attention (for lightning rods or protector) should focus on the 'art'. What harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. Earth ground.

Thanks Westom!

Never knew there were surge protection for whole house before.

I'll get a electrician to install a main surge protector for my machine shop first. Too much at stake to risk not protecting.

 

[Nakedtoes]

just order a targus surge protector for my tv and modems and router... good?? been using belkin for my pc so far so good

 

[westom]

just order a targus surge protector for my tv and modems and router... good?? been using belkin for my pc so far so good

How often were surge damaged dishwasher, clocks, recharging electronics, dimmer switches, refrigerator, central air, etc replaced? Using your reasoning, then all those (not on protectors) were simultaneously damaged. Or did you put them on invisible surge protectors?

That Belkin did absolutely nothing. That proves it provided protection? Cherry picking eliminates facts that contradicts your conclusion. Also called a junk science conclusion. Where is this surge that a Belkin protected from?

Belkin and Targus do not claim to protect from surges that can damage appliances. Belkin did nothing. That proves is did something? How?

 

[napoleon bohlumpar]

buy those audiophile type of surge protector (far superior to those sold at computer stores)..............can improve picture and sound quality too...........

i got one (10 year old liao)..........never used (new old stock).........$800+ when i bought it.........anyone wanna buy ?

has digital and analogue outlets..................using American plugs

 

[pantss]

Guys I have a starhub set top box (cable TV) that dies whenever there's a thunderstorm.
After restarting the box, the time syncs correctly, I have the power and connection symbols green but I get no signal at my TV.

I have to go exchange the box to get it working again. I ask the starhub guys/1633 guys they all claim this issue is unheard of but it happened to me four times already.

Anyone has a solution for this? Would surge protector work?

 

[eric3743]

Guys I have a starhub set top box (cable TV) that dies whenever there's a thunderstorm.
After restarting the box, the time syncs correctly, I have the power and connection symbols green but I get no signal at my TV.

I have to go exchange the box to get it working again. I ask the starhub guys/1633 guys they all claim this issue is unheard of but it happened to me four times already.

Anyone has a solution for this? Would surge protector work?

Maybe should use extension cord with surge protection instead.

Possible & maybe do look into your cable coaxial network in your premise.

 

[westom]

Guys I have a starhub set top box (cable TV) that dies whenever there's a thunderstorm.
After restarting the box, the time syncs correctly, I have the power and connection symbols green but I get no signal at my TV.

Your symptoms were quite well understood even long before cable existed. Solutions were well understood and implemented over 100 years ago. Some examples of how and why it happens.

A surge is an electric current connecting that cloud to earth. If that path is inside a structure, then that cloud connects to earth destructively via appliances. Your cable box is probably connected to a cable that is earthed. Since you did not earth a surge before it could enter, then a cable box was a best connection to earth. Damage created because a surge was not connected to earth BEFORE entering. Damage directly traceable to not learning what Ben Franklin demonstrated over 250 years ago.

Incoming on AC mains. Hunting for earth destructively inside. One destructive path is that box. Using a plug-in protector can even make damage easier. Since that protector (only a profit center) must somehow 'block' or 'absorb' hundreds of thousands of joules. Honesty means numbers. How does that 2 cm protector part 'block' what three kilometers of sky cannot? It doesn't. How does its hundreds of joules 'absorb' a surge that is hundreds of thousands of joules?

Why would anyone recommend that protector? Most only want to be ordered what to think. So most only recommend what advertising, hearsay, wild speculation, and subjective reasoning (no numbers) have ordered them to believe. Honest consumers always demand reasons why - especially numbers. Those ignored numbers say a plug-in protector does nothing to protect that box or anything else.

Meanwhile, something called a protector is part of effective protection. Yes, same words describe many completely different and unrelated items - when numbers are not discussed. This effective protector never does protection. Instead, this protector connects a surge current to what does all protection - single point earth ground. Only then does a surge dissipate harmlessly outside. Only then is a surge not inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances.

Described is why damage can happen. What are best considered scams. What you may be suffering from. And what an effective protector must do. That connection to earth must be low impedance (ie less than 3 meters). Every wire inside every incoming cable must connect low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to the same earth ground. Either directly (ie a coax cable) or via a 'whole house' protector (ie telephone, AC electric).

More numbers. Lightning is typically 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector for AC electric is 50,000 amps. Any protector that fails on any surge over many decades is undersized and ineffective. Ineffective (plug-in) protectors are profit centers; not effective protection. And are easily promoted to and by consumers who only want to be ordered what to think by soundbytes.

So, what wire entered without effective protection? Your symptoms are actually quite typical when one spends massively on a plug-in protector or does not properly earth one 'whole house' protector.

What needs most of your attention? What does all protection? Single point earth ground and its low impedance (ie hardwire has no sharp bends or splices) connection. That is where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. (Obviously wall receptacle safety ground is not earth ground.)

 

[napoleon bohlumpar]

buy those audiophile type of surge protector (far superior to those sold at computer stores)..............can improve picture and sound quality too...........

i got one (10 year old liao)..........never used (new old stock).........$800+ when i bought it.........anyone wanna buy ?

has digital and analogue outlets..................using American plugs

MY ABOVE OFFER STILL STANDS...........sell for $500