Syfe REIT+

dappermen

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we discussed + wrote 1 thesis just on this divs wdrwl when i did it on SA's Sg income too!!!!!!!!!!!
Syfe or SA use the same method ! i hve SYFE Reits too
 

ooomygod

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we discussed + wrote 1 thesis just on this divs wdrwl when i did it on SA's Sg income too!!!!!!!!!!!
Syfe or SA use the same method ! i hve SYFE Reits too
So what was the findings , conclusion? Could you please share the thesis as well. Because I believe their internal calculations are not intuitively understood and having qns on some of the metrics.
 

dappermen

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use this! https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...shaway-vs-syfe.6092311/page-28#post-131950820
u have to keep Telling yourself: wht is left in your Net Investmt (or net deposit) ie "investd amt" is after deductg All tht crosses the line of your bank account!!!
if u opted out dividends, hence divs crosses (wdrawn) from ur robo into your bank , that will impact your NEt deposit/investmt too






wat is your tot invesmt then ? get Net inv amt + divs paid = Tot u investd
Let me teach u a way to Understand (in order to under your app) how Stashaway define their "Net deposits"
- u have to keep telling yourself:

net deposits: is aft All $/cash that crosses the line of your bank account!!!!!!!!
eg u DcA/RSP $50 or u lumpsum 1K into your robo that amt crosses from bank into the RObo, ie Net deposits! (to them)
if u suddenly needed S$300 in urgent need, u wdraw $300 from ur robo & it crosses into ur bank ie Minus deposit
if u opted out dividends, hence divs crosses (wdrawn) from ur robo into your bank , that will impact your NEt deposit too
(So long u think w this perspective u will be "Psycho" into their definition)

So what if Your robo has gotten some dividends rec'd? So long that div recd doesnt crosses your bank account at all, then too bad, that will NOt have any impact to + your net Deposit at all


the impact of the dividends will only be added to your that figure : Total Returns (shown in App)
Ref:
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/131949151-post825.html
 

ooomygod

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Thanks for the above , seems like everyone does not agree with Syfe's calculation logic. Dividends by definition should not impact your initial investment but there will be a MTM impact against your initial investment. Is there resolution from Syfe's Team regarding this? Or the conclusion is to let them have the gains?
 

dappermen

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Hi

u sure u read my writeup?

Anything that crosses the line of bank account will impact on your net invesmt eg 100

eg u decided to dca $5 so your net invesmt is up by $5 ie 105

if u wdraw $70 out for
Emerg use?!!! Hence your net inv lesser by 70 ie 100-70: 30

If u opted out of divs $15? And that amt goes into bk??! Your net inv is lesser by 15
(But your own bank account is up by 15: the balance sheet of your net worth is alwys balanced)
 

ooomygod

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Hi

u sure u read my writeup?

Anything that crosses the line of bank account will impact on your net invesmt eg 100

eg u decided to dca $5 so your net invesmt is up by $5 ie 105

if u wdraw $70 out for
Emerg use?!!! Hence your net inv lesser by 70 ie 100-70: 30

If u opted out of divs $15? And that amt goes into bk??! Your net inv is lesser by 15
(But your own bank account is up by 15: the balance sheet of your net worth is alwys balanced)
Hi. The question is why should cash dividend affect initial investment? Example if you invest $1000 and the dividend is $10. Your initial investment stays at $1000 but there may be a MTM impact against the $1000. From a customer's perspective if you deduct the dividend from my initial investment, wouldnt my P&L remain net neutral? This means that the dividend gain is not a gain.

And it brings another qns, assume I go on a cash payout for 10years, what would my initial investment be based on their logic?

And I have gotten confirmation from their team that cash dividend payout should not affect initial investment. Their team is looking into it and responding by Monday.

Cheers!!!
 

dappermen

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And it brings another qns, assume I go on a cash payout for 10years, what would my initial investment be based on their logic?
so long u wdrw an amt b it 4 emergency or to take a portion of your divs that will Surely lead to your invesmt amt lowerg!
cos tht amt wdrawn No Longer controls/own a share/stk it no Longer impact/create Value in the Pf anymore

it is also nt evn a 1% cash in ur Pf too
 

ooomygod

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so long u wdrw an amt b it 4 emergency or to take a portion of your divs that will Surely lead to your invesmt amt lowerg!
cos tht amt wdrawn No Longer controls/own a share/stk it no Longer impact/create Value in the Pf anymore

it is also nt evn a 1% cash in ur Pf too
Hi. Im not withdrawing any amount. It is dividends which the underlying REIT portfolio pays on a periodic basis. This is the rightful amount that I am supposed to get on my capital investment.

Imagine you invest in a stock @ $1000, and it gives you dividend @ $10. There might be fluctuations against the $1000 but in no way am I calculating my MTM against $990. The reason being MTM will always be against the initial investment amount.

This is not what Syfe's calculation logic is and that's why I am looking for a plausible reason why I should accept this logic.

Cheers!!!
 

dappermen

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So long it is a div payout from a bank to another bank (crossing line is a bank) then it is a wdrawl !
And
If u didnt allow your divs to be crossed ov to any bank(ie no wdrawl) then it will not impact on your invested amt

yes i admit it took me a long time to force myself to accept such a “logic”! Too
 

direbmem

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I think dapperman explanation is wrong and I get what ooomygod is saying. If my investment is $10 and I receive $10 special dividend (hypothetical example), and assuming market value of the security remains at $10. My total net worth shd be $20.
Based on dapperman logic, my bank account would increase $10, and my investment would decrease by $10, making my networth constant at $10, which doesn't make sense. Dividend does reduce the price of the security theoretically, but it usually doesn't happen that way, in fact stock value can rise after dividend payout as well. But we are not talking about the mark to market impact here.

Dapperman, it not just a logic difference with no impact to networth. In this case, the logic that you explained results in a loss, if the value of the security remains the same or even increase.
 

dappermen

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That is not my explanatn but Robo’s replies to me:

and invested amt is not mkt value

If u r using syfe app, your invested amt is lowered when u opted/wdraw divs out

Another figure reflected is mkt value, mkt value is mkt value, not invested amt

i will alwys transf/wdraw value out of my investmt, why wont tt drop the investmt amt lower?????
 
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direbmem

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So based on my example above: $10 invested, $10 dividend paid out. Syfe would show invested amount = $0, market value = $10?
 

dappermen

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I wish to have a 100% dpu too, yes i knw it a hypothetical qn set by u only ….to help all to understand

mkt value may or may not b 10 due to many factors

and for Robos like SA (i hve never do it in syfe for such case) , once invested amt hit 0
, it will all be reflected w a “dash”, all computations will come to a “null”/halt…..
- this is how robotic it is…. Lol


It will be better if your qn is direct to syfe and then share here and
Use this eg better which will not hit 0:
$10 invested, $9 dividend paid out. Syfe would show invested amount = $1, market value = $*?


(u need to reflect a much more worthwhile mkt value to churn out much more of output/dividends)



*: mkt value will also decrease due to wdrawl of cash/dividends (b it i like it Or not) :{
by the way when syfe computes tot mkt val = pf return+ divs recd+ curr pf value
Hence differentiate mkt val v invested amt
 
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ooomygod

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I wish to have a 100% dpu too, yes i knw it a hypothetical qn set by u only ….to help all to understand

mkt value may or may not b 10 due to many factors

and for Robos like SA (i hve never do it in syfe for such case) , once invested amt hit 0
, it will all be reflected w a “dash”, all computations will come to a “null”/halt…..
- this is how robotic it is…. Lol


It will be better if your qn is direct to syfe and then share here and
Use this eg better which will not hit 0:
$10 invested, $9 dividend paid out. Syfe would show invested amount = $1, market value = $*?


u need to reflect a much more worthwhile mkt value to churn out much more of output/dividends



*: mkt value will not decrease due to wdrawl of cash/dividends
by the way when syfe computes tot mkt val = pf return+ divs recd+ curr pf value
Hence differentiate mkt val v invested amt
Hi dappermen. Yes I have already reached out but have yet to see meaningful justifications as to why invested amount should decrease according to cash dividend payout. The only reason why I have reached out to this forum is to see whether anyone encountered this "unique" logic that Syfe uses and understand any meaningful responses / justifications that have been already shared.

Seems like not the case, will share findings when available.

Thank you. Cheers!
 

dappermen

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Sambuca78

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A lot of selling on 24 Jun, wondering if anyone else too? Thanks.
 
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