Syfe REIT+

huiseh

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Wow. I'd like to thank you guys for sharing this.
I'd just created a REIT+ portfolio this morning and put a bit of money to try it out, quickly withdrew my money after reading these rebalancing issues. Really not good at all. I guess I'll stick to Stashaway.

Thanks again, appreciate it.

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assiak71

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Time to move away from Syfe. 100% equity portfolio they still can allocate it as 59% equity 32% bond. This shows their re-balancing algorithm is too aggressive to be in the safe zone. This method of re-balancing is to artificially make their investors feel safe. Without losing money/losing less money during volatile time, less investors would exit. Thing is we should be thinking of gains and not just avoiding loss. Volatile time is the best time to make gain.

Seems like Syfe just want us to make gain during normal times. Like a saving account... slow and steady.
Dont think there is 100% equities. Its by downside risk. Based on your example of 59% equities, and assuming 25% risk, the forecast is about 40% drop in equities?
 

assiak71

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Wow. I'd like to thank you guys for sharing this.
I'd just created a REIT+ portfolio this morning and put a bit of money to try it out, quickly withdrew my money after reading these rebalancing issues. Really not good at all. I guess I'll stick to Stashaway.

Thanks again, appreciate it.

Posted from PCWX using Pixel 2 XL
Well i guess their algo should improve over time with more real data for training. But such things can really go both ways. If by end of mar there is another 10% drop in equities, will you think the algo is good or bad?

What can be observed now is it does seem to be more sensitive/dynamic than Stashaway's algo. Is that a good or bad thing, only time will tell
 

smoothtalker

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Perhaps we should switch off the computer, go enjoy coffee, and come back after 6 months to look at the portfolio. Syfe is actually keeping the portfolio within the intended risk targets, and not the other way around, i.e. determine asset allocation and then risk targets. Both methods are not wrong as they have been extensively studied in finance.

If one is simply after returns, you can trade leveraged or derivative instruments, or perhaps trying at the casino is a better bet.

Btw if we click change risk we can see the latest asset allocation. 25% risk level now is 69.9% equity 25.1% bond 5% commodity
 
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tutonic

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The problem isn't their rebalancing. It's more so the inability to opt out of it. Stashaway, at the very least, gives you the chance to opt out of the auto-optimisation. Furthermore, as can be seen so far in this thread, their algo is too aggressive and will end up losing money for us, just to get us peace of mind in short run (which is useless for anyone with half a brain) so people don't withdraw.

I myself just went in on the REIT+ yesterday. Now reading this thread makes me have some doubts. I'll just monitor how it goes.
 

Brown24

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Their ARI mayb more suitable for lump sum investment and can't take volatility at all type.
I'm doing DCA so find it not so suitable for me.
 

assiak71

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Just wait and see. It is impossible to get it right all the time in the short term.

Lets see 1 month, 3 months, 6 months down the road. If equities go -10% to -15% next, what would you think then?
 

2474265

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Syfe's algorithm seems to have anticipated the Fed rate cut!!! Not sure how, but they rebalanced just in time. If Fed cuts interest rates drastically like this, it seems economy is in serious issues and happy that my Global portfolio is more bonds now.

Also yesterday Dow Jones closed at -3% again!

Happy to see that they took drastic measures last week, should help me now.
 

assiak71

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Syfe's algorithm seems to have anticipated the Fed rate cut!!! Not sure how, but they rebalanced just in time. If Fed cuts interest rates drastically like this, it seems economy is in serious issues and happy that my Global portfolio is more bonds now.

Also yesterday Dow Jones closed at -3% again!

Happy to see that they took drastic measures last week, should help me now.

Are you in the global portfolio or reit+ or both?
 

Gametaku

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Just wait and see. It is impossible to get it right all the time in the short term.

Lets see 1 month, 3 months, 6 months down the road. If equities go -10% to -15% next, what would you think then?

If you are investing for long term, equities bearish for short term is a gd opportunity to buy more of them. Really wish i could opt out of Syfe auto re-balancing.
 

JellieEllie

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Yes. Really risky investing with Syfe during volatile time.They did the same thing to 3 of my global portfolio regardless of risk %. They like to time the market and purchase bonds at a super high price and sell equities when its value is at the very bottom. Take yesterday for example, they should have purchased more equities at market opening or not touch our equities composition at all. Instead of doing that, they sold equities and purchase more bonds. Equities were sold at rock bottom price and more bond was purchased. If they did not touch my equities composition, those portion would have made 5-6% gain yesterday. This is not the first bad "optimization" made to my portfolios. I think at least 3 bad optimization were made for these past few days.
Given that stocks dropped sharply again last night, are your equities portion still making the 5 - 6% gain? Different people have different risk tolerance. Some people might like that Syfe is bringing back your portfolio risk to whatever risk level you've chosen initially.

I'd rather limit my losses now and live to fight another day, than to not rebalance and potentially risk losing a lot more. So it's all a matter of perspective. You think it's buy high sell low, others may think that they're getting what they signed up for with Syfe - a stable-risk portfolio for long-term investing.
 

Gametaku

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G So it's all a matter of perspective. You think it's buy high sell low, others may think that they're getting what they signed up for with Syfe - a stable-risk portfolio for long-term investing.

That is why they should have the option for us to opt out of the re-balancing.
 

tutonic

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I'd rather limit my losses now and live to fight another day, than to not rebalance and potentially risk losing a lot more. So it's all a matter of perspective. You think it's buy high sell low, others may think that they're getting what they signed up for with Syfe - a stable-risk portfolio for long-term investing.

Thats all fine if that is your goal. The problem is that you CAN'T OPT OUT of the rebalancing which severely disadvantages investors who are in it for the long haul, as like what's mentioned below, during times like this is when it is worthwhile to go in more on equities, but it's pointless if syfe rebalances and you lose out on potential gains. If you can opt out, then there's no problem. That is the issue, not the act of rebalancing itself; it's the inability to opt out.
 

assiak71

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Thats all fine if that is your goal. The problem is that you CAN'T OPT OUT of the rebalancing which severely disadvantages investors who are in it for the long haul, as like what's mentioned below, during times like this is when it is worthwhile to go in more on equities, but it's pointless if syfe rebalances and you lose out on potential gains. If you can opt out, then there's no problem. That is the issue, not the act of rebalancing itself; it's the inability to opt out.
Kindly feedback to Syfe. I have feedback asking for a fixed 100% reits option.

Without ARI, what fixed AA would you offer if you are Syfe?
 

2474265

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Given that stocks dropped sharply again last night, are your equities portion still making the 5 - 6% gain? Different people have different risk tolerance. Some people might like that Syfe is bringing back your portfolio risk to whatever risk level you've chosen initially.

I'd rather limit my losses now and live to fight another day, than to not rebalance and potentially risk losing a lot more. So it's all a matter of perspective. You think it's buy high sell low, others may think that they're getting what they signed up for with Syfe - a stable-risk portfolio for long-term investing.

I agree with that, every dollar I keep (not lose) today, I need to earn less tomorrow, and when markets will go up, Syfe will probably have a higher equity share in their portfolio again.
 

smoothtalker

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Don't understand opting out of re-balancing.. If one is confident of a market rally then just withdraw the funds and time the market yourself. Syfe is a wealth manager not speculator.

In quantitative finance we have seen forward asset prices having poor autocorrelation function. Furthermore with a loss of 50% of value, one needs a gain of 100% to recover. Syfe is just performing its mandate to manage downside risks.
 

JetStorm

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Robos are meant for lazy folks who chose their risk level. All robos market their risk level as % u will not lose.

Yes stashaway may not rebalance but if ur portfolio % goes below ur desired risk level in this market downturn, who u gonna blame?

Thus kudos to syfe for rebalancing.

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S1mpleGuy

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syfe just buy high sell low my reits portfolio. they did that to my global a few times. dont like their methodology
 

JetStorm

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syfe just buy high sell low my reits portfolio. they did that to my global a few times. dont like their methodology
Think of it as they protecting ur money based on ur risk level. If u want to time the market, then maybe robo is not for you...

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