Syfe Robo advisor thread

[win_man]

major drop today..
hmm usa not doing well?

Sent from somewhere in your heart using GAGT

Yup same for me

 

[cadvin]

If you DIY and choose your broker carefully it would definitely be more cost effective.
For instance if you use Interactive Brokers transaction fees would be low and the FX spread really excellent.
Don't forget that Syfe would also incur a FX spread as they need to convert the SGD you give them to buy into the underlying ETFs.
The only problem with Interactive Brokers is that under their standard account (IBKR Lite seems not yet available in SG) you get a 10 USD monthly minimum fees unless you are above 100k USD.
But I assume you portfolio is already around there as you used the Gold tier (of 0.4% management fees) that requires at least 100k SGD in AUM for comparison.

However, the problem with DIY is that it requires dedication and discipline so the convenience of a roboadvisor could indeed make it worth it to pay for the additional management fees.

 

[spiritGate]

Just download the syfe app, browsing through the app, it seems as good as stashaway.

Is there a referral code like stashaway for this? And how is the return like for the reit portfolio?

 

[Gametaku]

Just download the syfe app, browsing through the app, it seems as good as stashaway.

Is there a referral code like stashaway for this? And how is the return like for the reit portfolio?

Check your pm.

 

[Gametaku]

Not sure why Syfe anyhow readjusted my portfolio. The portfolio now has 18.2% cash (SGD) sitting there doing nothing.

Another of my Syfe portfolio also has like 11.8% cash sitting there doing nothing.

I can accept if its 2-5% but 18.2% and 11.8% cash sitting there doing nothing rather than investing is like

 

[Gametaku]

if you change your perspectives.. sometimes it's better to actively manage the portfolio and take profit on paper gains, overweight, or underweight to capture opportunity.

Just imagine another digital advisor being very passive. You will end up paying them 1% ish (robo + trailer fees) yearly fees for not doing anything, and letting your portfolio value swing with the market. they continue to earn the fees while you are trapped in to either invest or divest.

The thing is they would usually only hold a maximum of 5% cash. 18.1% is ridiculous. Imagine paying them 1% annual for the 18.1% cash sitting there. This is really free money for doing nothing.

 

[2474265]

The thing is they would usually only hold a maximum of 5% cash. 18.1% is ridiculous. Imagine paying them 1% annual for the 18.1% cash sitting there. This is really free money for doing nothing.

Fully agree with this. I have never seen so much cash in my Syfe portfolio, I am pretty sure they are going to invest it very soon. In current situation you might have been very lucky that they haven't invested all of it.

@Gametaku, can you check in a day or two if it's still the case? Please let us know here. Or get in touch with Syfe to find out why.

 

[s0crates]

Did they manage to change to cash before or after the crash? Hahaha

Not sure why Syfe anyhow readjusted my portfolio. The portfolio now has 18.2% cash (SGD) sitting there doing nothing.

Another of my Syfe portfolio also has like 11.8% cash sitting there doing nothing.

I can accept if its 2-5% but 18.2% and 11.8% cash sitting there doing nothing rather than investing is like

 

[Gametaku]

Did they manage to change to cash before or after the crash? Hahaha

They sold it for cash after the crash. I am not taking any profit at all. More like bought high and sold low.

 

[Han Shot First]

Looks like Syfe sold bond ETFs to get cash. If equity goes down further, the Syfe client would not benefit from bonds going up. However, cash is needed to buy more equity eventually.

Wonder if this is a good tactic by Syfe? Perhaps Syfe has to execute a 2-step procedure (over at least a few days) to improve returns for client:
1. Sell bonds to get cash.
2. Buy equities with the cash (at a later date).

If Syfe can detect this drawdown event, it could mean that Syfe "algorithms" are quite good. It seems that StashAway "algorithms" (according to StashAway threads) did not detect this event or were unable to respond to this event, so StashAway client's portfolio just declined in value with global stock market decline. (So no value add from using StashAway.)

Possible conclusion:
1. Syfe "algorithms" are better than StashAway "algorithms" for a drawdown event.

Not sure why Syfe anyhow readjusted my portfolio. The portfolio now has 18.2% cash (SGD) sitting there doing nothing.

Another of my Syfe portfolio also has like 11.8% cash sitting there doing nothing.

I can accept if its 2-5% but 18.2% and 11.8% cash sitting there doing nothing rather than investing is like

 

[Gametaku]

Looks like Syfe sold bond ETFs to get cash. If equity goes down further, the Syfe client would not benefit from bonds going up. However, cash is needed to buy more equity eventually.

Wonder if this is a good tactic by Syfe? Perhaps Syfe has to execute a 2-step procedure (over at least a few days) to improve returns for client:
1. Sell bonds to get cash.
2. Buy equities with the cash (at a later date).

If Syfe can detect this drawdown event, it could mean that Syfe "algorithms" are quite good. It seems that StashAway "algorithms" (according to StashAway threads) did not detect this event or were unable to respond to this event, so StashAway client's portfolio just declined in value with global stock market decline. (So no value add from using StashAway.)

Possible conclusion:
1. Syfe "algorithms" are better than StashAway "algorithms" for a drawdown event.

Nope, Syfe sold my equities to get cash. Not bond. This portfolio equities composition should be around 94% but it is only at 77% now. Those sold equities were bought at a higher price so they should had hold on to it and wait it out. If I need to buy more equities when they is a further dip, I will invest more fund myself. Makes no sense to sell 17% of my equities at a loss.

 

[Gametaku]

Another of my Syfe portfolio is facing the same fate. This is for a 13% risk portfolio.

Targeted equities composition should be about 65%
Targeted bond composition should be about 30%

But they sold my equities (at a loss) in exchange for some cash sitting.
So equities is now at 52.6% while bond composition has small or no change at all.

 

[assiak71]

Think the issue with such tactical algo is there has to be some drop first before they apply the brakes

That works well if there is an even bigger drop next. But if it is just nice at the bottom of a small dip...

I guess thats where a constant AA may be better?

 

[Han Shot First]

@Gametaku, based on your feedback I propose a new hypothesis on the strategy / tactics that Syfe "algorithms" could be doing.

Perhaps Syfe has to execute a 3-step procedure (over at least a few days or more likely over a few weeks or months) to improve returns for client:

1. Do not sell bond ETFs. Because when equity prices go down, bond prices go up. Therefore, keep or maintain bond ETF positions (or allocations) to preserve capital of Syfe client's investment portfolio. This is a "do nothing" transaction.
2. Sell equity ETFs to get cash (on T day) e.g. additional cash amount of $C. This transaction is already performed. So you cannot prevent it or undo it.
3. Buy equity ETFs with the $C cash at lower prices (at a later date i.e. T + N day). This transaction is pending.

It seems to me that a further (perhaps significant) decline in the US stock markets is a very high probability event. Perhaps the Syfe "algorithms" are also forecasting a decline in equity prices and it would be prudent investing to sit on $C cash and wait for the opportune time to buy back the equity ETFs (at much lower prices).

If after the 3rd transaction (in the 3-step procedure), the Syfe client ends up with more units / shares of equity ETFs than before the procedure, then the Syfe client won.

Another way is looking at the current value of Syfe client's investment portfolio and comparing it to the value (of the portfolio) if equity ETFs had not been sold. If the current value is higher, then the Syfe client has already won. However, if Syfe "algorithms" can execute the 3rd transaction at favorable prices, then the Syfe client could win even bigger.

 

[S1mpleGuy]

Syfe just adjust your risk to your preferred level ignoring the prices. It seems they buy high sell low the equities and use the cash to buy bonds in current conditions. If it is the start of bear market this might work but if it is just a quick dip they will be faring very poorly. Esp if you just started recently this buy high sell low is very clear

 

[2474265]

I'm very happy about the rabalancing, my portfolio got rebalanced on Tuesday so it avoided the massive crash on Wednesday and esepecially yesterday (DJIA -5% in 1 day). So the rabalancing should signifanctly cushion the fall, I'll check this afternoon.

 

[Han Shot First]

What DR level are you at? Seems like Syfe "algorithms" are quite good especially after yesterday's further drawdown event.

 

[2474265]

15% risk portfolio, quite happy with it. Gave me good returns until now, this week obviously not great but it seems they rebalanced well.

 

[lemonko]

25% risk here, suffering a huge loss of 7k
hopefully can rebound soon...

Sent from somewhere in your heart using GAGT

 

[Han Shot First]

15% risk portfolio, quite happy with it. Gave me good returns until now, this week obviously not great but it seems they rebalanced well.

15% risk portfolio is a good balanced Syfe portfolio to hold. When you mention "rebalanced" do you mean Syfe sold equity ETFs and bought bond ETFs? I'm wondering why @Gametaku reported that his/her 2 portfolios sold equity ETFs and did not buy bond ETFs but just held cash (from the sale of the equity ETFs).