The bears den

coolhead

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yeah i dont quite get the logic behind it
i'm an econs dummy though
It could be interpreted as returns per unit capital declines which in that case I understand. Eg, current financial asset generates $5 return for every $100 invested. Price of the asset is bidded up till $200 due to the excessive liquidity. But the same financial asset generates $5 return. While the initial ROI is 5%, the new ROI is only 2.5%. From the future perspective, this is bearish. But what is bearish when returns all over is decreasing from this angle of excessive liquidity.

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coolhead

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That dalio guy is a rich guy so what I said counts for nothing, but all he is saying is about financial assets and the central bank's drive to inflate financial assets. Nothing is mentioned about the catalyst that sparks economic turmoil/recession. The global financial crisis 2008 was sparked by a catalyst. But we don't have a catalyst yet or at least it's unknown to majority.

At the very least, I dunno yet but I do know that something is brewing among the investment community/central bank, e.g the speculation and investment into gold.

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atf0007

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伟大中华民族!
伟大中华人民共和国之辉煌!
伟大的习近平主席!
我爱共产党!
万岁!啊啊啊!

For those who dun know chinese....

"共产党!" means "communist party". Tis troll claim he is Singaporean but love China and communist party.
 

Mecisteus

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what do you guys think of ray dalio's comments on the rate cut

What he is trying to say is something like this.

In the past, 10Y was yielding 5% pa and returns from stocks was 12% pa. Risk premium was 7%. You were compensated with +7% pa for taking more risks.

Now, 10Y is yielding 2.5% pa and expected returns from stocks is 8% pa. Risk premium is lower at 5.5%.

If interest rates remain low, stocks will still give better expected returns.

If risk premium is lower or in other words valuations are rich, you don't dump 100% of your money in stocks.
 
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rtkgamer

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Why is there a bloodlust today? Any news?

LoJxH68.png
 

Mecisteus

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Those people who claimed low interests rates causing assets bubbles will just remain delusional.

I will probably agree in the short term.

In the longer term, stocks will remain attractive because of the higher expected returns.

You just need to adjust your allocation accordingly.

Just look at this 10Y chart. I doubt the rate will go back to like those in 1980s.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IRLTLT01USM156N
 

DukeCS33

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Will Fed want to tank the market when Trump election coming up?

I think Powell has just dug a very deep hole for the Fed. He is trying to placate all stakeholders but leaving none satisfied with his actions.
On the one hand, Trump and the Market is demanding for rate cuts and a rather aggressive easing path. He fell short of this. On the other hand, there has been increasing clamor from economists and top officials including 2 Fed voters that the rate cut is not necessary and by delivering one cut and dropping hints that it may be a one off, he has not amply placated this group.
I guess Powell must have been in a difficult situation but I think he should just have stuck on to a no rate cut path and not u turn from this position that was communicated to the markets just some 3 months ago. That way, the Fed's credibility and independence would have remained intact.

I suspect that the Markets, both bonds and equities would be sending more signals to tell Powell that his decision may not be the right one and Trump would add on to the political pressure. So the Fed may well be fighting the market from here and their credibility take a further hit if they were to cave in if economic data does not back up such a case.

Last night's sell off was on the back of the heaviest volume since 13 May. Immediate support would be at 2960 in the S&P500 and was the level that it bounced off against overnight. Unless we have good news from the Trade front, the Market would be unravelling the aggressive rate cut path and we may see the downside tested again. There is potential for a heavier correction from here if the Trade talks breakdown again. However, against a backdrop of excess liquidity, there would be ready bargain hunters at major support levels and one should not get carried away with shorting the market.

For long term investors, they may well await better levels to scoop up some bargains. Traders may find the increased volatility a welcome but need to take quick profits as the bearish turn in sentiments would be met with demand from the backdrop of excess liquidity. I have traded more defensively as directionally, I have been quite conflicted into the leadup to the FOMC meeting. Stops were raised to entry point at the earliest opportunity as market traded sluggish then. Now, I would be more inclined to trade short for my intraday but it depends on the opportunities presented. Good luck!
 

Hot_Dog

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The Fed is not doing their job properly imho, so much for their independence, but what the heck, going with the flow baby. :D
 

revhappy

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Duke, now the gap between US markets and rest of the world is huge. I think there are opportunities in the rest of the world now. US markets may just tread water from here.

I will be looking at allocating to ex-US markets during weakness.
 

Mecisteus

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I think Powell has just dug a very deep hole for the Fed. He is trying to placate all stakeholders but leaving none satisfied with his actions.
On the one hand, Trump and the Market is demanding for rate cuts and a rather aggressive easing path. He fell short of this. On the other hand, there has been increasing clamor from economists and top officials including 2 Fed voters that the rate cut is not necessary and by delivering one cut and dropping hints that it may be a one off, he has not amply placated this group.
I guess Powell must have been in a difficult situation but I think he should just have stuck on to a no rate cut path and not u turn from this position that was communicated to the markets just some 3 months ago. That way, the Fed's credibility and independence would have remained intact.

I suspect that the Markets, both bonds and equities would be sending more signals to tell Powell that his decision may not be the right one and Trump would add on to the political pressure. So the Fed may well be fighting the market from here and their credibility take a further hit if they were to cave in if economic data does not back up such a case.

Last night's sell off was on the back of the heaviest volume since 13 May. Immediate support would be at 2960 in the S&P500 and was the level that it bounced off against overnight. Unless we have good news from the Trade front, the Market would be unravelling the aggressive rate cut path and we may see the downside tested again. There is potential for a heavier correction from here if the Trade talks breakdown again. However, against a backdrop of excess liquidity, there would be ready bargain hunters at major support levels and one should not get carried away with shorting the market.

For long term investors, they may well await better levels to scoop up some bargains. Traders may find the increased volatility a welcome but need to take quick profits as the bearish turn in sentiments would be met with demand from the backdrop of excess liquidity. I have traded more defensively as directionally, I have been quite conflicted into the leadup to the FOMC meeting. Stops were raised to entry point at the earliest opportunity as market traded sluggish then. Now, I would be more inclined to trade short for my intraday but it depends on the opportunities presented. Good luck!

To cut long story short, I see this dip as a buying opportunity.
 

Trader11

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Central Bankers don't work alone. There must be reason why Draghi and Powell didn't cut interest rate further :)

Probably they want fiscal policy rather than monetary policy or avoid overuse interest rate protection
 
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