The Buddha and his Teachings, according to Suttas in the Pali Canon

[ouroboroso]

"Feelings are Meaningless."
" We are hardwired or programmed by nature to fear and suffer by default to help us compete and survive."
Is this harder to understand than dukka or dharma or whatever? If so, I wonder why.

I'm sure you have experienced alien lingo when speaking with Gen Z and Gen Alpha

How many of them would understand or want to understand the term Dhamma?

Terminologies change over time but traditions have more inertia so we see the gaps that you have mentioned.

Changing anything involving a supergroup of people is not a trivial matter.

The challenge is always centered on how change can be done so that it's done with the right intentions with the right outcomes.

This is why there are so many denominations of religious faith, even for Buddhism.

The evolution of religion is like an elephant walking through mud, it's messy and laborious.

 

[BennyQ]

I'm sure you have experienced alien lingo when speaking with Gen Z and Gen Alpha

How many of them would understand or want to understand the term Dhamma?

Terminologies change over time but traditions have more inertia so we see the gaps that you have mentioned.

Changing anything involving a supergroup of people is not a trivial matter.

The challenge is always centered on how change can be done so that it's done with the right intentions with the right outcomes.

That's why the sane among us trust science more. We don't say "depends" to science do we?

 

[ouroboroso]

That's why the sane among us trust science more. We don't say "depends" to science do we?

Science is also a religion. There are many schools of thought, classical physics versus quantum physics for example.

We are still seeking a unification theory. Magnetism, gravity, etc are still unexplained.

At the end of the day, we just need to keep an open mind so that we are not bogged down by dogma of any form, be it taking the label of science or religion.

The purpose of one's spiritual journey should be clear in his own mind.

 

[Elnoxv]

I'm saying people that use such words like dukka or whatever don't really wish to be understood. Or worse, don't understand it themselves.

This is a Buddhist Post, so it's inevitable that you will come across some buddhist term.
I presume most of us (who have been commenting here) have knowledge of the terms but if you don't, you could politely ask or do a google search or ask for reference.

Lastly, this is just my personal opinion:
Your last comment comes off as a little bit piss.

You said "Feelings are Meaningless" but you seem to be reacting to them.

As some points for reflection.

 

[BennyQ]

This is a Buddhist Post, so it's inevitable that you will come across some buddhist term.
I presume most of us (who have been commenting here) have knowledge of the terms but if you don't, you could politely ask or do a google search or ask for reference.

Lastly, this is just my personal opinion:
Your last comment comes off as a little bit piss.

You said "Feelings are Meaningless" but you seem to be reacting to them.

As some points for reflection.

Me pissed? Haha no lah. But I see u getting personal now. I wasn't criticising u earlier u know? I was just trying to explain that often beliefs are driven by competition and ego rather than by the actual problem itself.

 

[ouroboroso]

You said "Feelings are Meaningless" but you seem to be reacting to them.

Me pissed? Haha no lah. But I see u getting personal now. I wasn't criticising u earlier u know? I was just trying to explain that often beliefs are driven by competition and ego rather than by the actual problem itself.

We are adults with good minds and I believe a lot of good can arise from sincere and meaningful engagement.

Let's not waste the opportunity.

 

[BennyQ]

I'm sure you have experienced alien lingo when speaking with Gen Z and Gen Alpha

How many of them would understand or want to understand the term Dhamma?

Terminologies change over time but traditions have more inertia so we see the gaps that you have mentioned.

Changing anything involving a supergroup of people is not a trivial matter.

The challenge is always centered on how change can be done so that it's done with the right intentions with the right outcomes.

This is why there are so many denominations of religious faith, even for Buddhism.

The evolution of religion is like an elephant walking through mud, it's messy and laborious.

Not agreeing or disagreeing but...
I'm reminded of the time a visibly staunch and proud indian muslim from India eventually admitted to me that it was technology that more effectively reduced suffering rather than religious teaching in his homeland. Perhaps truth matters little to the blind followers or sheep. But certainly leaders and builders of the future cannot afford to have the same beliefs.

 

[Elnoxv]

Me pissed? Haha no lah. But I see u getting personal now. I wasn't criticising u earlier u know? I was just trying to explain that often beliefs are driven by competition and ego rather than by the actual problem itself.

Not really getting personal but i am just trying to point out: "you may be reacting to your own feeling by putting these combination of words" which is not congruent with what you belief. These words come off as someone who is reacting emotionally.

but if you didn't, that's great.

Lastly, Criticism is welcomed, there are part of life, an aid to reflect on our own actions.

 

[ouroboroso]

Not agreeing or disagreeing but...
I'm reminded of the time a visibly staunch and proud indian muslim from India eventually admitted to me that it was technology that more effectively reduced suffering rather than religious teaching in his homeland. Perhaps truth matters little to the blind followers or sheep. But certainly leaders and builders of the future cannot afford to have the same beliefs.

Everything happens for a reason. The way a child grows into an adult cannot be attributed to just one part of his childhood.

It's a collective and holistic evolution rooted in a multitude of factors. The same goes for humanity.

There are times when humanity takes a stumble. But there are also times when humanity has a good run and makes significant progress amidst collaboration and cooperation.

Technology is an example of how working together can create something better for everyone. But it is also a double-edged blade that can cut both ways.

Same goes for religion. It helps but it can hurt too.

At the end of the day, we just need to be aware and develop our minds diligently.

 

[Elnoxv]

We are adults with good minds and I believe a lot of good can arise from sincere and meaningful engagement.

Let's not waste the opportunity.

All bodily, verbal and mental actions with intention will create karma.

Sometimes, a stone threw out, will be thrown back to us so that we don't get too far off. Nature has its way to make us reflect on our actions.

Be it for me, or many others.

 

[BennyQ]

Not really getting personal but i am just trying to point out: "you may be reacting to your own feeling by putting these combination of words" which is not congruent with what you belief. These words come off as someone who is reacting emotionally.

but if you didn't, that's great.

Lastly, Criticism is welcomed, there are part of life, an aid to reflect on our own actions.

Oh I know liao. What u sensed was most likely my frustration accumulated from long time people not understanding or appreciating my simple idea vs entirety of buddhism. So u right that I was reacting emotionally.

 

[Elnoxv]

Oh I know liao. What u sensed was most likely my frustration accumulated from long time people not understanding or appreciating my simple idea vs entirety of buddhism. So u right that I was reacting emotionally.

You know, it takes great courage to be true to self. Not many people could actually do that so i respect your courage.

imho, your idea actually touches on certain aspect of buddhism (not self). It is actually quite close to the root but not exactly at the root yet. (of course, this is just my opinion).

Respectfully, some of us here don't just do reading we do practice meditation, contemplation and mindfulness. Some for years, some decades long, accumulating hundreds if not thousands of hours. We watch our minds as they arise and passing away. We gain insights into how our mind works. A direct experience so to speak. Some of us may have deeper understanding of our mind, some middling, some lesser. The gist is some of us know what we are talking about (maybe not to the level of buddha or noble disciples) but we do know what we are talking about to a certain extent so perhaps that's why some of us don't quite agree with your view.

And our faith is not rooted at mere blind faith but rooted on the direct experience of reality from practices so we have built a solid faith, hard to be shaked.

This is a mere suggestion.
Maybe you could give buddhism a try too. I think you are quite close to the truth, just a little nudge you may be in there.

As some thoughts.

 

[BennyQ]

You know, it takes great courage to be true to self. Not many people could actually do that so i respect your courage.

imho, your idea actually touches on certain aspect of buddhism (not self). It is actually quite close to the root but not exactly at the root yet. (of course, this is just my opinion).

Respectfully, some of us here don't just do reading we do practice meditation, contemplation and mindfulness. Some for years, some decades long, accumulating hundreds if not thousands of hours. We watch our minds as they arise and passing away. We gain insights into how our mind works. A direct experience so to speak. Some of us may have deeper understanding of our mind, some middling, some lesser. The gist is some of us know what we are talking about (maybe not to the level of buddha or noble disciples) but we do know what we are talking about to a certain extent so perhaps that's why some of us don't quite agree with your view.

And our faith is not rooted at mere blind faith but rooted on the direct experience of reality from practices so we have built a solid faith, hard to be shaked.

This is a mere suggestion.
Maybe you could give buddhism a try too. I think you are quite close to the truth, just a little nudge you may be in there.

As some thoughts.

Thanks for the kind words but I don't think I have courage. Just privileged enough to do nothing yet able to survive and think freely.

Thats why I think it is the living conditions and the system that makes suffering necessary for survival.

So I wanna imagine a system or world that gives everyone the same privileges that I enjoy to test this theory of suffering.

I think the knowledge we glean from this current system would all change if u changed the system and the conditions... thereby disproving the universality of this so called knowledge or truth. Never has there been a better time, with all the tech and science we have now, to test these ancient "truths". Of cos my main objective is not to disprove stuff but to find an even deeper and more simple and underlying truth.

 

[theokcoral]

Me pissed? Haha no lah. But I see u getting personal now. I wasn't criticising u earlier u know? I was just trying to explain that often beliefs are driven by competition and ego rather than by the actual problem itself.

There are a lot of good classes out there conducted by monasteries about Buddhism which you can attend, if you are interested (noting that you have been posting actively and raising questions/making comments about Buddhism in a thread about Buddhism). I wish you the best.

 

[BennyQ]

There are a lot of good classes out there conducted by monasteries about Buddhism which you can attend, if you are interested (noting that you have been posting actively and raising questions/making comments about Buddhism in a thread about Buddhism). I wish you the best.

Understood. Maybe I'm lazy but I'm not so much seeking to find truth through buddhism as I am recommending Buddhists to supplement their quest with ideas and knowledge from outside buddhism like the ideas I suggested.

But perhaps for many this is more about the journey than it is about the objective or destination which I thought was truth or utility. And I guess since everyone starts from different background also needs to have their own different journey. Anyway sorry to disturb this thread. Hehe.

 

[mrBooBoo]

"Feelings are Meaningless."
" We are hardwired or programmed by nature to fear and suffer by default to help us compete and survive."
Is this harder to understand than dukka or dharma or whatever? If so, I wonder why.

bro. In defense for the use of weird ass lingo, sometimes it is really not trying to ge kiang, but the semantic itself is lacking.

take dukkha for exampl. it was first translated as suffering from pali. and later it was corrected to unsatisfactoriness but it was too late cause it was already taught in schools and kinda got popularised.

There is a trade-off between familiarity and precision.


Read HWZ Forum Rules!

 

[BennyQ]

bro. In defense for the use of weird ass lingo, sometimes it is really not trying to ge kiang, but the semantic itself is lacking.

take dukkha for exampl. it was first translated as suffering from pali. and later it was corrected to unsatisfactoriness but it was too late cause it was already taught in schools and kinda got popularised.

There is a trade-off between familiarity and precision.


Read HWZ Forum Rules!

Yah lor, the language has a lot of context and nuances that requires lots of explanation and background info otherwise many can misinterpret. Guess that's what this thread is for. Sorry again for interfering guys. Heheh.

 

[Pearce]

 

[Pearce]

 

[bigrooster]

Question: Are lay followers supposed to take in wholesale whatever was told by the Buddha or Dhamma teachers without questioning, experiencing and reviewing the results?

The following well-known sutta has the answer:

AN 3.65 - Kesamutti Sutta (Kesaputtiya), Bhikkhu Bodhi translation
(This discourse is commonly called the Kālāma Sutta, but the actual title is as above)

To summarise (my simple England summary), the Buddha and his Saṅgha of monks reached a town called Kesaputta, a town of the Kālāma people. The Kālāmas told the Buddha they were confused by the many religious/sects teachers of the time, as each one was saying that what they taught was the best and other rival faiths/sects were lousy. The Buddha told them not to accept things as it were, but instead to experience and assess if a particular teaching or method promotes/discourage greed, hatred, and delusion; and to assess if that teaching/method resulted in wholesome, blameless actions/results or otherewise. Then they decide if they should adopt it.

Excerpt:
“Come, Kālāmas, do not go by oral tradition, by lineage of teaching, by hearsay, by a collection of scriptures, by logical reasoning, by inferential reasoning, by reasoned cogitation, by the acceptance of a view after pondering it, by the seeming competence of a speaker, or because you think: ‘The ascetic is our guru.’ But when you know for yourselves: ‘These things are wholesome; these things are blameless; these things are praised by the wise; these things, if accepted and undertaken, lead to welfare and happiness,’ then you should live in accordance with them."

This discourse also encourage lay people to do good without having to die die accept the theory of kamma and rebirth, if they are not yet ready to do so.

Excerpt:
“This noble disciple, Kālāmas, whose mind is in this way without enmity, without ill will, undefiled, and pure, has won four assurances in this very life.

“The first assurance he has won is this: ‘If there is another world, and if there is the fruit and result of good and bad deeds, it is possible that with the breakup of the body, after death, I will be reborn in a good destination, in a heavenly world.’

“The second assurance he has won is this: ‘If there is no other world, and there is no fruit and result of good and bad deeds, still right here, in this very life, I maintain myself in happiness, without enmity and ill will, free of trouble.

“The third assurance he has won is this: ‘Suppose evil comes to one who does evil. Then, when I have no evil intentions toward anyone, how can suffering afflict me, since I do no evil deed?’

“The fourth assurance he has won is this: ‘Suppose evil does not come to one who does evil. Then right here I see myself purified in both respects.’"