The Watch Thread - Part 10

[patryn33]

What is more stable and more accurate?
2824 can also meet COSC spec...
Ppl did consider 2824 more robust as its thicker
2824 cannot meet 1sec req? I need to google up on that.

Daytona mod EP to make it perfect? There is a nice write up on watchtime on Rolex EP and Daytona movement and why it is mod..
Perfect? Well it's fits their application not perfect lol

 

[Shyn85]

What is more stable and more accurate?
2824 can also meet COSC spec...

Cosc is only +4/-6, not really accurate compare to really accurate brand like Rolex zenith. That is machanica improve like change the rotor way to improve the auto winding, if u really want to know I can re-search and explain to u. But the true is 2892 is the most top luxury brand for their entry range.

 

[Seannie]

2892 not only improve slim down and auto winding, it is more stable and more accurate, 2892 some brand can make it in 1s per day and stable, but 2824 cannot.

:'(

 

[Ed.YEO]

movement - have u really think 2824 is the best movement? it is just because of 2824 cheap but not a great, if yes why eta improve to 2892? Yes, steinhart have 7750, since u said u more focus the movement, 7750 a great movement we all know but have u really think steinhart done a great job for the movement? to me they just done the great movement polishing, not really improve the movement. tell me how accurate your steinhart 7750, IWC 7750 can make it 1s per day or less. (we talk about movement not a brand and price)

price - maybe, let try compare to the tissot visodate 2836 and the le locle 2824 cosc, same price same spec and I believe tissot more easier to get factory service compare to steinhart. agree?

design - again steinhart... seem like u very like the steinhart, haha... ok the most hot selling model is pilot, diver, marine... this all not their own design, even the apollon and triton also not a totally own design. but yes they have some special model like ST10, or russian forum model, and this custom design have to wait few year to complete. special right?

brand - brand = spend! agree?

i remember got someone bro ask u to save money to get a real watch, i believe he is not asking u must buy rolex or. like u very like to collect watch and mention movement priority, why not just get some vintage movement like valjoux 72 or manual winding with center second? even some vintage longines, omega, rolex even zenith movement also very nice and easy to service. just save 2-3 steinhart already can get one.

ps: money is your one, u spend u happy. I just geipo nia

不～～～不算雞婆啦。只是彼此看法的交流而已嘛。。。

所謂，一山必有一山高。當然2824也許不是最好的，但必定是多年以來最受信賴的汗馬級機芯。無論什麼品牌，低檔，中級，高端都用這機芯，唯一不同就只是不同等級，還有不同修改來強化機芯平淡的三針功能而已。其實在2824之前，更加常見的機芯還有產自A.Schlid（不知道有沒拼錯），還有未被Swatch集團收購之前的Valjoux。。。其77系列計時錶或許歷史更加久吧。。。
我並不是在唱Steinhart的好。而是一直在強調Steinhart採用的是經歷多年磨練，高量生產又不失質的平凡機芯。
無論是2824，2834，2836，還是2892，2893，2894，2895。。。其實都是2801的延伸品。。。289x的機芯與280x/2x/3x相比，289x的勝算就落在厚度夠薄了。。。
談到機芯，除了ETA/Valjoux/Unitas之外，我最欣賞的該屬Zenith了。。。就連普羅大眾歡迎的“高級名牌”都有一段日子要採用Zenith機芯來推動他們的錶款？難道那皇冠在採用Zenith機芯之前，賣了那麼多年的錶，赚了那麼多錢就沒有技術去自己設計自家的計時機芯？要等到若干年之後才能有那能耐推出自家產品？Hmmm... 很有趣喲。。。既然你把IWC也扯進來了，IWC的基本計時錶款價格賣得那麼高，還採用“高量生產的平凡芯”，那麼多年也是賺得不清不楚啦。。。就算推出自家芯，也還是再用“經過工程調整，授權三方製造”的7750？怎麼就沒有那能耐參考Venus的舊工程藍圖搞出自己的“引擎”咧？

談到錶價。。。以一隻Visodate的價格可以買到天文台級LeLocle 2824錶款？哇～～～我是錯過了哪個熱銷會呀？據我了解一張COSC證書可要大概超過400美元的代價喲。。。
為什麼我總是把機芯擺在第一位？因為從機芯的等級，複雜功能，我就從那裡衡量一隻錶該值得多少。畢竟我的第一抉擇不是看品牌的，哪隻錶值不值得買，就在機芯，設計，外觀，工質上有下多少功夫了。

談到設計了。之前你問到，

Which model is real iconic design by the brand in your collection?

我的收集之中的品牌，有哪個設計最有代表性。我提到APOLLON，你卻說那很平凡，沒有什麼特色。或者吧。。。也許你是對的，也許你有見過這樣的設計。。。

。。。可是我卻沒有。在外我如果遠遠的看到另一個人的手腕戴著這只，我就有九成把握肯定那個錶友必定是戴著APOLLON。除非我眼花了，將他人的“JLC”誤認為平價錶款。。。哈～～～

品牌方面，在現代的環境裡沒有什麼好談的。。。唯一能夠保證的是名聲有多響亮，擁有者的光環就有多亮。除了那品牌的價值能夠帶來多少的回收，誰會去在乎一個品牌的精神在那裡呀？
對我來說，Steinhart與精工代表了“平價不失質”，山度士代表“平價不失味”，梅花呢，代表“平價不失精”。
一隻錶，買了就是要戴。戴了就是要平伏自己心中一直要得到的那個“味”。買了一隻貴錶不戴，怕東怕西的，擺入出櫥櫃，心血來潮時拿出來望望看看，望梅止渴。。。日子過得那麼辛苦，還是不買的好。

最後一段，何不買只有“價值”的錶，就算是老舊的手動上鏈款也值得。。。
有呀怎麼會沒有咧。。。Valjoux7734年曆+月相+計時的機芯，現代外形設計的。。。該算可以吧？

 

[Seannie]

就連普羅大眾歡迎的“高級名牌”都有一段日子要採用Zenith機芯來推動他們的錶款？難道那皇冠在採用Zenith機芯之前，賣了那麼多年的錶，赚了那麼多錢就沒有技術去自己設計自家的計時機芯？要等到若干年之後才能有那能耐推出自家產品？
IWC的基本計時錶款價格賣得那麼高，還採用“高量生產的平凡芯”，那麼多年也是賺得不清不楚啦。。。就算推出自家芯，也還是再用“經過工程調整，授權三方製造”的7750？怎麼就沒有那能耐參考Venus的舊工程藍圖搞出自己的“引擎”咧？

Overpriced u mean?

 

[sleepyman]

Can see u are a vintage rolex guy and from the pics posted, they do look pretty good!

Where do u usually get your vintages and any tips on your usual routine to ensure authenticity/non-franken? TIA!

Hey bro, thanks for the compliments.

I get some from online.. get to know, then meet the seller. Also, from known watch shops. Every piece has a history, so, its a passion to gather knowledge and experience.

Vintage isnt just about picking off the shelf. Blame the limited availability,finding one that you got "feel" could take time!

Mine are entry level pieces.. so authentication isnt too difficult. But "franken" pieces can be a nuisance. Having some friends locally helps. Of course, VRF is a rich resource.

Its all part of the journey and i do get satisfaction from the envious glances and compliments as i wear a timepiece that subtly stands out of the mainstream.

 

[Shyn85]

談到機芯，除了ETA/Valjoux/Unitas之外，我最欣賞的該屬Zenith了。。。就連普羅大眾歡迎的“高級名牌”都有一段日子要採用Zenith機芯來推動他們的錶款？難道那皇冠在採用Zenith機芯之前，賣了那麼多年的錶，赚了那麼多錢就沒有技術去自己設計自家的計時機芯？要等到若干年之後才能有那能耐推出自家產品？Hmmm... 很有趣喲。。。既然你把IWC也扯進來了，IWC的基本計時錶款價格賣得那麼高，還採用“高量生產的平凡芯”，那麼多年也是賺得不清不楚啦。。。就算推出自家芯，也還是再用“經過工程調整，授權三方製造”的7750？怎麼就沒有那能耐參考Venus的舊工程藍圖搞出自己的“引擎”咧？

談到錶價。。。以一隻Visodate的價格可以買到天文台級LeLocle 2824錶款？哇～～～我是錯過了哪個熱銷會呀？據我了解一張COSC證書可要大概超過400美元的代價喲。。。
為什麼我總是把機芯擺在第一位？因為從機芯的等級，複雜功能，我就從那裡衡量一隻錶該值得多少。畢竟我的第一抉擇不是看品牌的，哪隻錶值不值得買，就在機芯，設計，外觀，工質上有下多少功夫了。

dun get me wrong, i means for the low price steinhart can get visodate and the high price and get the le locle cosc.

have u really think use the eta movement can earn a lot of money compare to in-house movement? haha

 

[user14]

Going to pangkang soon ... haven't been wearing this for quite a while as my matching redwings went for sole recrafting and just came back after 2 months ...

More details please? On the watch and strap.

Reminds me of a port hole on a ship. Very nice.

 

[jonleelk]

More details please? On the watch and strap.

Reminds me of a port hole on a ship. Very nice.

Strap is from here. USD55. I email them whether they have a leather that is similar to Red Wings Beckam Cigar Featherstone and they suggested a close match.
http://www.steveostraps.com

Watch is actually a mod Seiko skx007.
Dial: http://s161.photobucket.com/user/yobokies/media/Dial/IMG_0001.jpg.html?sort=3&o=17
Hands: http://s161.photobucket.com/user/yobokies/media/Hands/IMG_4734.jpg.html?sort=3&o=110
Bezel and chapter ring: http://s161.photobucket.com/user/yobokies/media/Bezel Inserts/IMG_0261.jpg.html?sort=3&o=61

 

[slow_mo]

Going to pangkang soon ... haven't been wearing this for quite a while as my matching redwings went for sole recrafting and just came back after 2 months ...

The dial looks like the Sinn that I had...

 

[confusedboi]

Sold off my ball fireman earlier today. Seiko blue monster last week. Time for a new watch to fill the void . Deciding between steinhart titanium or seiko sarx033 >_< diver vs dress. Steinhart arounf 800 plus sgd from gnomon. seiko need to order from Japan about 1k plus.

 

[Ed.YEO]

price - maybe, let try compare to the tissot visodate 2836 and the le locle 2824 cosc, same price same spec and I believe tissot more easier to get factory service compare to steinhart. agree?

dun get me wrong, i means for the low price steinhart can get visodate and the high price and get the le locle cosc.

have u really think use the eta movement can earn a lot of money compare to in-house movement? haha

哈～～～看錯了，就誤解了整個句子的意思。。。
的確一隻Visodate可頂一隻Steinhart。。。但是你沒有提到哪個款式呀。。。我就可以拿只潛水錶來反問咯。。。Visodate可以入水能遊吧？

談到機芯。自家對高產，哪個賺錢比較多，就要看從哪個角度去看了。
我的目光比較短淺，所以看到的只是在於機芯成本價而已。以瑞士機芯來看，高產的ETA/Valjoux/Unitas都是比較便宜的，唯一分別就是只在於機芯等級。不過還是可以便宜到製錶大廠賺到笑。一只COSC 2824機芯多少錢呀？賣給同一屋簷下的Tissot，MIDO，Longines，Rado多少錢呀？賣給集團外的客戶又是多少錢呀？名牌製錶大廠會在完成品標價多少？小品牌又會標價多少？

我這只COSC 7753，含運費+消費稅，不到2500。應該沒有其他大眾品牌可以辦得到的吧。。。

對我來說凡是標上“自家”，製造成本以同樣功能簡單性還是複雜性對比，必定比高量產的機芯價格來得高。這往往與自家設計的部件規格還有產量有相對的關係。。。試想想，如果今天的Nomos Club不是採用自家的Alpha，而是採用高量產的Paseux7001，價格會是如何？哪個又會比較有“賺頭”？

 

[Ed.YEO]

...Deciding between steinhart titanium or seiko sarx033 >_< diver vs dress. Steinhart arounf 800 plus sgd from gnomon. seiko need to order from Japan about 1k plus.

Gnomon Steinhart OT500 800多的好像是樹膠錶帶的配置吧，而且還沒算消費稅。。。要是我沒記錯的話，鋼帶的過千。。。

 

[Thai_Rak_Thai]

Happy Papa Day weekend

 

[Ed.YEO]

像嗎？

當然少了一些“深度”。。。

 

[yes1705]

My first automatic mechanical watch may be an oldie, she is definitely a goodie.

 

[Shyn85]

對我來說凡是標上“自家”，製造成本以同樣功能簡單性還是複雜性對比，必定比高量產的機芯價格來得高。這往往與自家設計的部件規格還有產量有相對的關係。。。試想想，如果今天的Nomos Club不是採用自家的Alpha，而是採用高量產的Paseux7001，價格會是如何？哪個又會比較有“賺頭”？

Hmmm..... Yes 2.5k really no luxury brand can beat it.

u right, micro brand more valuable.

 

[Ed.YEO]

JonLee師兄的還不算很像，錶殼太厚了。。。
真正80%比較像的。。。

我相信這裡應該還有不少師兄弟有的。。。

 

[Ed.YEO]

。。。u right, micro brand more valuable.

每個人對於“值”的看法有不同角度的觀點。。。問題是在於往哪裡看。

如果我是往品牌的角度去看，叫我付上近6000的價格買只Breitling三針COSC 28xx錶款，沒得計時我也願意。還是用7750的IWC，要賣8000的水貨我也願意買下。。。有得在賣出的時候收回一些，60%也值。

如果我是往工質的角度去看，叫我付出3000（還是4000多？）多買只浪琴Master Collection計時月相非COSC7751錶款我也願意。。。功能比7753更加複雜嘛。。。

 

[confusedboi]

In the end ordered sarx033 from seiya Japan. Was hesitating over the past few days. Then realized today price increase from USD 768 to USD 798 :/ went to big time to try out seiko brightz and sarbo33 which are " related ". Brightz is nice but too big IMO for a dress watch. Quite thick surprisingly