Trust in CPF?

[fr33d0m]

Erm... not helping. But do what you feel is comfortable.

You can be sceptical about everything. But it does not sound smart without any proof.


Tomorrow may never come, did you spend everything yesterday?

Possibility and probability are different.

 

[w1rbelw1nd]

Oh, the typical " not happy, pack up and f*** off" argument", how original! xD

Btw, we don't have the choice in investing in CPF. Does that mean we should shut up and not contribute our views on how it can be improved?

You don't have to believe me, I am involved in PA where I have more direct feedback channels to MP (not working much), and I write to straits times forum frequently on public policies.

CPF itself is just a fund. Like any other investment fund, you as investor has no power to change directors of its trustee or the fund managers.

You as investor, are not the owner of the trustee. So you have no power to change its strategy.

If you don’t like its strategy, you can exit the fund by renouncing your citizenship and leave Singapore and west Malaysia.

 

[fr33d0m]

Oh, the typical " not happy, pack up and f*** off" argument", how original! xD

Btw, we don't have the choice in investing in CPF. Does that mean we should shut up and not contribute our views on how it can be improved?

You don't have to believe me, I am involved in PA where I have more direct feedback channels to MP (not working much), and I write to straits times forum frequently on public policies.

You voiced your view every election unless you did not vote.

Whether your idea is agreed by the rest is a different matter.

If enough people want to abolish CPF, CPF will be gone.

You, as a citizen of Singapore has to abide its law, which includes mandate for CPF contributions.

 

[w1rbelw1nd]

I don't disagree with what you say now. But please note that dissenting views matters, and agreeing to disagree is just part of a mature, democratic country.

Yes, I am obliged to contribute to CPF, but does it mean that I have no rights to voice out the minuses of using it as part of a investment plans? Do I have no rights to criticise it? Do I have to forsake my residency just because I disagree with it?

You voiced your view every election unless you did not vote.

Whether your idea is agreed by the rest is a different matter.

If enough people want to abolish CPF, CPF will be gone.

You, as a citizen of Singapore has to abide its law, which includes mandate for CPF contributions.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Do I have to forsake my residency just because I disagree with it?

The answer to your last question is yes, you must give up your right of residency in Singapore if you disagree with CPF, have income from work in Singapore, and don't want to participate in CPF. Membership has privileges...and a very few obligations, in this case an obligation to society not to become utterly destitute in your golden years if you've been able to generate a reasonable or better income from work in Singapore.

Please note that while you cannot opt out of CPF compulsory contributions (if you work for income in Singapore and have the right of abode in Singapore), you can opt out of CPF LIFE. All you need to do to opt out of CPF LIFE is to buy a life annuity policy from a reputable insurance company that equals or betters the CPF LIFE payout (BRS level with property pledge, or FRS level without) then fill out the opt-out form. But you must have at least minimum longevity insurance in Singapore if you maintain the right of abode in Singapore, just as you must maintain at least minimum medical insurance (MediShield Life, or an Integrated Shield plan if you prefer).

That's the bottom line. Society does not want to assume these risks for you. They're your risks that you must handle, in an extremely modest way. (CPF LIFE and MediShield Life ain't lavish.)

 

[w1rbelw1nd]

Wow your answer is really epic. Guess many informed, educated individuals who will naturally disagree with certain policies will have no citizenship status!

The answer to your last question is yes, you must give up your right of residency in Singapore if you disagree with CPF, have income from work in Singapore, and don't want to participate in CPF. Membership has privileges...and a very few obligations, in this case an obligation to society not to become utterly destitute in your golden years if you've been able to generate a reasonable or better income from work in Singapore.

Please note that while you cannot opt out of CPF compulsory contributions (if you work for income in Singapore and have the right of abode in Singapore), you can opt out of CPF LIFE. All you need to do to opt out of CPF LIFE is to buy a life annuity policy from a reputable insurance company that equals or betters the CPF LIFE payout (BRS level with property pledge, or FRS level without) then fill out the opt-out form. But you must have at least minimum longevity insurance in Singapore if you maintain the right of abode in Singapore, just as you must maintain at least minimum medical insurance (MediShield Life, or an Integrated Shield plan if you prefer).

That's the bottom line. Society does not want to assume these risks for you. They're your risks that you must handle, in an extremely modest way. (CPF LIFE and MediShield Life ain't lavish.)

 

[SibehHL]

The answer to your last question is yes, you must give up your right of residency in Singapore if you disagree with CPF, have income from work in Singapore, and don't want to participate in CPF. Membership has privileges...and a very few obligations, in this case an obligation to society not to become utterly destitute in your golden years if you've been able to generate a reasonable or better income from work in Singapore.

Quote you above so don't say I have taken it out of context. Surely one can disagree with CPF policies while it does not mean one must give up right of residency rights. Does it mean I have to vote Opposition if I disagree with CPF? Come on, be a bit more professional than that.

I would agree that you might have given some good advice and express some good opinions. But let others disagree and don't behave like a child.

 

[Perisher]

You can be sceptical about everything. But it does not sound smart without any proof.


Tomorrow may never come, did you spend everything yesterday?

Possibility and probability are different.

Same with etf.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Guess many informed, educated individuals who will naturally disagree with certain policies will have no citizenship status!

"Many" is known: about 1,200 citizens per year, for all reasons. CPF-related obligations are likely not a common motivation(*), but they are a possible one.

There's no data available on how many of the ~1,200/year are informed and educated.

(*) Especially because there are precisely zero CPF-related obligations for long-term Singaporean residents of other countries. Even MediShield Life premiums are avoidable in such cases.

 

[hwmook]

The answer to your last question is yes, you must give up your right of residency in Singapore if you disagree with CPF, have income from work in Singapore, and don't want to participate in CPF. Membership has privileges...and a very few obligations, in this case an obligation to society not to become utterly destitute in your golden years if you've been able to generate a reasonable or better income from work in Singapore.

Please note that while you cannot opt out of CPF compulsory contributions (if you work for income in Singapore and have the right of abode in Singapore), you can opt out of CPF LIFE. All you need to do to opt out of CPF LIFE is to buy a life annuity policy from a reputable insurance company that equals or betters the CPF LIFE payout (BRS level with property pledge, or FRS level without) then fill out the opt-out form. But you must have at least minimum longevity insurance in Singapore if you maintain the right of abode in Singapore, just as you must maintain at least minimum medical insurance (MediShield Life, or an Integrated Shield plan if you prefer).

That's the bottom line. Society does not want to assume these risks for you. They're your risks that you must handle, in an extremely modest way. (CPF LIFE and MediShield Life ain't lavish.)

So you are saying that we have to vote out the government if we disagree with the policy?

 

[Perisher]

"Many" is known: about 1,200 citizens per year, for all reasons. CPF-related obligations are likely not a common motivation, but they are a possible one.

There's no data available on how many of the ~1,200/year are informed and educated.

Quite sure that cpf is a part of the equation for most of not all who choose to throw the citizenship given the $$ involved.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Surely one can disagree with CPF policies while it does not mean one must give up right of residency rights.

Here's what I wrote:

The answer to your last question is yes, you must give up your right of residency in Singapore if you disagree with CPF, have income from work in Singapore, and don't want to participate in CPF.

(Emphasis mine.) The word "and" has meaning. CPF contributions from income from work in Singapore are compulsory. If you don't want to participate in CPF but still want to work in Singapore, you must give up your right of residency in Singapore...and then get an Employment Pass or other valid work permission. That's a factually correct statement, exactly as written.

 

[Perisher]

Here's what I wrote:


(Emphasis mine.) The word "and" has meaning. CPF contributions from income from work in Singapore are compulsory. If you don't want to participate in CPF but still want to work in Singapore, you must give up your right of residency in Singapore...and then get an Employment Pass or other valid work permission. That's a factually correct statement, exactly as written.

If one Disagree with it, doesn’t equal one need to do anything. Factually wrong statement. Suggest you look again.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Quite sure that cpf is a part of the equation for most of not all who choose to throw the citizenship given the $$ involved.

I'm highly confident that the Singaporeans ditching their citizenships are mostly doing so to facilitate the firm right of residence in a country (or countries, e.g. an EU citizenship) they prefer, and because the Singapore government requires passport monogamy. National Service-related considerations probably affect a substantial number of that ~1,200.

CPF doesn't mean anything for an overseas Singaporean who never contributed or only trivially contributed, except as a possible savings opportunity. Ex-Singaporeans who did contribute to CPF are allowed (but not obligated) to withdraw their full balances (only in full, not partially) at any time after they renounce. There is some number among the ~1,200 who might be renouncing in order to drain their CPF accounts, but I doubt it's a large percentage.

Either way, this option is available to you. You'll need to line up another citizenship -- Singapore tries hard to prevent ex-Singaporeans from becoming stateless -- but it can be done. A few citizenships are effectively available for sale.

 

[BBCWatcher]

If one Disagree with it, doesn’t equal one need to do anything.

I never said it did. Somebody else bolded only a part of what I wrote. I said you must disagree and take specific action based on that disagreement (attempt to stop contributing to CPF) and want to continue working in Singapore.

 

[mummy1234]

Cpf life and medishield life r good policies. Gels with MM2H now. Hopefully when I am old, still gels.

 

[Perisher]

I never said it did. Somebody else bolded only a part of what I wrote. I said you must disagree and take specific action based on that disagreement (attempt to stop contributing to CPF) and want to continue working in Singapore.

I guess you don’t see how it can be interpreted the other way. Look at what wind ask again. Futile to talk to you.

 

[fr33d0m]

I don't disagree with what you say now. But please note that dissenting views matters, and agreeing to disagree is just part of a mature, democratic country.

Yes, I am obliged to contribute to CPF, but does it mean that I have no rights to voice out the minuses of using it as part of a investment plans? Do I have no rights to criticise it? Do I have to forsake my residency just because I disagree with it?

Many citizens voice their disagreement with the government and its policy. But disagreement alone is not enough to repeal the law. You have to have enough MPs to support it.

You can voice your disagreement, however, you must abide the law as Long as you are a citizen of Singapore and live in Singapore.

 

[beautyseek]

Now interest rates moving up, even for SSBs and 10yr SGS, will we be looking to more than 2.5% for our hard earned lock up funds which have no exit until old age (30-40 yr fixed deposit)? I am wondering the cost of funds vis-a-vis investment income on this huge pool of funds from citizens.

 

[Maeda_Toshiie]

Of course.

CPF has a board of directors and issues annual report.

The strategy of CPF is very simple: invest in special SGS, which is backed by the full faith of the Singapore government.

Whether government wins or loses, the government has to pay, at worst through raising tax on everyone and every company in Singapore.


How many public listed companies tell you everything they do? How many funds tell you everything they own?

And does the CPF board does so? Does the government do so? How can the CPF board be MORE TRANSPARENT when publicly listed companies hold AGMs where at the very least you can ask the management questions? Even if they do dodge questions (and sure many a company management team do), you get the opportunity to look at them straight in the eye when they lie. AGMs are not merely for getting buffet food or vouchers.