UNISIM VS UOL RECOGNITION

[Number_Theory123]

Now I wonder what UOL have to say about country like Nigeria do not recognize UOL external degree for employment?

[The National Universities Commission (NUC) has announced that the under-listed “Universities” have not been licensed by the Federal Government and are, therefore, operating illegally in violation of Education (National Minimum Standards etc) Act CAP E3 Law of the Federation of Nigeria 2004.

List number 30) London External Studies UK operating anywhere in Nigeria.

The statement also added that “For the avoidance of doubt, anybody who patronizes or obtains any certificate from any of these illegal institutions does so at his or her own risk. Certificates obtained from these sources will not be recognized for the purposes of NYSC, employment, and further studies. The relevant Law enforcement agencies have also been informed for their further necessary action.”]

Source: Nuc Releases List Of 36 Illegal Universities - Education - Nairaland

If in S'pore our CPE does the same thing as what nigeria did, it would be so much better.

Too bad our government does not have a body to assess the recognition of any degree programme.

Anyway, which ever DL programme it is, be it the UOL DL or not, DL programmes always are not that well-regarded by employers irrespective of the country as DL programmes have rather generous entry requirements and most DL programme exists for profit reasons.

Base on these two reasons alone, it has resulted in employers discrimination of it.

 

[Kyoji83]

Our government do have a body to assess the recognition of any degree programme. In fact, there are 2 level before one can open a private school with an appropriate name, registration of teachers, registration of new course(s) & etc. One is MOE & another one is CPE.

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MOE.

[Current regulations require private schools conducting educational courses such as those stated above to be registered with the Ministry of Education (MOE). General enquiries can be made with MOE Customer Service Centre (Tel: 6872-2220) located at Ground Floor, Podium Block, MOE Building.

With effect from 30 August 2004, all applications for registration of private schools (and its branches) are to be carried out online through the Online Business Licensing Service (OBLS). Please read the information notes for school registration thoroughly before logging on to the online application. Only proposed members of the School Committee of Management can apply.

With effect from 3 July 2006, all applications to register Teachers, Courses and Members of the Committee Management will only be carried out online through OBLS. Relocation/Expansion, and Change of School Name of private school will also be carried out solely through OBLS. Services for the closure of private schools are also available via OBLS.]

Source: Ministry of Education, Singapore: Education System: Private Education: Registering Schools

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Council for Private Education (CPE)

[Established under the Private Education Act, the Council for Private Education (CPE) is a statutory board sanctioned with the legislative power to regulate the private education sector. In addition to its role as the sectoral regulator of private education institutions (PEIs), the Council facilitates capability development efforts to uplift standards in the local private education industry.]

Source: http://www.cpe.gov.sg/about-cpe/about-cpe

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There is always discrimination between Universities, Employers & etc regrading how you get your degree. These are the ranking.

1) Onshore Oncampus Degree
2) Offshore Oncampus Degree
3) Franchised Degree (With Education Service Provider)
4) Validated Degree (With Education Service Provider)
5) Online Degree

However in Singapore, most of the organization in private sector are open to any mode of study on how you get your degree (expect online degree) as it is only used for accountable that you have meet the requirement of the position.

As for government related sector like MOE, depend if they have the ball to take non-tradition source of hiring.

If in S'pore our CPE does the same thing as what nigeria did, it would be so much better.

Too bad our government does not have a body to assess the recognition of any degree programme.

Anyway, which ever DL programme it is, be it the UOL DL or not, DL programmes always are not that well-regarded by employers irrespective of the country as DL programmes have rather generous entry requirements and most DL programme exists for profit reasons.

Base on these two reasons alone, it has resulted in employers discrimination of it.

 

[Number_Theory123]

Our government do have a body to assess the recognition of any degree programme. In fact, there are 2 level before one can open a private school with an appropriate name, registration of teachers, registration of new course(s) & etc. One is MOE & another one is CPE.

-----------------------------------------------------------

MOE.

[Current regulations require private schools conducting educational courses such as those stated above to be registered with the Ministry of Education (MOE). General enquiries can be made with MOE Customer Service Centre (Tel: 6872-2220) located at Ground Floor, Podium Block, MOE Building.

With effect from 30 August 2004, all applications for registration of private schools (and its branches) are to be carried out online through the Online Business Licensing Service (OBLS). Please read the information notes for school registration thoroughly before logging on to the online application. Only proposed members of the School Committee of Management can apply.

With effect from 3 July 2006, all applications to register Teachers, Courses and Members of the Committee Management will only be carried out online through OBLS. Relocation/Expansion, and Change of School Name of private school will also be carried out solely through OBLS. Services for the closure of private schools are also available via OBLS.]

Source: Ministry of Education, Singapore: Education System: Private Education: Registering Schools

-----------------------------------------------------------

Council for Private Education (CPE)

[Established under the Private Education Act, the Council for Private Education (CPE) is a statutory board sanctioned with the legislative power to regulate the private education sector. In addition to its role as the sectoral regulator of private education institutions (PEIs), the Council facilitates capability development efforts to uplift standards in the local private education industry.]

Source: Council for Private Education | About CPE

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There is always discrimination between Universities, Employers & etc regrading how you get your degree. These are the ranking.

1) Onshore Oncampus Degree
2) Offshore Oncampus Degree
3) Franchised Degree (With Education Service Provider)
4) Validated Degree (With Education Service Provider)
5) Online Degree

However in Singapore, most of the organization in private sector are open to any mode of study on how you get your degree (expect online degree) as it is only used for accountable that you have meet the requirement of the position.

As for government related sector like MOE, depend if they have the ball to take non-tradition source of hiring.

Meaning S'pore government recognize the UOL external system while the Nigeria's government does not?

Could be that the institution that provide tuition for the UOL external exams, in Nigeria, standards are not up to par in terms of school facilities and etc thus the Nigeria's government does not allow it to run.

If not, how can it be that Nigeria's government do not recognize the UOL external system while the S'pore government does.

Don't tell me Singapore's CPE not up to par lol.

I doubt that the CPE will assess the recognition of any degree programme run by the respective private institutions but the CPE ensures that minimum standards are adhere to in terms of how the private institution is run but not the quality of the degree programme.

 

[Havok_ex]

I believe singapore's CPE doesnt really vet the quality of education of a private institution. In a sense, they just make sure that students are PROTECTED. This is done by making sure the schools have some sort of credibility or insurance in case teachers or lecturers bail. Also, it is a body that hold institutions accountable for ensuring that the students receive an education because they paid for it. They dont really care if the education is good or bad. They just make sure the education is present.

To sum it up, just because a school has CPE doesnt means its good or 'recognised'.

 

[Number_Theory123]

I believe singapore's CPE doesnt really vet the quality of education of a private institution. In a sense, they just make sure that students are PROTECTED. This is done by making sure the schools have some sort of credibility or insurance in case teachers or lecturers bail. Also, it is a body that hold institutions accountable for ensuring that the students receive an education because they paid for it. They dont really care if the education is good or bad. They just make sure the education is present.

To sum it up, just because a school has CPE doesnt means its good or 'recognised'.

Also it does not mean it is not good or not recognize as well.

 

[Havok_ex]

Also it does not mean it is not good or not recognize as well.

No no! Of course I'm not trying to say that either!! Just that prospective students might see that a school got CPE liao then go to the school thinking its damn zai. But in the end its not what the student might think.

In all honesty. I never once believed that a degree is a means for a job. I still hold fast to the opinion that degrees are an undertaking that one pursues in order to get an EDUCATION. A wholesome education(that can be achieved through diverse electives) that makes a person a BETTER person. Thats why I dont like how universities are run nowadays. Everyone go to biz/accountancy just for the money. Nobody is interested in expanding their knowledge and opening their minds. They just want to study ONE subject and earn big bucks when they graduate.

Tbh, its not the students' faults, we live in a society that pushes us to make more and more money. Government doesnt care about your education, they just want you to be productive in the end. No matter how.

 

[patryn33]

I love the indian comment! Study in india and dream of working in uk?
what are the chances? unemployment in uk isnt exactly low.

We can say the same with other oz degree here and wanna go oz. Not branded external but just as hard even with a GO8 paper.

Not so easy to leave man to uk/usa/oz, indian ft with uol external paper is certainly welcome here. Lol

Wonder if there are any updates since this is back in 2009
www.nairaland.com/228002/nuc-releases-list-36-illegal

UNIERSITY OF LONDON EXTERNAL SYSTEM IS LEGAL AND NOT UNDER THE CONTROL OF NUC BUT THE BRITISH COUNCIL.HOWEVER MAY BE WHAT THE NUC RELEASED MY BE AN ILLEGAL; OR A CAMPUS NOT AFFILIATED TO THE UNIVERSITY OF LONDON BUT ACTING AS A CAMPUS OF SAME.

 

[Kyoji83]

The newest update is on 2012 for the list of illegal degree awarding institutions.

Source: LIST OF ILLEGAL DEGREE AWARDING INSTITUTIONS IN NIGERIA: BEWARE!!! -NUC

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That Indian is just like some Singaporeans study in Singapore and dream of working in UK but we all know unemployment in UK is high which we wonder what is the chances of those dreamers getting a job in UK?

Indian & other FT graduate come here by studying our local university at post graduate level because they believe having a local qualification can help them find job & duration of stay can help them get PR.

They must really thank our government for these opportunities when Singaporean cannot get it.

I love the indian comment! Study in india and dream of working in uk?
what are the chances? unemployment in uk isnt exactly low.

We can say the same with other oz degree here and wanna go oz. Not branded external but just as hard even with a GO8 paper.

Not so easy to leave man to uk/usa/oz, indian ft with uol external paper is certainly welcome here. Lol

Wonder if there are any updates since this is back in 2009
Nuc Releases List Of 36 Illegal Universities - Education - Nairaland

 

[Kyoji83]

Meaning S'pore government recognize the UOL external system while the Nigeria's government does not?

Singapore government like MOE recognize private school to operate courses like UOL external system with approve teachers because it is registered with MOE & the degree courses it take will not turn up to be degree mills.

Could be that the institution that provide tuition for the UOL external exams, in Nigeria, standards are not up to par in terms of school facilities and etc thus the Nigeria's government does not allow it to run.

If not, how can it be that Nigeria's government do not recognize the UOL external system while the S'pore government does.

I cannot comment on why Nigeria's government want to prevent courses like UOL external system but what I can confirm is the list say 'London External Studies UK operating anywhere in Nigeria'.

Don't tell me Singapore's CPE not up to par lol.

I doubt that the CPE will assess the recognition of any degree programme run by the respective private institutions but the CPE ensures that minimum standards are adhere to in terms of how the private institution is run but not the quality of the degree programme.

CPE ensure private school is registered with MOE together with courses & teachers as double confirm that the private school is clear to operate this course in Singapore. On top of that, they act like 'case trust' which ensure student have protection such as insurance & student know what they are signing for in their contract.

In term of recognition of any degree programme for higher education & employment are never the job of MOE & CPE. So take distance learning & onshore oncampus overseas education at your own risk.

 

[Bedokian]

Hmmm....UOL-DL graduate here, and I must say I am a little bit hurt at the impressions of my alma mater.

Eventually, however, a degree is just a key to open to another door of possibilities. International recognition aside, down here the eventual decision on whether one's degree is recognised or not is on the employer/HR.

I once had a chat with a HR person and he said they (his company) would usually value a candidate's skillset, attitude and "fit" into the organisation. The degree criterion is just to fulfil the requirement for the position. On the other hand, I do know of some places where they value the paper first before anything else.

 

[Kyoji83]

I agree that degree is just a key to open to another door of possibilities.

If an organization value a candidate's skillset, attitude and "fit" into the organisation which make the degree criterion is just to fulfil the requirement for the position, all the best for interviewees to secure that position.

If an organization value the paper first before anything else, changes you be replace by someone who is better & maybe cheaper. If can, avoid that organization.

Regardless of UOL or other University graduate, you should deserve a clap that you make it happen when the full time pubic education close down at you or your family like your parent did not make it. The most important thing is you have success to gradate with a degree after so many hardship.

Hmmm....UOL-DL graduate here, and I must say I am a little bit hurt at the impressions of my alma mater.

Eventually, however, a degree is just a key to open to another door of possibilities. International recognition aside, down here the eventual decision on whether one's degree is recognised or not is on the employer/HR.

I once had a chat with a HR person and he said they (his company) would usually value a candidate's skillset, attitude and "fit" into the organisation. The degree criterion is just to fulfil the requirement for the position. On the other hand, I do know of some places where they value the paper first before anything else.

 

[Number_Theory123]

I agree that degree is just a key to open to another door of possibilities.

If an organization value a candidate's skillset, attitude and "fit" into the organisation which make the degree criterion is just to fulfil the requirement for the position, all the best for interviewees to secure that position.

If an organization value the paper first before anything else, changes you be replace by someone who is better & maybe cheaper. If can, avoid that organization.

Regardless of UOL or other University graduate, you should deserve a clap that you make it happen when the full time pubic education close down at you or your family like your parent did not make it. The most important thing is you have success to gradate with a degree after so many hardship.

Why u say like that sia.

 

[Kyoji83]

Sorry, it should be 'full time pubic education close door at you'.

Well, it is the true. At every level of our pubic education, if you fall from the top % from your cohort, you are out to workforce.

Why u say like that sia.

 

[Number_Theory123]

Sorry, it should be 'full time pubic education close door at you'.

Well, it is the true. At every level of our pubic education, if you fall from the top % from your cohort, you are out to workforce.

Public and not pubic.

Anyway, apart from the top percentage of the cohort(cream of the crop), whom enter our public universities or top universities overseas, the rest of the cohort, which forms the bulk of it are at least poly educated.

If you fall under the bottom 10% of the cohort(ITE) then it is a different matter here.

Basically, I'm asking why do you feel that our public education closes its door on its very own citizens?

Passes in all subjects at your PSLE and subsequent passes in all subjects at the GCE O Level and you would be armed with a Polytechnic Diploma. Obtaining 50 marks is deem to you as a criterion set too high?

You do not need to obtain grades of A or B to proceed on to the next level unless you are speaking about progressing on to local universities.

 

[Kyoji83]

Just to quote you few examples.

1) All EM3 students like me study Science for Primary School & was given tests & exams at School level however at National (PSLE) we are not given the option for Science Exam. This lead us to have lesser points which result top EM3 graduate can only enter NA steam while average EM3 graduate can only enter NT steam compare to our EM1 & EM2 peers.

2) Those who fail PSLE will enter 4 years ISC course at a Vocational Training Centre (Eg: Current Schools like Assumption Pathway School & NorthLight School) before they enter ITE for NITEC courses. Those who pass PSLE also enter 4 years NT GCE N course at Secondary School before they enter ITE for NITEC courses. So what benefits & motivation do those who pass PSLE & graduate with a NT GCE N when they force to enter ITE for NITEC courses with their peers who fail PSLE? Nothing at all.

3) Nitec is a 2 years course follow by Higher Nitec which is another 2 years course before you can enter Polytechnic for 3 years course. A NA GCE N graduate can have the option of enter directly to 2 years Higher Nitec course or 1 year polytechnic foundation programme (PFP) before they enter 3 years Polytechnic course while a NT GCE N graduate can only enter 2 years Nitec course. Why is there a discrimination between NT & NA in term of education advancement when MOE do not pay their NA GCE N graduate employee a higher salary compare to their NT GCE N graduate employee for the post of Management Support Officer (Non-Diploma) (previously known as Corporate Support Officer)?

These are the reasons why I say Singapore public education system is an unfair & prolong education system.

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To add on, it is not complicated for point 2 as I personally believe MOE do not even bother much to focus on these group of 'fail products'. Crest Secondary School is Singapore's first specialized school to specialize in NT curriculum after spending so many time & resource just to copy Vocational Training Centre (Eg: Current Schools like Assumption Pathway School & NorthLight School) & add in ISC curriculum apart from NT GCE N curriculum.

A1) If just cut & paste ISC curriculum, why is there a need to spend so many time & resource to form Crest Secondary School to be Singapore's first specialized school that specialize in NT curriculum? Just wayang for show only.

A2) Sec Sch (NT GCE N) is for PSLE graduate while Vocational Training Centre (ISC) is for PSLE failure or Sec Sch dropout which is consider a level lower compare to Sec Sch in Post Primary Education Path. Why spend so many time & resource to study & implement a lower standard curriculum to a higher level curriculum just to become less competent at Post Primary School education. Instead of helping the student to be more competent, they are doing more harm to them. Why? Just wayang for show to ignorant public who do not know much about lower level steam.

A3) As an Industry Trainer Certificate Holder from ITE, I understand how ITE education system work & the standard of each ITE qualification curriculum. An ISC will not help NT GCE N graduate to prepare for NITEC & will only affect ISC graduate to compete with NT GCE N graduate to secure a place in ITE for NITEC courses. Why can't Government & MOE have only 1 main stream which is GEC O & allow them to attend JC or Poly? Why can't Government & MOE bring up the competent of the student citizen such as equip them with a Poly Dip that allow one to become an Electrician or an Electrical Technician while an ITE Cert can only allow one to become an Electrician? Just wayang for show to ignorant public who do not know much about lower level steam.

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It is also not complicated for point 1 & 3 as I personally believe that the purpose of steaming is to cut off citizens who are not strong in academic from studying public education all the way to university with tuition subsidy by the Government.

In term of Electrical related jobs, an ITE graduate will become an Electrician (Worker Level) & a Poly Dip graduate will become an Electrical Technician (Team Leader/Supervisor Level) while a Degree graduate (Executive/Manager Level) will become an Electrical Engineer.

So what benefits the Government?

B1) Those who have poor GPA will not be able to progress to higher education. This allow Government to balance the supply of graduate to meet the demand of the market in hierarchy manner. Eg: 6 Electricians lead/ supervise by 2 Electrical Technicians & manage by 1 Electrical Engineer.

B2) Less degree graduates who are citizens to form riot in an educated & legal way to prevent Government from having a headache to solve their problem like low wages, high unemployment rate (More positions in blue collar jobs compare to white collar jobs) & etc.

B3) In the event if you needs more Technician or Engineer, you can always get foreigners to fill up the position & ask them to leave when you do not needs them without burden like citizens. Eg: If you needs foreigners to bring up the local universities ranking, just sponsor them free scholarship with goodies like free accommodation, free air tickets, allowance but without bond. If you want more goodies like free trade agreement from other country government by solving their problem which is their citizen ratio for seats in tertiary education & employment places by giving them free scholarship with goodies like free accommodation, free air tickets, allowance but with bond to work in our country for few years.

B4) Save cost on tuition subsidy in order for them to invest or sponsor foreigners free scholarship with goodies like free accommodation, free air tickets, allowance & etc. NS for Singaporean & Benefits for Foreigners in Singapore which is the one & only country that benefits & welcome Foreigners over Citizens.

Public and not pubic.

Anyway, apart from the top percentage of the cohort(cream of the crop), whom enter our public universities or top universities overseas, the rest of the cohort, which forms the bulk of it are at least poly educated.

If you fall under the bottom 10% of the cohort(ITE) then it is a different matter here.

Basically, I'm asking why do you feel that our public education closes its door on its very own citizens?

Passes in all subjects at your PSLE and subsequent passes in all subjects at the GCE O Level and you would be armed with a Polytechnic Diploma. Obtaining 50 marks is deem to you as a criterion set too high?

You do not need to obtain grades of A or B to proceed on to the next level unless you are speaking about progressing on to local universities.

 

[Havok_ex]

My response to your opinions.
1)
I think EM1, 2 and 3 system is now abolished. However, at that time, MOE thought it was a good idea since most EM3 students could not cope with the extra science subjects. Might as well focus on lesser subjects to do better on those subjects rather than do all subjects and fail at everything.

2)
The motivation here comes from the fact that a student who enter secondary school at NT level would be given a chance to cross over to NA followed by express if they excel at their current subjects. I've seen a few of my friends do this.

3)
Look at it this way, if they did discriminate, at NT grad wouldve gotten a lower salary. Would that be helpful in any way? No. Why the difference in number of years in ITE is due to syllabus difference between NA and NT. An NA student would have learnt things that are more closely related to O level than an NT student. This means an NA student would not have to spend a longer time than an NT student to get qualified for poly.

That said, I do know of people who went from sec4NT>NITEC>Higher NITEC>Poly>NS and are gonna get a degree soon. Sure its long. However, with the right motivation and perseverance, they eventually make it there.

A2) Why spend so many time & resource to study & implement a lower standard curriculum to a higher level curriculum just to become less competent at Post Primary School education.

A3) Why can't Government & MOE have only 1 main stream which is GEC O & allow them to attend JC or Poly?

You have to admit, that some students are late-bloomers. Can the MOE lump all students together in one system such as the O-levels? Yes, they definitely can. But the O-levels work on a bell-curve, every year, there will always a proportion of students that WILL fail and it is likely that the current NT and NA students will drown as well if you throw them off the deep end. A teacher can only go so far in his or her teaching skills. If a student is a slow-learner or if he/she is just not smart enough to understand concepts, there is not much a teacher can do. These people will just end up failing and repeating and will never get into a JC or Poly. And a person who goes into a workforce with and O level cert is USELESS. a person who goes in with a NITEC cert is much more valuable as that person has skills that can be put to use.

Trust me, if the government were to lump everyone into the O level stream, you will end up with the bottom 20% not being able to go anywhere after O levels.

In conclusion, I believe that there are opportunities still for an NT or NA student to cross into the express O level stream. If the student is smart, determined and works hard for it, definitely can do it. However, the problem here lies that when kids are in sec 1 and 2, they dont usually think about their future.

 

[Number_Theory123]

2) Those who fail PSLE will enter 4 years ISC course at a Vocational Training Centre (Eg: Current Schools like Assumption Pathway School & NorthLight School) before they enter ITE for NITEC courses. Those who pass PSLE also enter 4 years NT GCE N course at Secondary School before they enter ITE for NITEC courses. So what benefits & motivation do those who pass PSLE & graduate with a NT GCE N when they force to enter ITE for NITEC courses with their peers who fail PSLE? Nothing at all.

The reason why u are in NT N levels I suppose is because u didn't manage to pass the 4 main subjects at PSLE or primary 4 streaming exams?

Am I right?

You just need to obtain 50 marks which is merely a pass and you will not be in NT N levels right?

Maybe I think you are quite right to say that judging a kid's ability at pri 4 or pri 6 is not a very positive thing to do so as during that age, all kids only think of playing. Who cares about passing the exams.

But still, you just need to pass and obtain a 50 only leh.

Why u say they deny u sia.

I mean u go take a driving test and u didn't get below 20 points, you fail u don't get your driving license and that's that mar.

Pls don't tell me that you were denied a chance to get your driving license pls.

Do you get what I mean?

Secondly, maybe u are quite right to say that there is no motivation to do well during ur N levels as you will still be stream into ITE even if you get 100 marks for your exams.

But, you go ITE then work hard and go Poly lor.

Is ITE very difficult? I don't know.

Or, during your NT N levels secondary school days. Still can get promoted to NA right?

Anyway I get your point lah...basically if u fail ur PSLE or pri 4 streaming exams which the kid is only like 12, from the government point of view, it is abit too early to decide anything.

But still, they fail the exams.

So they proceed on to a school where an easier syllabus is taught to them instead of struggling to pass O levels this time round.

Kyoji pls note that there are pathway for NT N level students and ITE students to get back to O levels and Poly ok? Chill.

 

[Kyoji83]

My response to your opinions.

1)
EM1, EM2 & EM3 stream have been replaced by Standard (EM1 & EM2) & Foundation stream (EM3). As a EM3/Foundation graduate, I dare say nothing have change apart from name for EM3/Foundation graduate stream.

As for your comment regrading "However, at that time, MOE thought it was a good idea since most EM3 students could not cope with the extra science subjects. Might as well focus on lesser subjects to do better on those subjects rather than do all subjects and fail at everything.", my classmates & I learn Science in Pri 5 & 6 in EM3 & given tests & exams at School level. If Govt & MOE scare we cannot cope with the extra science subject, why teach us or even give us tests & exams at school level in the first place? By the way, I pass all my subjects in Pri 5 & 6 Tests, Exams & PSLE.

2)
Yes but is the information available to students & parents? Does the teachers & principals encourage the parents or even the students themselves to move up to NA from NT? Does the teachers & principals allow students to be promoted to NA from NT? These are the factors that prevent us from happening.

3)
Govt & MOE are discriminate at NT GCE N because the salary will be different if the education level is different. For example, ITE qualification. Why don't public sector pay Higher Nitec & Nitec the same salary? Because it is not the same education level.

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Given the 2 options below, which will you choice?

Options 1: GCE O -> Fail -> Nitec/Higher Nitec or GCE O -> Pass -> Poly/JC.

Options 2: GCE N -> Pass -> Nitec.

I will choice option 1 because it provide me to become a more competent person in education. In the even if I fail very badly as GCE O graduate, I still can enter ITE for Nitec courses together with NT GCE N graduate so it is a low risk investment on my education part. If I only fail abit as GCE O graduate, I have better education path to enter Higher Nitec courses or even better I pass my GCE O & enter Poly Dip/JC. It is a win win situation to me.

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I think you misunderstand this sentence: A2) Why spend so many time & resource to study & implement a lower standard curriculum to a higher level curriculum just to become less competent at Post Primary School education.

ISC is for those who fail PSLE.
GCE N is for those who pass PSLE.
Why do Govt & MOE want to let NT students add in extra subjects to learn a 1 level lower education?

Now the standard is like you are studying a Degree course & your University add in extra modules at Nitec level into your course, how do you feel?

My response to your opinions.
1)
I think EM1, 2 and 3 system is now abolished. However, at that time, MOE thought it was a good idea since most EM3 students could not cope with the extra science subjects. Might as well focus on lesser subjects to do better on those subjects rather than do all subjects and fail at everything.

2)
The motivation here comes from the fact that a student who enter secondary school at NT level would be given a chance to cross over to NA followed by express if they excel at their current subjects. I've seen a few of my friends do this.

3)
Look at it this way, if they did discriminate, at NT grad wouldve gotten a lower salary. Would that be helpful in any way? No. Why the difference in number of years in ITE is due to syllabus difference between NA and NT. An NA student would have learnt things that are more closely related to O level than an NT student. This means an NA student would not have to spend a longer time than an NT student to get qualified for poly.

That said, I do know of people who went from sec4NT>NITEC>Higher NITEC>Poly>NS and are gonna get a degree soon. Sure its long. However, with the right motivation and perseverance, they eventually make it there.

A2) Why spend so many time & resource to study & implement a lower standard curriculum to a higher level curriculum just to become less competent at Post Primary School education.

A3) Why can't Government & MOE have only 1 main stream which is GEC O & allow them to attend JC or Poly?

You have to admit, that some students are late-bloomers. Can the MOE lump all students together in one system such as the O-levels? Yes, they definitely can. But the O-levels work on a bell-curve, every year, there will always a proportion of students that WILL fail and it is likely that the current NT and NA students will drown as well if you throw them off the deep end. A teacher can only go so far in his or her teaching skills. If a student is a slow-learner or if he/she is just not smart enough to understand concepts, there is not much a teacher can do. These people will just end up failing and repeating and will never get into a JC or Poly. And a person who goes into a workforce with and O level cert is USELESS. a person who goes in with a NITEC cert is much more valuable as that person has skills that can be put to use.

Trust me, if the government were to lump everyone into the O level stream, you will end up with the bottom 20% not being able to go anywhere after O levels.

In conclusion, I believe that there are opportunities still for an NT or NA student to cross into the express O level stream. If the student is smart, determined and works hard for it, definitely can do it. However, the problem here lies that when kids are in sec 1 and 2, they dont usually think about their future.

 

[Kyoji83]

The reason why u are in NT N levels I suppose is because u didn't manage to pass the 4 main subjects at PSLE or primary 4 streaming exams?

Am I right?

You just need to obtain 50 marks which is merely a pass and you will not be in NT N levels right?

Maybe I think you are quite right to say that judging a kid's ability at pri 4 or pri 6 is not a very positive thing to do so as during that age, all kids only think of playing. Who cares about passing the exams.

But still, you just need to pass and obtain a 50 only leh.

Why u say they deny u sia.

I mean u go take a driving test and u didn't get below 20 points, you fail u don't get your driving license and that's that mar.

Pls don't tell me that you were denied a chance to get your driving license pls.

Do you get what I mean?

I pass all my Pri 5 & 6 Tests, Exams & PSLE. I also pass all my Sec 1 to 4 Tests, Exams & NT GCE N.

I only did not pass 1 or 2 (Can't remember how many subjects but only remember very few) subjects at primary 4 streaming exams at the age of 10 years old.

However Govt & MOE force me to take up EM3 at Pri 5 & 6 but did not have any promotion opportunity at Pri 6 base on my Pri 5 result. They did not give me a fair ground to compete with for my PSLE as they shortchange me 1 subject in PSLE which affect the total results to enter Sec Sch steam.

Secondly, maybe u are quite right to say that there is no motivation to do well during ur N levels as you will still be stream into ITE even if you get 100 marks for your exams.

But, you go ITE then work hard and go Poly lor.

Is ITE very difficult? I don't know.

I am only told to pass my NTC-2(Nitec) & I can enter Poly but did not know there is 1 more level call ITC(Higher Nitec). Don't tell me to ask the lecturer cause GPA just started not long ago. Don't tell me to ask the school staffs when they still cannot function properly because it is a new ITE & it is merging with another ITE. Don't ask me to search internet as I cannot afford a computer with internet access cause it is very expensive.

Or, during your NT N levels secondary school days. Still can get promoted to NA right?

Problem is does the information available to students & parents? Does the teachers & principals encourage the parents or even the students themselves to move up to NA from NT? Does the teachers & principals allow students to be promoted to NA from NT? These are the factors that prevent us from happening.

Anyway I get your point lah...basically if u fail ur PSLE or pri 4 streaming exams which the kid is only like 12, from the government point of view, it is abit too early to decide anything.

But still, they fail the exams.

So they proceed on to a school where an easier syllabus is taught to them instead of struggling to pass O levels this time round.

Kyoji pls note that there are pathway for NT N level students and ITE students to get back to O levels and Poly ok? Chill.

1) I have studying GCE O modules using Sec4 Express/Sec 5 NA textbook & found out what I learn in NT is crap. We not not competent train which is the reason even a lot of my classmates go Private GCE O but fail. If I will to take GCE O, I needs another 4 years to be competent.

2) Do you know that current part time ITE Cert & Poly Dip is different standard compare to full time & will affect your advancement to higher education or have abit of losing end?

3) 4 years of Sec Sch (16 year old) + 2 years of Nitec (18 year old) + 2 years Higher Nitec (20 year old) + 3 years Poly Dip (23 year old) + 4 years Local Degree (27 year old) + 2 years full time NS = 29 year old.

4 years of Sec Sch aka Year 10 (16 year old) + 2 years of JC aka Year 12 (18 year old) + 4 years Local Degree (22 year old) + 2 years full time NS = 24 year old.

If I carry on with full time public education as NT GCE N student, I will graduate at the fastest age of 29 year old while my peer who is an Express GCE O student graduate at 24 year old & Foreigner (E-Pass holders & etc) graduate at 22 year old. How to compete jobs? I can only compete with those who are 5 to 7 years younger then me. This is a sad life I do not want to have & I will not want my children to have too. I will do what I can to prevent this crap education system happening to my children since I am more resourceful now. F MOE & Govt!

 

[jas_dance]

i guess the PSLE is too harsh for you.

once i was an O level student and i met a N level student while working part-time.

4-5 years down the road, she eventually finished her N level, O level, diploma and made it to NUS. On the other hand, i went to a JC and was denied a placing to any local uni due to bad grading.

The education system made it in such a way that once u fail at certain critical stage, you are gone. no second chance, you will have to walk a longer path.