Views personal accident plans

[brx1987]

which accident plans do you own?

I am currently comparing GE Essential Protector Plus Verus AXA Bands Aids

All 3rd Party POV are welcome! Please state if you own better personal accidents Plans!

 

[yoha03]

FWD, it's cheap and there is discount now

 

[Bigoya]

which accident plans do you own?

I am currently comparing GE Essential Protector Plus Verus AXA Bands Aids

All 3rd Party POV are welcome! Please state if you own better personal accidents Plans!

PA plans with Life Insurers are just expensive.
https://www.sompo.com.sg/docs/default-source/products-downloads/products/pa-star/pastar.pdf

 

[BBCWatcher]

And I don't understand the point. I know the insurance company cares a great deal how you become disabled -- because they want to collect premiums from you, write exclusions into the policy, and not pay claims. But do you care how you become disabled? Does it matter whether a bus runs you over ("accident") or you suffer from a stroke ("not accident")? No, it doesn't matter -- the outcome is the same, and your financial needs are the same.

What am I missing?

 

[Bigoya]

And I don't understand the point. I know the insurance company cares a great deal how you become disabled -- because they want to collect premiums from you, write exclusions into the policy, and not pay claims. But do you care how you become disabled? Does it matter whether a bus runs you over ("accident") or you suffer from a stroke ("not accident")? No, it doesn't matter -- the outcome is the same, and your financial needs are the same.

What am I missing?

And I don't understand your question.

 

[BBCWatcher]

And I don't understand your question.

What useful purpose for a policyholder does a personal accident insurance plan serve that would not be better served with disability income, long-term care, and/or medical insurance?

 

[Bigoya]

What useful purpose for a policyholder does a personal accident insurance plan serve that would not be better served with disability income, long-term care, and/or medical insurance?

That sounds like how agents fight for selling Whole Life over Term Life plans.

End of the day it's back to the opprtunity cost we are concerned of.
You want a better cover, u pay a higher price and loose a larger part of the cash flow to "invest the rest".

 

[BBCWatcher]

That sounds like how agents fight for selling Whole Life over Term Life plans.

No, that's not a great analogy.

You want a better cover, u pay a higher price and loose a larger part of the cash flow to "invest the rest".

I don't follow that logic at all.

Let's imagine, hypothetically, that an insurance company sells a product called "Tuesday disability insurance." The way it works is that, if you first become disabled on any Tuesday, then the policy will pay a monthly benefit for as long as the disability exists. If you first become disabled on any other day of the week, the policy doesn't pay anything.

So are you suggesting that it's better to buy Tuesday disability insurance and invest other money than it is to buy disability insurance that doesn't have this weird, ridiculous exclusion? I don't get it.

If the premium level is a concern, wouldn't it be better to buy broader coverage with a lower payout level than seriously limited coverage with a higher payout level? Most people are risk averse, and that would be the smarter play given that reality. Otherwise it's more akin to gambling.

 

[haileeyeow]

Maybe can consider AIA PA Solitaire. Covers insect bites (zika and dengue etc.). Pretty comprehensive.

 

[xtwis7]

Which do you value more? The permanent disability and death coverage or the minor expenses?

Maybe you can consider GE's new Great Protector also. In terms of comprehensiveness, Essential Protector Plus might be better but GP shines in the permanent disability payout which goes up to $3m.

which accident plans do you own?

I am currently comparing GE Essential Protector Plus Verus AXA Bands Aids

All 3rd Party POV are welcome! Please state if you own better personal accidents Plans!

 

[Bigoya]

Which do you value more? The permanent disability and death coverage or the minor expenses?

Maybe you can consider GE's new Great Protector also. In terms of comprehensiveness, Essential Protector Plus might be better but GP shines in the permanent disability payout which goes up to $3m.

Sounds great, does GP covers loss of use of 1 arm?

 

[haileeyeow]

it covers medical reimbursement on minor accidents (fall down etc.) as well.

 

[Bigoya]

No, that's not a great analogy.


I don't follow that logic at all.

Let's imagine, hypothetically, that an insurance company sells a product called "Tuesday disability insurance." The way it works is that, if you first become disabled on any Tuesday, then the policy will pay a monthly benefit for as long as the disability exists. If you first become disabled on any other day of the week, the policy doesn't pay anything.

So are you suggesting that it's better to buy Tuesday disability insurance and invest other money than it is to buy disability insurance that doesn't have this weird, ridiculous exclusion? I don't get it.

If the premium level is a concern, wouldn't it be better to buy broader coverage with a lower payout level than seriously limited coverage with a higher payout level? Most people are risk averse, and that would be the smarter play given that reality. Otherwise it's more akin to gambling.

So u're saying disability income and long-term care could provide perfect cover as long as you could afford it?

 

[windwaver]

What useful purpose for a policyholder does a personal accident insurance plan serve that would not be better served with disability income, long-term care, and/or medical insurance?

I know what you mean.

What's a good disability plan you can recommend?

 

[BBCWatcher]

What's a good disability plan you can recommend?

Well, there are four that I know about available in Singapore, and they typically cover until age 65. (Past that you would hopefully have retirement savings and annuities, medical insurance, and/or long-term care insurance, as applicable.) Three carriers in Singapore offer disability income insurance policies: Great Eastern ("Pay Assure"), Aviva ("IdealIncome"), and AIA ("Premier Disability Cover"). A fourth option, Clements International's disability income insurance, is available nearly worldwide (including to residents of Singapore), and they sell coverage from Lloyds of London. The Clements product is substantially different in its details from the three Singapore carrier options, and (as always) you have to read the fine print. But it's an interesting option for some.

But accident insurance need another hurdle - need to be accident + accident cause disability. So like no point buy both?

Yes, that's my point. The primary risk you're trying to defend against is disability -- the inability to work and to earn an income, plus the requirement for medical and other care. But "personal accident insurance" only pays benefits if the cause of your disability is on the policy list. It pays nothing if, for example, you suffer a stroke and cannot work. This makes no sense to me. What difference does it make how you became disabled? You cannot work, and you have the same needs.

OK, the argument is, "Well, personal accident insurance is cheaper, and it's better than nothing." Well, of course it should be cheaper! It doesn't pay very often. Accidents aren't common causes of disability -- not in Singapore anyway. "Mundane" causes, like stroke and dementia, are statistically more common.

Let's suppose you're trying to obtain a monthly payout of $3,500, and you compare personal accident insurance with disability income insurance. The latter will be more expensive, of course. It should be -- it's providing much better protection. And let's further suppose you cannot afford $3,500/month quality disability income insurance. OK, so does that mean you should buy the cheaper insurance that usually won't pay anything if you were to become disabled? I would argue no, probably not. The better option, in my view, is to buy $2,000/month of disability income insurance coverage, for example. That's not as much as you would like perhaps, but at least you get something if you suffer a stroke and cannot work. And that's how you can reduce the premium. You're still insured less than you would like, but this is a better way (if you must) to reduce your premium. It defends you better than being unable to work and receiving zero, simply because you happened to suffer a stroke (as one example).

Private insurance companies are always looking for ways to collect more premium dollars from you and pay nothing back. That's how they maximize profits. One of the very basic ways they do this is to write policy terms, like personal accident insurance policies, that tug on your heartstrings but (in fact) pay absolutely nothing for the most common causes of disability. Most people want to be protected no matter what the risks -- that's the ideal. They don't want to gamble at the casino. The more policy exclusions there are, the more casino-like your insurance policy is. And if an "insurance" policy isn't even defending against the most common risks, then, I would argue, we shouldn't even call it "insurance." We should call it something like, like a gimmick or a bad joke.

 

[brx1987]

Which do you value more? The permanent disability and death coverage or the minor expenses?

Maybe you can consider GE's new Great Protector also. In terms of comprehensiveness, Essential Protector Plus might be better but GP shines in the permanent disability payout which goes up to $3m.

sorry for the late reply, was on business trip.

The permanent disability is a good to have thing, as far as i am concern, I do not wish to have a permanent disability. Main purpose to for personal accident plan to cover medical cost, if i meet with some unfortunate mishap anywhere i.e walking on the road, exercising, etc.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Main purpose to for personal accident plan to cover medical cost, if i meet with some unfortunate mishap anywhere i.e walking on the road, exercising, etc.

So if you have a stroke (for example), then you don't want insurance to cover your medical costs?

Do doctors, hospitals, clinics, rehabilitation centers, pharmaceutical companies, nursing homes, and other medical providers charge less when the ailment is not the consequence of an "accident," as the insurance company defines the term?

 

[windwaver]

Well, there are four that I know about available in Singapore, and they typically cover until age 65. (Past that you would hopefully have retirement savings and annuities, medical insurance, and/or long-term care insurance, as applicable.) Three carriers in Singapore offer disability income insurance policies: Great Eastern ("Pay Assure"), Aviva ("IdealIncome"), and AIA ("Premier Disability Cover"). A fourth option, Clements International's disability income insurance, is available nearly worldwide (including to residents of Singapore), and they sell coverage from Lloyds of London. The Clements product is substantially different in its details from the three Singapore carrier options, and (as always) you have to read the fine print. But it's an interesting option for some.

Good point about disability income. Hey bro, how about then enhancing our ElderShield compared to buying a disability policy?

 

[anfielder]

sorry for the late reply, was on business trip.

The permanent disability is a good to have thing, as far as i am concern, I do not wish to have a permanent disability. Main purpose to for personal accident plan to cover medical cost, if i meet with some unfortunate mishap anywhere i.e walking on the road, exercising, etc.

That kind of minor mishap won't bankrupt you. Why not just self-insure and stash away a pot of money that can cover any unexpected expenses that might crop up in your life (and not just those from accidents)?

 

[BBCWatcher]

Hey bro, how about then enhancing our ElderShield compared to buying a disability policy?

ElderShield has some limitations. A major one is that the minimum entry age is 40. Also, the definition of "disability" is more narrow ("3 out of 6") than the definition in a typical disability income insurance policy. And ElderShield's maximum purchasable monthly benefit is rather low. There's also no inflation adjustment option for payouts. There's one advantage: if you pay premiums until age 65, you're covered for life. It's essentially long-term care (LTC) insurance.

The government is interested in improving ElderShield and is currently, as I write this, soliciting public comments.

Why not just self-insure and stash away a pot of money that can cover any unexpected expenses that might crop up in your life (and not just those from accidents)?

That's a great idea conceptually, but there really are risks that are difficult or impossible to self-insure against, especially if you're younger.