What 2.1 Speaker should replace a Razer Mako?

wwenze

Greater Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Messages
82,187
Reaction score
26,449
true. but i find the sub very zhor dang (very extra) :s13:

A good pair of bookshelves can hit 40 to 50 Hz. EQ gives another 10Hz lower or so. Active bookshelves don't give lower bass even with EQ, however.

Most music have little content below 40Hz so once your speakers hit that low, sub becomes optional unless for games and movies.
 

wwenze

Greater Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Messages
82,187
Reaction score
26,449
No idea :s13:

Edifier's specs do say it goes down to 50Hz (+-6dB) which is pretty decent at this size.

But iLoud achieves the same while being even smaller.
 

tkdboi

Master Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
4,071
Reaction score
318
consider Ruark MR1? even though it's 2.0 it's solid

Posted from PCWX using SM-F900F
 

wwenze

Greater Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Messages
82,187
Reaction score
26,449
Are you referring to the iloud or the A2+?

I'm thinking more of the name of the website :s13:

iLoud completely outclasses A2+ by winning in every aspect. Like bass, size, sound quality, bass, features, bass, does not gather dust as easily and A2's woofer is known to degrade with time, bass, and did I mention bass?

However iLoud also outclasses pretty much the entire industry of small speakers when it was released in ~2017. That's why the scene was taken by storm and there is no shortage of reviews. Googling found 3 reviews with measurements: noaudiophile, audiosciencereview (Not by Amir tho), and Digital Stereophony. Its contribution extends beyond sound quality; It is a good case study of what actually happens when you release a good product - The fame spreads very quickly and keeps on spreading. This is important info, because it tells us that other brands that have appeared for years yet have not caught on, are probably not the hidden treasure that they may appear to be.

To give an idea of how hard it owns the rest of the speakers, take a look at this

10 Desktop Computer Speaker Systems Tested and Compared
https://www.lifewire.com/desktop-computer-speaker-systems-3134570

Some pretty well-known models in the list including Audioengine A2+, Bose Companion 20, Gigaworks T40 Series II, Edifier Luna Eclipse, and some bigger speakers like AV40 and PSB Alpha PS1. The important ones for comparison are just A2+ and Companion 20. T40 isn't from the same price point, and Luna is a size bigger. But no harm reading how all these speakers measure.

A2+ has a hump at ~150Hz and starts losing bass from there.
Bose Companion 20 is the only small speaker with good bass performance, which also explains its dominance in the market. But the treble goes haywire due to cone breakup (No tweeter, so the woofer is trying to produce frequencies too high for it to handle).
T40 has similar bass as A2+, but poor crossover design results in uneven treble.
Luna / Eclipse bass performance is... somewhat ok, but remember it is also a bigger speaker. Also the treble looks like that. So unfortunately I can't recommend it.
The rest of the speakers better perform better since they are bigger. But notice they don't really perform that well. Heck, Bose seems to have the best bass extension out of all which shows why this brand has stuck around for so long despite all the haters it gets. (It also has horrible treble due to saving cost which also shows why it has all the haters.)

And for a long time, these were the best small speakers on the market. Because nobody could create something better. And since there was nothing better, people accepted these as the best. That's why people used Audioengine A2, people used Bose. They are not wrong with their choices.

And then suddenly we have iLoud that goes down flat to 50Hz.

While many small speakers are already starting to drop off at 100Hz.

To illustrate how significant this is: Our ears sense frequencies on a log scale. One octave = do re mi fa so re ti do = doubling of frequency. So from 10000Hz to 20000Hz is one octave. From 20Hz to 40Hz is also one octave.

And iLoud can produce one more octave compared to other small speakers, reaching 50Hz compared to 100Hz.

And it's not just about bass too. The treble is also done properly. Compare iLoud's treble to A2+'s treble which shows some weird dip. In fact, iLoud's overall performance can match some studio monitors, and fact is, iLoud is indeed marketed as studio monitors.

So basically,
- A small speaker
- That produces one more octave of bass than other small speakers
- Is properly designed to have the performance of studio monitors

It is not even a small gradual improvement over other small speakers, it is a big punch in the face. One big punch for the bass and a follow up for the treble.

- USD$299

I'm guessing they still have to fight against bigger monitor speakers, and for portable monitoring if they are too expensive people will just use worst-sounding but tolerable alternatives or slightly-bigger alternatives.

Audioengine A2+ costs ~USD$250-ish. In Singapore, iLoud is actually cheaper because we pay much more for certain USA brands for some reason.
 

Fatfool

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Messages
32,311
Reaction score
107
Are you referring to the iloud or the A2+?
The iLoud. Maybe I wasn't reading it right.

Anyway, I went to have a listen to my Sister's Audioengine A2.

Not impressed? There was always the background hiss that made me aware it was coming from a pair of speakers. There was a real discernible sweetspot as well. Maybe I've been used to the Razer Mako's non-directional sound.
 

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
26
The iLoud. Maybe I wasn't reading it right.

Anyway, I went to have a listen to my Sister's Audioengine A2.

Not impressed? There was always the background hiss that made me aware it was coming from a pair of speakers. There was a real discernible sweetspot as well. Maybe I've been used to the Razer Mako's non-directional sound.

I suppose you're saying the speaker directivity of A2 is bad? And I've heard active speakers tend to have higher audible hiss in general...

The KEF Egg sounds interesting with the support for subwoofer out connection. For the iLoud, you can hear it at Swee Lee Star Vista, hopefully it opens in June.

If non-directional sound, get Apple Homepod? Or Sonos.

The desk space is a issue with super wide or dual monitor setups. I use monitor arm and have my bookshelf speakers (horizontally placed) occupy the space below. You can consider getting a monitor platform to get more clearance underneath if you want to compromise less on speaker selection I suppose?
 
Last edited:

wwenze

Greater Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Messages
82,187
Reaction score
26,449
I use monitor arm and have my bookshelf speakers (horizontally placed) occupy the space below.

Two way speakers have limited directivity (or sweetspot) in the vertical axis. So if you put it sideways the limited directivity also goes sideways i.e. in the horizontal axis.
 

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
26
Two way speakers have limited directivity (or sweetspot) in the vertical axis. So if you put it sideways the limited directivity also goes sideways i.e. in the horizontal axis.

Yup, there's that issue. I did try normal upright placement by moving my monitors away, and at the end of the day, my ears don't pick up any noticeable difference, still solid stereo imaging. And the Dali speakers I have are known to have good wide directivity characteristics, so not much of an issue in real life. Have to work around the limited desk space.

If I have ribbon tweeter speakers, now that I'll have to be more careful, by most measurements vertical dispersion of ribbons quite bad....
 

Ark Law

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
11,574
Reaction score
533
katana knn no good for music :o

only good for movies and gaming.

i bot it and regretted. now using m50w. waiting for it to uplorry so i can change to Luna as i dun need a sub

My M50W fuse uplorry twice. Ownself replace fuse still alive. Hope it can last another 15 years :s13:
 

stupidog

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
22,676
Reaction score
9,569
before this m50w i was using katana and it's a shitty soundbar.

my Bose companion 20 uplorry that's why bought the katana.

sound wise. i think Bose companion 20 sound is quite good for it's size.

i haven't hear the actual iLoud and Luna yet.

where got this 2 speakers which i can go listen in singapore ?

worse to worse i will buy back Bose but a lot of places like no stock for it. :(
 

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
26
before this m50w i was using katana and it's a shitty soundbar.

my Bose companion 20 uplorry that's why bought the katana.

sound wise. i think Bose companion 20 sound is quite good for it's size.

i haven't hear the actual iLoud and Luna yet.

where got this 2 speakers which i can go listen in singapore ?

worse to worse i will buy back Bose but a lot of places like no stock for it. :(


You can find iLoud at Swee Lee Star Vista, not sure about their other branches...and not sure they allowed to open on June 1st or later...
 

Fatfool

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Messages
32,311
Reaction score
107
I suppose you're saying the speaker directivity of A2 is bad? And I've heard active speakers tend to have higher audible hiss in general...

The KEF Egg sounds interesting with the support for subwoofer out connection. For the iLoud, you can hear it at Swee Lee Star Vista, hopefully it opens in June.

If non-directional sound, get Apple Homepod? Or Sonos.

The desk space is a issue with super wide or dual monitor setups. I use monitor arm and have my bookshelf speakers (horizontally placed) occupy the space below. You can consider getting a monitor platform to get more clearance underneath if you want to compromise less on speaker selection I suppose?
Yes.

The directivity means there is such a tight sweetspot, it gets disconcerting once you move away from it.

The Razer Mako is an active speaker as well but there has been no hiss. I actually think Razer did quite well with the Mako back then. They apparently stopped making them as the cost of it was quite high and they weren't making money off it.

I like the KEF egg option as well (the KEF Egg Duo is more interesting)

I've not tried the homepod but I've been to hear the Sonos soundbars and..... yucks. why do people even pay top dollar for that stuff? The sound stage was tinny.

By the way, eventually, I couldn't find a soundbar that could even be decent against a 2.1 setup. Eventually I paid up for an denon amplifier and a wireless sub and just kept using my Focal Bird satellites for the living room. They aren't high end but they sure sound better than any soundbar.


Also, as for the Monitor stand clearance, I actually have no stand at all if you look closely at the picture. It's wall mounted.
 
Last edited:

Fatfool

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Messages
32,311
Reaction score
107
consider Ruark MR1? even though it's 2.0 it's solid

Posted from PCWX using SM-F900F
They look tiny. Where can I have a listen to them as I've not heard of this manufacturer before.
 

lxXXxl

Master Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
2,616
Reaction score
26
Yes.

The directivity means there is such a tight sweetspot, it gets disconcerting once you move away from it.

The Razer Mako is an active speaker as well but there has been no hiss. I actually think Razer did quite well with the Mako back then. They apparently stopped making them as the cost of it was quite high and they weren't making money off it.

I like the KEF egg option as well (the KEF Egg Duo is more interesting)

I've not tried the homepod but I've been to hear the Sonos soundbars and..... yucks. why do people even pay top dollar for that stuff? The sound stage was tinny.

By the way, eventually, I couldn't find a soundbar that could even be decent against a 2.1 setup. Eventually I paid up for an denon amplifier and a wireless sub and just kept using my Focal Bird satellites for the living room. They aren't high end but they sure sound better than any soundbar.


Also, as for the Monitor stand clearance, I actually have no stand at all if you look closely at the picture. It's wall mounted.

Ah, I see. But the wall mount is height adjustable?

No, not suggesting the Sonos soundbars, they have proper speakers as well.

I know you mentioned you wanted actives, but just to muddy the waters :D
Another option is the Dali Fazon satellite speakers, prices not too bad, can place below your display. I haven't heard them though.

Fazon Mikro satellite (smaller of the satellites in Fazon series)
https://www.lazada.sg/products/dali...-speakers-one-pair-i165772664-s212888091.html

 
Last edited:
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards, Terms of Service and Member T&Cs for more information.
Top