Will minimum wage laws work here?

[BBCWatcher]

5 out of the 6 countries have very VERY VERY few FT working there.
and i meant like 1 FT per 200 employee maybe

It depends on your definition of "foreign." EU/EEA/Swiss citizens, and their co-resident dependents, have the legal right to live and work in all 5 of those other countries not named Singapore. Moreover, those 5 have exceptionally strong, government-supported unions that set minimum wages (and for that matter set minimum rules and standards for other aspects of employment) for entire industries economy-wide. (That linked article alludes to how this works.)

 

[theMKR]

It depends on your definition of "foreign." EU/EEA/Swiss citizens, and their co-resident dependents, have the legal right to live and work in all 5 of those other countries not named Singapore. Moreover, those 5 have exceptionally strong, government-supported unions that set minimum wages (and for that matter set minimum rules and standards for other aspects of employment) for entire industries economy-wide. (That linked article alludes to how this works.)

then why Singapore, which is vastly different from the 5. Is also successful?

So actually in general if the economy is doing well, it doesnt matter minimum wages or what not?

 

[BBCWatcher]

then why Singapore, which is vastly different from the 5. Is also successful?

We don't actually know if Singapore is successful or not with respect to fighting poverty, or at least how successful. This government does not set an official poverty line (that can be reviewed and debated), and since there's no poverty line there are no official statistics counting the number of individuals and households below the poverty line.

Minimum wage regulations are intended (and often help) the working poor, so poverty statistics are quite important to measure success. We simply don't know the reality, in detail anyway.

 

[lifeislonggamma]

What is the definition of 'feasible' in this current context?

If it is about whether such a policy can be implemented in the narrow technical sense, then the answer is in the affirmative.

Will it work?

That might depend on how the policy objective is defined.

Will it impede the effective allocation of resources?

That would depend on what 'resources' mean. Are people merely resources in the service of the economy?

And even if we accept the definition of people as resources, will the lack of a minimum wage lead companies to effectively deploy the people that they hire?

With regard to this point, I recall a ridiculous scene that I had witness several years ago at a work site where an electrical power switching station was being built. There were 6-7 foreign workers standing around, watching 1 other foreign worker operating a small excavator to dig a hold in the ground for the laying of power cables. And there was 1 supervisor there was well, talking on his mobile phone.

At a purely theoretical level, if a given minimum wage policy reflects the relative scarcity of workers (as appears to be the current case in Singapore), then it would lead to a capital-for-labour substitution, and with that comes the possibility of higher labour productivity. Whether the current policy of using immigration to augment the local labour force is an efficient use of resources is debatable, especially in light of the work practices in many local and foreign firms where many jobs currently in existence can be automated away.

 

[hindsight]

He doesn't currently favor raising the U.S. federal minimum wage, but he's not opposed to the current U.S. federal minimum wage either. He favors a big expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) since he thinks a much more generous EITC would be more effective in increasing take home pay for more low income workers.


That's a hypothesis, but there's lots of good empirical evidence now that, at reasonable minimum wage levels, it doesn't seem to be a problem in reality.

Buffet doesn't favour raising the federal mininum wage (which is only 7.25 and not exactly a living wage in the US) because minimum wage simply doesn't work. Setting a price floor below the equilibrium on labour has consequences, the most obvious drawback is a higher unemployment rate, most governments have given up on trying to mollycoddle its workers after the disastrous wage/price spiral in the 70/80s, it simply doesn't work. The only way to raise real wages over time is to increase productivity, messing with the free market and setting price floors never work, the communists would have been wildly successful if all it took was govt legislation.

Lots of aspects of our real economy don't exactly, precisely align with the relatively simple textbook models.

They are not supposed to align with real world circumstances because they are...models. In the real world there is no way to hold everything else constant while we observe 2 variables, but just because we cannot properly observe in the real world doesn't mean that the models are wrong. It just means that other variables (peculiar or unique to that economy) are also influencing the outcome. This is why we should not think that minimum wage works because we see positive outcomes in a few outliers (there are very few of them btw).

 

[cherry6]

We don't actually know if Singapore is successful or not with respect to fighting poverty, or at least how successful. This government does not set an official poverty line (that can be reviewed and debated), and since there's no poverty line there are no official statistics counting the number of individuals and households below the poverty line.

Minimum wage regulations are intended (and often help) the working poor, so poverty statistics are quite important to measure success. We simply don't know the reality, in detail anyway.

But we also KNOW that there is a wealth line (as opposed to poverty line), so the minimum wage of the poor can also be referenced as a percentage of the minimum wage of a cabinet minister, it could be at say 2% of the prime minister salary, which is USD$1.7 million, thus 2% of that amount would be USD$34,000 p.a.

https://amp.ibtimes.co.uk/singapore-pm-lee-hsien-loong-remains-highest-paid-country-leader-1-7m-annual-salary-1493952

 

[limster]

Buffet doesn't favour raising the federal mininum wage (which is only 7.25 and not exactly a living wage in the US) because minimum wage simply doesn't work.

Yup. if the free market is going to pay 7.25 or more anyway, then a 7.25 min wage won't distort the market, but then , neither is it very useful

In my mind, the country’s economic policies should have two main objectives. First, we should wish, in our rich society, for every person who is willing to work to receive income that will provide him or her a decent lifestyle. Second, any plan to do that should not distort our market system, the key element required for growth and prosperity.

That second goal crumbles in the face of any plan to sizably increase the minimum wage. I may wish to have all jobs pay at least $15 an hour. But that minimum would almost certainly reduce employment in a major way, crushing many workers possessing only basic skills. Smaller increases, though obviously welcome, will still leave many hardworking Americans mired in poverty.

-Warren Buffett: https://www.wsj.com/articles/better-than-raising-the-minimum-wage-1432249927

 

[d9_lives]

But we also KNOW that there is a wealth line (as opposed to poverty line), so the minimum wage of the poor can also be referenced as a percentage of the minimum wage of a cabinet minister, it could be at say 2% of the prime minister salary, which is USD$1.7 million, thus 2% of that amount would be USD$34,000 p.a.

https://amp.ibtimes.co.uk/singapore-pm-lee-hsien-loong-remains-highest-paid-country-leader-1-7m-annual-salary-1493952

Cherry6 is so salty...

 

[Merg91]

He should join opposition Tan Cheng Bock in coming GE.
Need not be a sour lime.
Once in opp sitting in Parliament, he can voice it &
make sure LHL gets 1/10 of what he is getting now.

Cherry6 is so salty...

 

[d9_lives]

He should join opposition Tan Cheng Bock in coming GE.
Need not be a sour lime.
Once in opp sitting in Parliament, he can voice it &
make sure LHL gets 1/10 of what he is getting now.

Some people are born losers but I wonder why thye keep the loser mentality?

https://beststory.technewsinchina.com/loser-equals-failed-life-no-you-can-reverse-it-c9a92733e215

 

[cherry6]

Cherry6 is so salty...

Give suggestion about method to benchmark u say salty.

U r hyper capitalist/ slave driver is it?

Or PAP fascist ah?

 

[Merg91]

Make him more salty.
https://blog.moneysmart.sg/career/ceo-salary-singapore/

Min-Liang Tan Razer $11.98 million.
This one sure make his eyes pop out.
Wonder why the major shareholders like Lee Hsien Yang, Li Ka Shing, Koh Boon Hwee, Wee Ee-chao, Robert and Michael Hartono & Vincent and Robin Tan don't object to his pay.

Razer share price is left only with HK$1.63 now (as low as HK $1) from its high of HK $4.31 <2 years after ipo.
If Singapore economy performs like that........

Meanwhile in USA....
https://www.investopedia.com/highest-paid-ceos-2019-4687532

 

[d9_lives]

Give suggestion about method to benchmark u say salty.

U r hyper capitalist/ slave driver is it?

Or PAP fascist ah?

You're a chronic complainer who constantly try tofind faults and hell bent on stirring up ****.

I have mixed feelings, mainly disgust and pity for losers like u.
Why don't u crawl back to your edmw hole?

 

[fzhfzh]

A country will prosper when people want to work hard to become the successful rich people they see. A country is in decline when more and more people start to become haters and just want to bring down people who are richer than them.

 

[theMKR]

But we also KNOW that there is a wealth line (as opposed to poverty line), so the minimum wage of the poor can also be referenced as a percentage of the minimum wage of a cabinet minister, it could be at say 2% of the prime minister salary, which is USD$1.7 million, thus 2% of that amount would be USD$34,000 p.a.

https://amp.ibtimes.co.uk/singapore-pm-lee-hsien-loong-remains-highest-paid-country-leader-1-7m-annual-salary-1493952

why 2%, why not 0.2%?

cannot just anyhow throw out 1 figure la.

in the US, the average CEO to medium employee pay ratio is 128:1

if we follow this ratio then it will be 1.7m USD / 128 = 13281.25 USD/PA

but that is for the US.

for china is about 2500? or 2000?

that would bring the figure to 680/PA and 850/PA respectively

 

[P R N D]

Look at S Korea. Govt raised minimum wages till many shops closed.

But then i support min wages cause no go school. Prefer $15 per hour.

Sent from Mercedes-Benz E250 using GAGT

 

[ftpofmpo]

there's a very strong lobby grp in sg, google empee heng (not the stroke heng guy), redas, pee-em go, letter... 2 decades ago... empee looking after residents, in this case, may be his concern in so far that the wealthy prop ppl are his reel constiuewyncy. pee-em go at that time gotta went public in order to settle conflit of intrest

 

[Mecisteus]

Give suggestion about method to benchmark u say salty.

U r hyper capitalist/ slave driver is it?

Or PAP fascist ah?

If LHL is not into politics, he could have easily earn more in the private sector like his brother.

Basically, non-elites who cannot make it privately are more willing to enter politics.

While the elites will try to go to private if the incentives in government office are not appealing enough.

 

[Merg91]

Many politicians love the power but not money.
A stroke or a nod affects millions.

Singapore is just a tiny red dot with a small pool of
talents.
I rather pay more.

 

[mummy1234]

Maybe if we link Ministers and civil servants pay to a happiness index for the citizens plus GDP, their pay can come down and then we will have more money to raise the salary of the lowest income group of citizens.