Will minimum wage laws work here?

[chech01]

its inevitable



or else our reliance on cheap workers will know no end


soon we will have more cheap "slaves" than any country in the world by population.

Better learn from the Aussies on how to pay blue-collar correctly

 

[Entry Level PC]

Lol big tech employees have lots of benefits and are paid well.

They are the least u have to worry about

I don't think they need to.

Google interns get $7k USD per month if you are selected out of thousands worldwide.

And the exposure to the technology, intelligence of colleagues you can bounce off too.

Cluster**** of near-genuises

I have friends in Google USA.
Reality is not as Rosy as what you think.

Apple, Google, and Facebook all Use the H-1B Visa Program
to get cheap **** from India to work at lower wage.

 

[Kaypohji]

Childcare already expensive... it’s government subsidy. But childcare givers like the teachers still earning pretty low... so not much demand to be a childcare teacher

Don’t know where the money goes to

There is childcare and already part time cleaners.

Bro ah Bro.
You fail to factor that with Min Wage, their cost will also ROCKET UP as well. You think they will accept Min Wage Only?


Asumming 8AM to 8PM.
12h.
Min Wage $10.
$120 a day
5x a Week.
$600 per week.
$2400 per month.

 

[Chromesthlesia]

I have friends in Google USA.
Reality is not as Rosy as what you think.

Apple, Google, and Facebook all Use the H-1B Visa Program
to get cheap **** from India to work at lower wage.

Ah the Indian conundrum.

Please elaborate.

 

[Entry Level PC]

Childcare already expensive... it’s government subsidy.

Sorry ah Socialism doesn't work.

 

[Chromesthlesia]

Andrew Yang fail already.
Univeral Basic Income cannot work until we have robots doing full automation.

A few country tried out selective Universal Basic Income experiment, in the end all closed.

Without full machine automation,
Universal Basic Income will just lead to increase in cost for everyone to offset the more expensive man power.

Well, for one, the world economic forums have the same idea and are exploring UBI https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/covid-19-universal-basic-income-social-inequality/

Urk the amount of idealism and 'naysayers' urkk in the article.

On the other hand, the math and pragmaticality of paying for UBI, say taking The States as an example. The FEDs are already printing monies. Where would the funds come from?

https://www.businessinsider.sg/yang-warren-universal-basic-income-idea-bad-2019-11

 

[Entry Level PC]

Ah the Indian conundrum.

Please elaborate.

Tech Companies in USA all abuse H1B Visa for cheaper foreign IT work from India.

Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft all outsource to India.
A company priority is to make profit, not care for their employees.

 

[Kaypohji]

Then how do you all propose narrowing the income gap?

And u guys think singapore is in a perfect or good state of economy now with its policy on foreigners and on labour ?

 

[Chromesthlesia]

Sorry ah Socialism doesn't work.

Socialism and Government subsidies are two different things..

https://www.economicsonline.co.uk/Competitive_markets/Subsidies.html

You can try reading this, see if u get it. These are being taught in diplomas, A levels and economics introductory courses in universities.

 

[PikaPika33]

In practice, too.


This problem is overblown. Many firms right now hiring low-wage workers do so because workers are so cheap. Minimum wage of $5 doesn't do much for most low-wage workers, who are earning that amount already anyway. People laid off due to minimum wage cost tightening are free to find other jobs, or can be given study credits or unemployment support while they reskill or upgrade.


How much higher? It's minimum wage. Maybe there's something wrong with our economy if we depend on hordes of low-paid workers so much that even something simple like minimum wage will kill us.


Come, let's get back to reality, shall we?
Current high cost of living is due to internal and external factors.

Internal:
1) parasitic quasi-government system of high direct and indirect rentals.
2) mass inflow of capital parked in Singapore.
3) mass inflow of foreign "talents" driving up consumer demand while supply has not kept up.

External:
1) repeated printing of USD aka quantitative easing.

sadly it does not

Minimum wages affect those on the bottom of the payroll, which does not affect most of us, directly anyway.

simple example to illustrate this.

(imaginary numbers)

A small shop owner can hire 2x works at $50 a day.
If the minimum wages is increase to $80 per day suddenly they can only afford to hire one worker. The budget does not come from nothing. Either they only hire one, or increase the price to cope with it, or the government subsidy which increases tax.

People who lose their cannot simply find another job if there is no jobs. Unemployment is an issue after all.

in the short term, yes it helps
in the long term, it only lead to inflation

 

[Entry Level PC]

Well, for one, the world economic forums have the same idea and are exploring UBI https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/covid-19-universal-basic-income-social-inequality/

Urk the amount of idealism and 'naysayers' urkk in the article.

On the other hand, the math and pragmaticality of paying for UBI, say from USA. The FEDs are already printing monies. Where would the funds come from?

https://www.businessinsider.sg/yang-warren-universal-basic-income-idea-bad-2019-11

The FEDs are already printing monies. Where would the funds come from?

24 Trillion USD Debt Fake One ah?


If one day USD lose dominance as reserve currency...

 

[mp4005 help]

Then how do you all propose narrowing the income gap?

And u guys think singapore is in a perfect or good state of economy now with its policy on foreigners and on labour ?

is there a need to?

there is no perfect system anywhere in the world. Every system has pros and cons.

 

[ftpofmpo]

Then how do you all propose narrowing the income gap?

ask former economics tutor lim chong yah

 

[Chromesthlesia]

The FEDs are already printing monies. Where would the funds come from?

24 Trillion USD Debt Fake One ah?


If one day USD lose dominance as reserve currency...

Yeah the amount of debt that USD owes is astounding.

But maybe need to compare countries for scale for comparability. Yes, the States is the heartbeat of every countries currency ; sorry i like to use metaphors. Bear with me. The dominance as the foreign reserves bonds with China and the States is another interesting matter, yet to do more research.

That's why I say that UBI is a lovely idea, just hard to carry out.

 

[PikaPika33]

When productivity increase, they will ultimately hire lesser people...

So right now I feel singapore is like at the stage of cheap labor and low productivity.
Same as China manufacturing state. Produce low cost products but a lot of defects and fakes.

When I say they hire lesser people, I mean to stop relying on foreign labors. So singapore will self suffice.

have to improve together as a nation.
which is why they want to do away if the manufacturing last time.
but sadly some are left behind.

a few FT are needed, but not bringing whole village of fake FT

 

[frenchbriefs]

sadly it does not

Minimum wages affect those on the bottom of the payroll, which does not affect most of us, directly anyway.

simple example to illustrate this.

(imaginary numbers)

A small shop owner can hire 2x works at $50 a day.
If the minimum wages is increase to $80 per day suddenly they can only afford to hire one worker. The budget does not come from nothing. Either they only hire one, or increase the price to cope with it, or the government subsidy which increases tax.

People who lose their cannot simply find another job if there is no jobs. Unemployment is an issue after all.

in the short term, yes it helps
in the long term, it only lead to inflation

It kinda does affect all of us....if the lowest echelon bottom 25% get a wage increase to $14 an HR....the next echelon will see an increase in wage too,otherwise they can't be earning less or equal to bottom 25%....or everyone will just do min wage jobs,then this will roll over to the next 25% like a domino effect.

Obviously the wage increase will be passed on to consumers.

 

[Entry Level PC]

have to improve together as a nation.
which is why they want to do away if the manufacturing last time.
but sadly some are left behind.

a few FT are needed, but not bringing whole village of fake FT

a few FT are needed, but not bringing whole village of fake FT

What to do.
Sinkie pwn Sinkie.
FT help FT.
Sinkie love to pwn fellow Sinkie.

 

[Chromesthlesia]

Then how do you all propose narrowing the income gap?

And u guys think singapore is in a perfect or good state of economy now with its policy on foreigners and on labour ?

1) Short-term MUBI.

NMP Associate Prof Walter proposed Majulah Universal Basic Income Scheme (MUBI) at $ $110 a week for 12 weeks. This will be considered taxable income and cost $4.62 billion.

https://www.straitstimes.com/politi...-basic-income-scheme-to-help-singaporeans-get

It's proposed to be funded from future taxes (not sure if they would see the reserves gain)

2a). Unemployment Insurance funded by private or public There's another interesting concept of unemployment insurance with MP Mdm Sylvia has proposed, or several years back, they have proposed these as well.

https://www.todayonline.com/singapo...nce-help-retrenched-older-workers-has-serious

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.co...s-unemployment-insurance-proposal-215317.aspx

Previous response on unemployment insurance: https://www.straitstimes.com/singap...we-have-is-better-than-unemployment-insurance

It is a unique perspective of unemployment insurance, which

- targetted at PMETS, which targets to provide an additional safety nets, on top of existing government policies.

Personally, I feel that their idea is excellent and the execution of the research done with facts and figures, is an interesting concept. If it were funded by private companies willing to probably take up the underwriting and statistics, it would be an interesting idea.



The thing about UBI , is that it simply pushes the inequality level upwards (hypothetically) and inflates existing essential goods.

Example, to base off ComCare / Workfare incomes, the presuming basic level of income would be say, $1,300 per month.

If everybody in the country gets $200+ per month, does this mean that the new base level would be $1,500 per month?

Since the wages of income of say, food and essential workers has risen, businesses bearing the bulk of it would simply pass on the costs to consumers, leading to an upward spiral.


How about the government feed it? Sure, let's see what China's social security fund:

The elderly in China do not work. It is shameful for Chinese nationals to come over to Singapore to see elderly citizens working as cleaners etc. :

has a two-tier pension system, consisting of a basic pension and a mandatory employee contribution to a second-tier plan. It covers urban workers and many of the parameters depend on province-wide (rather than national) average earnings.

China's pension system by the worldbank: http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/967081468261926761/pdf/Chinas-pension-system-a-vision.pdf

A bit too long for me to read, maybe another day.

What if the elderly citizens had funds paid by the government to target the poorest? Do they give to all - or just the poorest? What funds are required?

The equivalent answer would be Silver Support Scheme, which is expected to rise its criteria and payout amounts in 2020.


2)b) HK says not to follow SG's pension model: http://theindependent.sg/scmp-to-hk-govt-dont-follow-singapores-cpf-system/

https://www.scmp.com/business/globa...pores-pension-fund-not-model-hong-kong-follow

Interesting.


You are right about the FW reliance situation, ageing population and this lack of entrepreneur situation, which I believe, the government is worried about and rightly so. In 2030,

of the population would be 65 years old and above.



Economics requires a lot of intense research and mathematics to delve into the cost of the plan. Perhaps more interestingly, required more intensive work and I go study more intensively then answer you.

TL;DR a) unemployment insurance b) short-term ubi or short-term grants like the budget etc., if the 2020 coronavirus depression effects are far more insidious and long-reaching effects

 

[CSNation]

I doubt Andrew Yang can pull off if he seen USA real reserve value

So much debt
Probably no money inside treasury

Ask fed to print

He can usher closer ties with China and make USA rich again

Sent from my Toilet Bowl using GAGT

 

[spinning_quirK]

Agree with you.

But government has never given us a proper analysis of why they think minimum wage don’t work.

Maybe they think no point explaining to us so much?

No need.

The "minimum wage leads to greater unemployment" is taught in basic economics by the time a student reaches A Levels.


But when teaching economics, every single textbook opens with the warning "ceteris paribus" -- "all else kept unchanged".


Minimum wage if applied to some over-simplified, market-driven, capitalistic utopia with an uncaring government that doesn't place a safety net will definitely cause more unemployment. But which country is like that nowadays other than those losers and pariahs you see in the news?


Furthermore, does "minimum wage" mean you must die die apply only 1 universal number across all wage sectors? No, right?

The only problem with minimum wage is social, not economical. If your country has too many lepak kings who take the extra cash to buy cigarettes, to zhng their bikes and cars illegally and create nuisance, to reduce their productivity, to make more babies without careful planning but yet never spend time raising their kids properly......... maybe this is the hard truth that population planners are trying to avoid....