Will minimum wage laws work here?

[Dark.Horizon]

The foreign work force an be categorised in three main groups:

Skilled professionals (e.g. software engineers, doctors, R&D specialists etc.) who are issued an Employment Pass.
Semi-skilled professionals (e.g. technicians, chefs, administrative professionals) who are issued the S Pass.
Unskilled Professionals (e.g. construction workers, domestic help) who are issued a work permit, also known as R Pass.


S Pass
The S Pass allows mid-level skilled staff to work in Singapore. Candidates need to earn at least $2,200 a month and have the relevant qualifications and work experience.

S Pass quota and levy requirements
The number of S Pass holders you can hire is limited by a quota. You must also pay a monthly levy for these workers.

Basic/Tier 1 Up to 10% of the total workforce $315
Tier 2 Above 10% to 15% of the total workforce $550




Hiring the china chef is more EXPENSIVE than hiring your friend.
Your friend must be maggie mee chef.

Who is to check? Do we have the time and manpower to check all companies? The hr can submit $2200 ,pay the cpf for the stipulated 2200, but pay wages lower than that. Its called loopholes.

Sent from A Singaporean Son using GAGT

 

[mocax]

how come got so many experts and analysts around but nobody create a simulation program that calculates and predict de impact of minimum wage on de economy?

can put many different parameters like the min wage itself, de date range, number of ppl qualifying for min wage vs those above min wage, etc etc....

nowadays got so many supercomputer dun tell moi nid 50 man years to calculate....

 

[fox1]

Who is to check? Do we have the time and manpower to check all companies? The hr can submit $2200 ,pay the cpf for the stipulated 2200, but pay wages lower than that. Its called loopholes.

Paying the salary of S Pass holders
You will need to pay S Pass holders using electronic methods such as GIRO and funds transfers.

Requirements for paying salary

If you employ S Pass holders, you need to:

Pay their salaries electronically.
Start electronic payments within 3 months after the S Pass is issued.
Maintain a record of the salary payments.


I understand your next argument will be that the foreigner will be asked to return the money in cash.
Is that right?

Does the foreigner also need to return the S Pass levy?
Return to HR or accounts dept?

 

[toolbox03]

The foreign work force an be categorised in three main groups:

Skilled professionals (e.g. software engineers, doctors, R&D specialists etc.) who are issued an Employment Pass.
Semi-skilled professionals (e.g. technicians, chefs, administrative professionals) who are issued the S Pass.
Unskilled Professionals (e.g. construction workers, domestic help) who are issued a work permit, also known as R Pass.


S Pass
The S Pass allows mid-level skilled staff to work in Singapore. Candidates need to earn at least $2,200 a month and have the relevant qualifications and work experience.

S Pass quota and levy requirements
The number of S Pass holders you can hire is limited by a quota. You must also pay a monthly levy for these workers.

Basic/Tier 1 Up to 10% of the total workforce $315
Tier 2 Above 10% to 15% of the total workforce $550




Hiring the china chef is more EXPENSIVE than hiring your friend.
Your friend must be maggie mee chef.

Now here comes the thing about levy, who benefit from these levies? Double edged sword, all the more the floodgate is open!

 

[fox1]

Now here comes the thing about levy, who benefit from these levies? Double edged sword, all the more the floodgate is open!

So does the levy make that foreign chef cheaper or more expensive to hire than the local?
Remember, the story was local chef was hired for $1600 but was subsequently rejected because there was a China chef for $1400.

a friend of mine who is a chef apply for a position as a cook in a restuarant and the employer offered him $1600 and my friend accepted it. the next day b4 my friend wanted to start work, the boss found another chef from china who is willing to accept the job for $1400 who do you think got the job in the end ???

 

[bakuten]

how come got so many experts and analysts around but nobody create a simulation program that calculates and predict de impact of minimum wage on de economy?

can put many different parameters like the min wage itself, de date range, number of ppl qualifying for min wage vs those above min wage, etc etc....

nowadays got so many supercomputer dun tell moi nid 50 man years to calculate....

coz people react differently.

how can you make a program to predict something that has random results?

this is the failure of modern keynesianism economics. it treats people as a fixed object that reacts exactly the way they want them to....
they try to calculate things that cannot be calculated....hence any "solutions" the govt scholars who studied this form of economics comes up with will NEVER work.

 

[toolbox03]

So does the levy make that foreign chef cheaper or more expensive to hire than the local?
Remember, the story was local chef was hired for $1600 but was subsequently rejected because there was a China chef for $1400.

If you have spoken to business owners before, their mindset is sg workers is not as hardworking as their foreign counterparts

 

[fox1]

If you have spoken to business owners before, their mindset is sg workers is not as hardworking as their foreign counterparts

Does it have anything to do with minimum wage or S Pass levy?
Why do you bring it up and avoid the question?

 

[toolbox03]

So does the levy make that foreign chef cheaper or more expensive to hire than the local?
Remember, the story was local chef was hired for $1600 but was subsequently rejected because there was a China chef for $1400.

If you have spoken to business owners before, their mindset is sg workers is not as hardworking, more fussy than their foreign counterparts though more expensive they will still hire them, this was started by the late lky

However foreign talent has no loyalty to the company, their main purpose is to make enough and return back to their country. If the company want to really save cost, they should hire locals cos at the end of the day the local is rooted to the country but not the foreign talent

 

[bakuten]

If you have spoken to business owners before, their mindset is sg workers is not as hardworking as their foreign counterparts

yet the overall productivity shows that the higher influx of FTs have led to lower productivity over the past 10 years. What does it mean?

it shows that these hardworking FTs....may not be more productive than their supposedly "lazy" sinkie counterparts.

remember....
lazy people will find ways to simplify work processes that increase productivity.

lazy people came up with the calculator so you dont have to count using ur fingers or a piece of paper.

lazy people came up with scripting so that mundane computer jobs can be automated.

low-skilled hardworking people will try to extract 10 documents that take 10hrs of physical sifting through....while maybe the lazy bugger just double click on the script and be done with it.

so...yeah....FT maybe more hardworking....but the lazy guy is more productive.

 

[mocax]

got what random variable can be affected by tuning minimum wage?

coz people react differently.

how can you make a program to predict something that has random results?

this is the failure of modern keynesianism economics. it treats people as a fixed object that reacts exactly the way they want them to....
they try to calculate things that cannot be calculated....hence any "solutions" the govt scholars who studied this form of economics comes up with will NEVER work.

 

[Rokusaburo]

actually min wage is a good idea

If got min wage, will form a union of SME and small MNC companies that advocate hiring of all degree holders at minimum wage. (and preach the benefits of it)

 

[fox1]

got what random variable can be affected by tuning minimum wage?

Responses on forums like EDMW.
Also random variable like why people who think they are so good in policies are on EDMW, not standing for election.

 

[vinn]

Responses on forums like EDMW.
Also random variable like why people who think they are so good in policies are on EDMW, not standing for election.

eh u knn damn cheespies.
so u mean we mere mortals r suppose to sit ard and let a handful of elites decide our fate?
we cant comment?

 

[fox1]

eh u knn damn cheespies.
so u mean we mere mortals r suppose to sit ard and let a handful of elites decide our fate?
we cant comment?

Whoever said mere mortals cannot comment?
I was referring to people who are good at policies online but not standing for election.

I, for one, am not good at policies.
How about you?

 

[toolbox03]

yet the overall productivity shows that the higher influx of FTs have led to lower productivity over the past 10 years. What does it mean?

it shows that these hardworking FTs....may not be more productive than their supposedly "lazy" sinkie counterparts.

remember....
lazy people will find ways to simplify work processes that increase productivity.

lazy people came up with the calculator so you dont have to count using ur fingers or a piece of paper.

lazy people came up with scripting so that mundane computer jobs can be automated.

low-skilled hardworking people will try to extract 10 documents that take 10hrs of physical sifting through....while maybe the lazy bugger just double click on the script and be done with it.

so...yeah....FT maybe more hardworking....but the lazy guy is more productive.

You already mention higher influx = higher supply = depressed wages = diluted quality which is why they should calibrate according to market needs, not open freely.

As for lazy people, there are 2 types: lazy and smart or lazy and stupid according to this: http://www.businessinsider.sg/why-clever-and-lazy-people-become-leaders-2014-3

 

[overman]

So does the levy make that foreign chef cheaper or more expensive to hire than the local?
Remember, the story was local chef was hired for $1600 but was subsequently rejected because there was a China chef for $1400.

Singapore case must also include CPF mah. 1600 lets say lar below 50 yrs old. So total bill is $1856

China case is 1400 plus levy.
But hor must see skilled bo. In china's case a diploma can qualify as skilled liao. Also must take into account foreign worker % in the company.

So if tier 1 and skilled hor is slightly cheaper to hire the china cook. Tier 2 and skilled also a bit lower.

Oh ya forget to add haha. Sg guy must do NS reservist. So for like 1 to 2 weeks a year must headache find temp replacement.

Then hor i also tiagong some sg boss si bei chek ark one declare one figure for foreigner but pay another figure. Like this case below

Applicants for EPs or SPs must meet the minimum salary requirement. However, the accused persons knew that their employers would pay them less than the amounts declared. The accused persons thus made false declarations to MOM, when they signed declaration forms which indicated their salaries to be ranging from $2,400 to $4,550. Among the accused, 15 of them had worked less than a year in Singapore.

The 10 accused persons from Vina Trading pleaded guilty to the charges yesterday. Investigations revealed that these accused persons received their declared salaries from their employer, most of which were paid through GIRO. Subsequently, these accused persons had to withdraw cash ranging from $600 to $3,350, and return the monies to their employer.

ST journalist Radha Basu also writes hor

While covering foreign worker issues, I have been told time and again by workers and their advocates that despite grave abuses, many workers will not complain so long as the power balance between employer and employee remains skewed in the employer's favour. Some policies need tweaking to level the playing field.

Difficult to do this to sg worker haha.

 

[bakuten]

You already mention higher influx = higher supply = depressed wages = diluted quality which is why they should calibrate according to market needs, not open freely.

As for lazy people, there are 2 types: lazy and smart or lazy and stupid according to this: http://www.businessinsider.sg/why-clever-and-lazy-people-become-leaders-2014-3

for lazy and stupid ppl....no amount of "engineering" can help them until they decide to help themselves....thats the unfortunate truth.

im not for min wage....regardless of how much i dislike the way PAP is doing things.

the growing wage gap is a symptom of the cronyism & ever-growing govt that exist in our nation.

it is no coincidence that the wage gap growth coincided with the growth in our govt sector.

remember the days when govt sector jobs were shunned? nowadays people are looking at govt sector jobs as "iron ricebowl" jobs.


Govt cannot survive without taxation from the PTE sector.

Big govt = less people doing the producing in the PTE sector = more taxes required on PTE sector to feed the jiak liao bees working in govt now = less disposable $$ to pay PTE sector workers = wage gap growing.

 

[fox1]

Singapore case must also include CPF mah. 1600 lets say lar below 50 yrs old. So total bill is $1856

China case is 1400 plus levy.
But hor must see skilled bo. In china's case a diploma can qualify as skilled liao. Also must take into account foreign worker % in the company.

So if tier 1 and skilled hor is slightly cheaper to hire the china cook. Tier 2 and skilled also a bit lower.

Oh ya forget to add haha. Sg guy must do NS reservist. So for like 1 to 2 weeks a year must headache find temp replacement.

Then hor i also tiagong some sg boss si bei chek ark one declare one figure for foreigner but pay another figure. Like this case below

Applicants for EPs or SPs must meet the minimum salary requirement. However, the accused persons knew that their employers would pay them less than the amounts declared. The accused persons thus made false declarations to MOM, when they signed declaration forms which indicated their salaries to be ranging from $2,400 to $4,550. Among the accused, 15 of them had worked less than a year in Singapore.

The 10 accused persons from Vina Trading pleaded guilty to the charges yesterday. Investigations revealed that these accused persons received their declared salaries from their employer, most of which were paid through GIRO. Subsequently, these accused persons had to withdraw cash ranging from $600 to $3,350, and return the monies to their employer.

ST journalist Radha Basu also writes hor

While covering foreign worker issues, I have been told time and again by workers and their advocates that despite grave abuses, many workers will not complain so long as the power balance between employer and employee remains skewed in the employer's favour. Some policies need tweaking to level the playing field.

Difficult to do this to sg worker haha.

In order words, some one breaks into your home at night, it's gov fault?

Let me explain.
You seem to pin the blame on gov for companies breaking the law.
There is a law on housebreaking, someone breaks into your house, it's gov fault.

By the way, your numbers are old.
Time to refresh.

 

[gnoes85]

If u know u earning above min wage, why support?
Already well known for giving u chicken wing take back spring.